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root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 07/16/20 12:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Isn’t Delle Donne’s back injury related to playing for the Mystics? Even if it isn't, once Washington signed her to a new contract they became responsible for Delle Donne in whatever condition she was in. As far as I can tell, they have no choice but to put her on their roster -- that is unless she opts-out or refuses to report. It explains why Thibault was puzzled about Elena thinking she wouldn’t get paid. The most realistic scenario was always EDD getting paid one way or another. Provided Elena nominally agrees to report and the team gives her permission to rehab at home, then there is nothing exceptional about this situation. It is actually common practice for players with long-term injuries to leave the team and rehab at home. It’s just that most players come from places farther away, so they are allowed to return to their hometown. In this case, Elena wants to rehab at home even though she doesn’t live far from the Mystics’ facilities. The team seems okay with that. If Elena had received and accepted a medical opt-out, the team would gain a roster spot but she would be unavailable for the season. Now, at least, Thibault has some hope of sweet-talking Elena into returning for the playoffs.

As far as I can tell, the league never needed to intervene and it wasn't necessary for the Mystics to do anything extraordinary. It seems like this big fuss was created by Elena because she was confused about her options. Again, not a good look for a union officer who supposedly participated in negotiating the agreement.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Assuming the back injury is still keeping her 'out', yes they have to keep her and pay her. But if she was sufficiently recovered from that, and the League didn't grant her the medical exemption, not being in the bubble would be 'failing to report'. Y'know, if the Mystics wanted it to be.

But yes, for those of us who are well acquainted with the WNBA system, this was never likely to be a big deal in practice. But to those who are just hearing about it from outside, it was "Oh my god they think she's lying about her illness! They're forcing this poor sick girl to risk everything to get her money!"



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 1:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
myrtle wrote:
so...if this were Maya Moore speaking up, would you feel the same way about it? I mean seriously. We've just been going thru a (hopefully) change in culture which is about speaking up and demanding your rights. What others perceive as their rights and what you perceive as their rights may not of course be the same thing. Still, truthfully, if this were Maya Moore, would you feel the same way about it?


The way you have framed this question makes me feel like it's fair to ask whether you would feel the same way about this, if this were Blake Dietrick? Because the fact that Delle Donne is getting an exception that wouldn't even be considered for a player of lesser stature is kind of the actual point of the backlash.


Yeah, I think any player should be able to voice their opinion about such things. We can disagree with them, but I don't think name calling is appropriate. JMO



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 1:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Assuming the back injury is still keeping her 'out', yes they have to keep her and pay her. But if she was sufficiently recovered from that, and the League didn't grant her the medical exemption, not being in the bubble would be 'failing to report'. Y'know, if the Mystics wanted it to be.

But yes, for those of us who are well acquainted with the WNBA system, this was never likely to be a big deal in practice. But to those who are just hearing about it from outside, it was "Oh my god they think she's lying about her illness! They're forcing this poor sick girl to risk everything to get her money!"


Yeah, I guess the back injury is where the confusion comes in. Thibault has always acted like it was in play while Elena was focused on COVID-19. If the back really is a problem, then nothing extraordinary is going on here. However, if her back is fine, then the team really did step up to bail her out.



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stever



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 1:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The medical decision re: Charles must be coming soon, are we looking at shitstorm 2.0?



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 1:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
The medical decision re: Charles must be coming soon, are we looking at shitstorm 2.0?

I can't help feeling like some of these decisions have probably been made already, and it's just that no one's said anything. The Delle Donne stuff only emerged because she and her agent whined about it to two ESPN writers.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 2:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cambage's agent announced on July 4th that Liz wanted to medically opt-out. It's now 12 days later and I haven't seen anything -- has anyone else? So, either the process is really slow or people are keeping quiet.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 3:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
stever wrote:
The medical decision re: Charles must be coming soon, are we looking at shitstorm 2.0?

I can't help feeling like some of these decisions have probably been made already, and it's just that no one's said anything. The Delle Donne stuff only emerged because she and her agent whined about it to two ESPN writers.


"Whined" or "complained" or "talked about it." (Not saying Richyyy is wrong ...)

Word choice is everything, and it's why journalism can never be unbiased. Compare: "Loeffler said she's not a racist." "Loeffler claimed she's not a racist."

Or "whined" vs. "talked about it" ...



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Shades



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 3:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rVaI_-G8Nd0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A real journalist Poppy Harlow killed two birds with one interview with WNBA commish.
Starts out talking about the Delle Donne issue, and finishes with Loeffler issue @4:45.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 3:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Cambage's agent announced on July 4th that Liz wanted to medically opt-out. It's now 12 days later and I haven't seen anything -- has anyone else? So, either the process is really slow or people are keeping quiet.

No, but based on actual public information the Aces have had an illegal 13-player roster since signing Warley-Talbert (again) nearly two weeks ago. The league's Transactions page says she was signed to a 'Regular Contract' (which isn't actually a thing, so god knows what they meant).

As usual, this league's information providing is an absolute joke.



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Cooper2009



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 3:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rVaI_-G8Nd0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A real journalist Poppy Harlow killed two birds with one interview with WNBA commish.
Starts out talking about the Delle Donne issue, and finishes with Loeffler issue @4:45.


Cathy said what needed to be said. #ByeLoeffler.



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Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 07/16/20 3:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
pilight wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
Because the fact that Delle Donne is getting an exception that wouldn't even be considered for a player of lesser stature is kind of the actual point of the backlash.


EDD isn't getting an exception


What part of Delle Donne getting her full salary under a circumstance that her union collectively bargained she shouldn't be eligible to get it doesn't sound like an exception, to you?

It's pretty common practice in this league when stars get injured. As mentioned earlier, Seattle did the same thing with Bird last season. Atlanta essentially did it with McCoughtry. Connecticut did it at least once with Chiney Ogwumike.


You realize that this corroborates what I said, more than it refutes it, right? Or are you guys conflating exception and exemption? Because if you want to say that they're not granting Delle Donne an exemption, I'll stipulate to that. But, to your other point, I absolutely believe that this wouldn't have happened for Kennedy Burke, or Blake Dietrick, or Paris Kea. It doesn't matter that an exception isn't only being made for Delle Donne; that isn't the standard. If there's a collectively bargained rule for how this thing should be handled, and the league is requiring role players to be in compliance with it, but not star players, there's nothing to call that but an exception.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 3:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Yeah, I think any player should be able to voice their opinion about such things. We can disagree with them, but I don't think name calling is appropriate. JMO


The hell does name calling have to do with anything? Did you legit gloss over the entire conversation the rest of us were having, because you took umbrage to Delle Donne being called "Elena Prima Donna"?



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Yeah, I think any player should be able to voice their opinion about such things. We can disagree with them, but I don't think name calling is appropriate. JMO


The hell does name calling have to do with anything? Did you legit gloss over the entire conversation the rest of us were having, because you took umbrage to Delle Donne being called "Elena Prima Donna"?


I won't bother going thru all the comments since reading them once is enough, but GWH definitely caught my eye. If she were black would she be called GBH? No. Didn't think so. Or her "entitlement" which I've mostly only seen attached to her and Parker. So it seems it's ok to label players like this if you don't like them in general even if it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I find that pretty juvenile. I don't particularly like EDD myself but I respect her game. And I have no problem with her speaking out about what she sees as a problem, even if I don't necessarily agree with her. In this case, I certainly would question what was going on in the medical boards' minds since it seems pretty easy to see she is medically fragile. And if they really didn't talk to her or her doctors, that seems like a pretty big miss.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 6:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:

The hell does name calling have to do with anything? Did you legit gloss over the entire conversation the rest of us were having, because you took umbrage to Delle Donne being called "Elena Prima Donna"?


I won't bother going thru all the comments since reading them once is enough, but GWH definitely caught my eye. If she were black would she be called GBH? No. Didn't think so. Or her "entitlement" which I've mostly only seen attached to her and Parker. So it seems it's ok to label players like this if you don't like them in general even if it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I find that pretty juvenile...


So, you really do think that the name calling is the most relevant part of this conversation? Aight, then...

And, by the way, "Great White Hope" is a term that originated in boxing, to describe the desire of a majority-white fanbase to see a white boxer beat the black champion in a previously white-dominated sport. The term has since come to be used to describe many other talented white players who are competing in a minority-dominated sport. Calling someone the "Great Black Hope" in a sport that is eighty percent black, already, and probably twelve of the fifteen best players in the league are also black, wouldn't even make any sense.

Let me know when you see someone unironically referring to PK Subban or Bubba Wallace as the Great Black Hope, and then maybe we can have a conversation about it. As it is, it's not a term that anybody would ever use in basketball, because it's not a term that could be applied to anybody.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 6:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ooop Laughing Laughing



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 07/16/20 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Yeah, I think any player should be able to voice their opinion about such things. We can disagree with them, but I don't think name calling is appropriate. JMO


The hell does name calling have to do with anything? Did you legit gloss over the entire conversation the rest of us were having, because you took umbrage to Delle Donne being called "Elena Prima Donna"?


I won't bother going thru all the comments since reading them once is enough, but GWH definitely caught my eye. If she were black would she be called GBH? No. Didn't think so. Or her "entitlement" which I've mostly only seen attached to her and Parker. So it seems it's ok to label players like this if you don't like them in general even if it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I find that pretty juvenile. I don't particularly like EDD myself but I respect her game. And I have no problem with her speaking out about what she sees as a problem, even if I don't necessarily agree with her. In this case, I certainly would question what was going on in the medical boards' minds since it seems pretty easy to see she is medically fragile. And if they really didn't talk to her or her doctors, that seems like a pretty big miss.


The whole point of an panel of independent doctors is just that, independence.

Again, that is what the players negotiated and agreed to.


Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 07/17/20 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:

The whole point of an panel of independent doctors is just that, independence.

Again, that is what the players negotiated and agreed to.


I think that the wildest thing about this whole situation to me might be that the strongest backlash to Delle Donne appears to be coming from hardcore WNBA fans. Her most vocal support seems to be coming from casuals, and non-fans.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 07/17/20 2:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
PUmatty wrote:

The whole point of an panel of independent doctors is just that, independence.

Again, that is what the players negotiated and agreed to.


I think that the wildest thing about this whole situation to me might be that the strongest backlash to Delle Donne appears to be coming from hardcore WNBA fans. Her most vocal support seems to be coming from casuals, and non-fans.

One could argue that's because WNBA fans have a more complete grasp of the situation, League and everything surrounding Delle Donne than the casual sports fans do.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 07/17/20 2:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Indeed.



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PostPosted: 07/17/20 5:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Charles is granted a paid medical opt-out for her “extrinsic asthma “.

Quote:
Extrinsic asthma occurs when the immune system overreacts to a harmless substance, such as pollen or dust. The body releases an antibody called immunoglobin E (IgE). The release of this antibody leads to inflammation and asthma symptoms.



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PostPosted: 07/17/20 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tina Charles receives exemption for extrinsic asthma. She writes powerfully about "I can't breathe."

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/tina-charles-wnba


wnbafan



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PostPosted: 07/17/20 5:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How are you putting fans in these buckets? Do you know all of them personally? How are you determining whether a fan is hardcore or casual?

I consider myself a hardcore fan and I believe they should have given her the medical exemption. I don't know for sure, but if Elena knew her back would keep her from playing, why would she file for an exemption for Lyme disease? Maybe she knows her back is good enough to play but she doesn't want to go to Florida, the new epicenter of Covid when she has a compromised immune system. Maybe Coach T provided the back rehab as an excuse to smooth this all over. Who knows all the details? Obviously none of us fans, so I am giving her the benefit of the doubt that she did not know she would get paid. Calling her a prima Donna is just nasty.

Btw, in her book she covers in great detail her search for a doctor who could help her. Many could not diagnose why she was getting sick. Her current doctor saved her.



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SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 07/17/20 5:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I support Elena and Tina. By the way it's none of your business that the Mystics are paying Elena without the Medical Opt Out.


toad455



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PostPosted: 07/17/20 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mystics forced to play with just ten this season with Delle Donne remaining on the roster as an IR.

PG: Mitchell/Peddy
SG: Atkins/Leslie
SF: Powers/Carson
PF: Meesseman/Hines-Allen
C: Hawkins/Coates
IR: Delle Donne



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