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Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 02/14/20 9:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
I’m assuming the key to all that extra sponsorship money is your team winning... like the Commissioner’s Cup and whatnot. So short term worrying about $30K/yr and reducing your team’s player assets in the future lessens your team’s ability to win. Not looking at the big picture.


I mean, Bonner is a made woman, in this league: 2 rings, 3x All-Star, 3x 6WOY. She's already a lock for Knoxville, and she's got a puncher's chance at Springfield. A third ring isn't going to make a difference to whether she gets in to the Naismith or not, so why the hell should she give any money back?

Quote:
If $215K was so important to her, she could have just stayed in PHX. It’s not like there’s no hope to win there playing with Griner. I mean, just look at PHX’s efforts to remain relevant after Bonner left. That’s what she left.


This presupposes, once again, that:
  1. Bonner wants a third ring more than she wants to get paid, and also
  2. Bonner wants to win more than she wanted the hell out of Phoenix.
Unless you have some insider information that you're holding back, we don't have any particular reason to believe either one of those things.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 9:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also, if Bonner stayed with Phoenix and got the max, Phoenix couldn't have brought in Hartley. So us Liberty fans thank Bonner for that move.



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 02/14/20 9:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
Shades wrote:
I’m assuming the key to all that extra sponsorship money is your team winning... like the Commissioner’s Cup and whatnot. So short term worrying about $30K/yr and reducing your team’s player assets in the future lessens your team’s ability to win. Not looking at the big picture.


I mean, Bonner is a made woman, in this league: 2 rings, 3x All-Star, 3x 6WOY. She's already a lock for Knoxville, and she's got a puncher's chance at Springfield. A third ring isn't going to make a difference to whether she gets in to the Naismith or not, so why the hell should she give any money back?


Not sure what you’re going on about. I was talking about the extra money players can win through sponsorships. The league touted that a player can make as much as $500,000 in a season. They haven’t laid out exactly how this money is made, but I’m guessing some of it revolves doing well in the Commissioner’s Cup. So if a player can make a large sum by being a part of a successful team, why worry about $30K a year?

Also, if you think the extra $30K/yr is the most important thing, she could have just stayed in Phoenix.

Silky Johnson wrote:
Shades wrote:
If $215K was so important to her, she could have just stayed in PHX. It’s not like there’s no hope to win there playing with Griner. I mean, just look at PHX’s efforts to remain relevant after Bonner left. That’s what she left.


This presupposes, once again, that:
  1. Bonner wants a third ring more than she wants to get paid, and also
  2. Bonner wants to win more than she wanted the hell out of Phoenix.
Unless you have some insider information that you're holding back, we don't have any particular reason to believe either one of those things.


What reason do you have to believe that she wanted out Phoenix for personal reasons?

I don’t have any insider information. I’m just somebody that makes observations and then tries to make sense out of those observations.

All my information is public.
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/28679305/sun-trade-three-1st-round-picks-mercury-sign-star-dewanna-bonner

Quote:
Bonner, 32, said in a statement that she is looking forward to helping Connecticut win its first title.

"I'm excited to play with this talented group and do whatever I can to help this organization hang its first championship banner," Bonner said in the statement. "Nothing is more important to me than winning."


Oops, that must be embarrassing.

It’s probably not literally true though, because she’s a cap space problem at $215K, which hurts the team’s ability to keep other important players, plus she needlessly cost her new team long term assets. So, that $30K/yr probably meant more to her than increasing the team’s potential to win. But maybe it’ll work out that she can have both. We’ll have to wait and see.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 10:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Connecticut loses Williams, Stricklen & Holmes, they won't have a bench. IMO, this cost them the title in 2019.



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WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 02/14/20 10:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It’s ok to make observations and assume but it’s not ok to force them on people as though they are facts. I appreciate the work you put In on this board shades but sometimes I don’t even think you realize how much of a ____ You can be if someone disagrees or has real information before your assumption. We’re all here bc we love the W lets love one another at the same time Cool Very Happy



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Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 02/14/20 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Not sure what you’re going on about. I was talking about the extra money players can win through sponsorships. The league touted that a player can make as much as $500,000 in a season. They haven’t laid out exactly how this money is made, but I’m guessing some of it revolves doing well in the Commissioner’s Cup. So if a player can make a large sum by being a part of a successful team, why worry about $30K a year?

You answered your own question: "can make." "As much as." Those bonuses are theoretical. That 30K is guaranteed.

Quote:
Also, if you think the extra $30K/yr is the most important thing, she could have just stayed in Phoenix.

Or.... and hear me out... she could not stay in Phoenix, and still get her money.

Quote:
What reason do you have to believe that she wanted out Phoenix for personal reasons?

What reason would I have to believe that she wanted out of Phoenix for professional reasons?

Quote:
I don’t have any insider information. I’m just somebody that makes observations and then tries to make sense out of those observations.

All my information is public.
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/28679305/sun-trade-three-1st-round-picks-mercury-sign-star-dewanna-bonner

Quote:
Bonner, 32, said in a statement that she is looking forward to helping Connecticut win its first title.

"I'm excited to play with this talented group and do whatever I can to help this organization hang its first championship banner," Bonner said in the statement. "Nothing is more important to me than winning."


Oops, that must be embarrassing.

I mean, it might be embarrassing, if I had never heard an athlete give an interview and/or press conference before. What'd you think that she was gonna say? "Nothing is more important to me than my paper"? Unless she wants to get booed out of the gym, the first time she's introduced in Uncasville, of course she's going to say that nothing's more important than winning. You act like you've never heard an athlete speak in cliches, before.



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Last edited by Silky Johnson on 02/14/20 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 1385



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 10:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
It’s ok to make observations and assume but it’s not ok to force them on people as though they are facts. I appreciate the work you put In on this board shades but sometimes I don’t even think you realize how much of a ____ You can be if someone disagrees or has real information before your assumption. We’re all here bc we love the W lets love one another at the same time 8) :D


Between you and me, I don't think that they require either one of those things: I think that they're a natural.



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 02/16/20 2:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Damn DB I didn’t see this one coming. Yes poor mercury fans!


Hey at least Bonner did a sign-and-trade and Phoenix got some stuff back in return. Can’t say the same for Angel M. and Atlanta!

Damn, when was the last time we saw a star player get traded into Connecticut??



That part , with moves like this it gives hope that maybe one day my city can be a destination. Make a finals appearance and they will show up ? Laughing


Disregarding the team (and the fans :p ) is Dallas considered an undesirable city by the players?


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 781
Location: Seattle, WA


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PostPosted: 02/16/20 5:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Dream are signing Stricklen.


Shocked And what would her motivation be for leaving a contender for a lottery team?? Unless the Dream are offering her the $185k max and the Sun offered her, like, half of that, expecting her to take it. Laughing

Conn already gave 215k to her replacement, and have to worry about both Thomases becoming free agents next year. Once the Bonner deal was done she was always moving on if she wanted to get remotely paid.


Still, why go to a lottery team? Unless literally no other team that expressed interest in her could offer her what Atlanta could. I’d guess she wasn’t accepting lucrative one-year deals. Welp, I hope she likes the money, cuz she ain’t gonna like watching the Finals/maybe the entire playoffs from her couch for the next however many years. I thought Atlanta wasn’t gonna get any free agents this year but boy was I wrong (though the new salary cap likely has a lot to do with that).

So I guess this means Courtney Williams ain’t coming back then either, unless you’re accounting in your numbers for her return. I feel like Connecticut then could’ve signed either Williams or Stricklen to a good deal and have been prepared to let go of Jasmine Thomas in 2021. This Bonner trade isn’t looking as good as it did, as Connecticut will not only have to find a way to smoothly integrate her into the starting lineup, but also still be able to piece together some sort of working bench. This team could use a newly released Alexis Jones imo (Vegas, too), who’s both cheap and experienced enough to be functional. But of course the Sun could use a lot more. They possibly haven’t even gotten to how they’ll handle Banham yet.


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 02/16/20 8:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The trade of C. Williams to Atlanta likely means CON will get Breland or E. Williams and possibly the #4 pick.



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 02/16/20 8:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
So I guess this means Courtney Williams ain’t coming back then either, unless you’re accounting in your numbers for her return.

Right now, it certainly doesn't look like they're planning for CWilliams to return. Giving Bria Holmes the deal they did makes it impossible to give another player 215k and keep everyone they currently have under contract you'd expect them to keep. Interestingly, however, it's still possible to pay that Player X 185k and keep those players. So if she signed an offer sheet elsewhere, they could technically match it and keep her (even if she was very much against the idea).

On Stricklen, it's not like she's a Bonner-level player where virtually every team in the league would've found room if that was where she decided she wanted to go. She doesn't do much offensively besides shoot 3s and she's not exactly a defensive stopper. Atlanta offered both a possible starting spot and probably more cash than anyone else (haven't heard what they gave her yet). Also it's not like they're definitely going to be terrible. Adding GJohnson, KBrown, Stricklen, maybe CWilliams, maybe the #4 pick... they become one of those 'if everything clicks right, who knows' teams.

ETA: Apologies, there's a mistake in there. CWilliams only has 4 years of WNBA experience, so can only be signed to 185k max anyway. So they've left themselves room (just) to keep her at her current max if they can talk her into it.



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RP



Joined: 17 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 02/16/20 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Courtney Williams looks the part, but it would be a reach to give a SG with a career 48.9 TS% a supermax anyway. For perspective, that's Bria Hartley's career TS%, and Hartley was slightly higher than Williams in 2019.

The curious part of all this for the Sun is how depleted the shooting will be, with or without Williams. Stricklen made 30% of the Sun's total made 3-pointers at a much higher shooting percentage than her teammates (38.2 compared to 34.6).


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 02/16/20 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It'll be interesting to see how Miller builds his bench now. I guess he re-signs Banham just for three point shooting. Also depends what they get in trading Courtney Williams.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/16/20 11:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RP wrote:
Courtney Williams looks the part, but it would be a reach to give a SG with a career 48.9 TS% a supermax anyway. For perspective, that's Bria Hartley's career TS%, and Hartley was slightly higher than Williams in 2019.


Would it really be a reach?? If we're cherrypicking specific stats, while Hartley posted a better TS% and Steal%, Williams posted a better eFG%, Rebound%, and ATO. In less specific stats, last season Williams shot 43% from the field (45% from 3), while Hartley shot 37% from the field (32% from 3). Hartley's more of a CG than Williams is, but in Phoenix, they'll at least have Diggins-Smith running the offense anyway, deeming Hartley a SG if she starts alongside her (if not, then she'd be a bench player). Not to mention she's never averaged more than 10 PPG. Courtney Williams' career stats are better than Hartley's across the board, and Williams is younger. No question in my mind that Williams is better than Hartley, so she's certainly deserving of the $185k max imo if Hartley's getting that.


TigerVol



Joined: 16 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 02/16/20 11:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On the up to 500k...

Was that purely salary and on court bonus money (eg cup or all star or awards)?

Or did reaching 500 k include all of that + off season opportunities with league partners?



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RP



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PostPosted: 02/16/20 11:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I never said Williams isn't a better player than Hartley, just that it wouldn't make sense to give a SG with that type of shooting efficiency a supermax (starting at $215k). Although I like the fit and think she still has potential to improve, the terms of Hartley's deal have been fairly panned by all.

The fact that Williams can only sign for $185k makes an offer sheet to her a far less complicated decision.


mavcarter
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PostPosted: 02/16/20 12:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Still, why go to a lottery team? Unless literally no other team that expressed interest in her could offer her what Atlanta could.


You’ve guessed it..

Quote:
@howardmegdal

Correction: 170k in year one for Stricklen, 175,500 in year 2 #WNBAFreeAgency


No one in this league was giving her that amount of money.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/16/20 12:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TigerVol wrote:
On the up to 500k...

Was that purely salary and on court bonus money (eg cup or all star or awards)?

Or did reaching 500 k include all of that + off season opportunities with league partners?


Where did it say it was in the form of offseason opportunities?



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/16/20 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:


You’ve guessed it..

Quote:
@howardmegdal

Correction: 170k in year one for Stricklen, 175,500 in year 2 #WNBAFreeAgency


No one in this league was giving her that amount of money.


And still, not as much as Hartley. Razz Phoenix should’ve thrown Hartley’s deal at Stricklen; she could’ve ironically been Bonner’s replacement lol. Stricklen’s at least proven to be a good outside shooter. Plus, DT3’s in all likelihood gonna have to start at the 3 (whenever she’s healthy) if Hartley starts, which could be a bit too outside her comfort zone - imagine Taurasi guarding particularly talented and/or physical SFs like McCoughtry. Laughing So much madness and weirdness abound...


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 02/16/20 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TigerVol wrote:
On the up to 500k...

Was that purely salary and on court bonus money (eg cup or all star or awards)?

Or did reaching 500 k include all of that + off season opportunities with league partners?

On-court max is $215,000

A player who won MVP, was First-Team All-WNBA, Defensive Player of the Year, Rookie of the Year, won the Sportsmanship Award, played in the All-Star Game, was All-Star Game MVP, won the All-Star 3-point contest, won the All-Star Skills competition, was on the All-Defensive Team and the All-Rookie Team could add $68,431 to that, by my count.

The exact money available in that Commissioner's Cup thing is all left pretty open-ended in the CBA.

So yeah, to get towards that 500k figure, you better be going for all the extra crap from sponsorships, appearances and hanging around in the US in the offseason.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/19/20 12:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://sun.wnba.com/news/sun-acquire-all-star-briann-january-2021-draft-pick-as-a-part-of-a-three-team-trade/

The Sun absolutely get the short end of the stick in this trade imo. If Williams wanted out, fine. But why be okay with only getting January and a bag of chips in return? The Sun already have a defensive PG in Thomas. Adding in January still doesn't appear to fill their starting SG spot from trading Williams away; but maybe she starts alongside Thomas anyway, given her career 38% from 3. Maybe Banham gets re-signed for cheap and she gets to compete for that starting spot. Maybe another big move is to come from the Sun (that actually benefits them).

So it goes in #WNBAFreeAgency2020...


bluedevilaztecfan5



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 219
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PostPosted: 02/19/20 12:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
https://sun.wnba.com/news/sun-acquire-all-star-briann-january-2021-draft-pick-as-a-part-of-a-three-team-trade/

The Sun absolutely get the short end of the stick in this trade imo. If Williams wanted out, fine. But why be okay with only getting January and a bag of chips in return?

So it goes in #WNBAFreeAgency2020...


I agree, they traded imo a future all star for a vet point guard who probably doesn’t re-sign in 2 years. No future pick or asset gained.
Maybe Atlanta was playing hardball.

But like you said, maybe January and Thomas start together...that’s a sick defensive backcourt and she hits the 3 at a high rate.


Aladyyn



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: 02/19/20 12:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All they had to do was get a couple decent bench players...


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/19/20 1:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here's one interesting soundbite from the Sun's press release:

Quote:
"We realize Courtney was a fan-favorite and we wish her the best in Atlanta. Unfortunately, despite our best efforts and all the loyalty and support we’ve shown Courtney over the last four seasons, it became clear she no longer wanted to return to Connecticut,” Miller added. “I will look back fondly on the memories we created together, but my focus as always is with the players that have a burning desire to help the Connecticut Sun hang the franchise’s first championship banner. I can’t wait to get back on the court with this team."


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 02/19/20 2:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

“Loyalty and support” *snicker*

You sign someone from outside “family” to a $215K four year deal, and you want to preach loyalty? I want to know what was the best deal he offered her to stay?



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