| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
Back to top |
 Posted: 02/12/20 11:51 am ::: |
Reply  |
|
Does anybody else think Courtney Williams shouldn't take anything less than what JJones got? And JJones was generous going the two-year route at a discount.
Miller making Williams deal secondary might mean he’s looking for a discount, or perhaps he’s shopping her.
Even if he were able to get a discount from Williams to make everything work this season, there’s no way he’s going to be able to pay both Thomases next season, maybe even neither. And guess what, after this season Jasmine Thomas is coming off her last core. They cored her for two seasons. Miller might decide to deal her now in the hopes of getting something in return, and not relying on a similar Bonner signing with her old team to hurt her new team deal.
Jasmine Thomas.... I think she’d look pretty good in a Lynx uniform. Williams would be okay too.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12537
Location: Dallas , Texas
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/12/20 12:35 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Im not sure if Jas Thomas wants to be in Connecticut anymore to be honest.
_________________
3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
|
|
Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/12/20 2:33 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Quote: |
WomensBasketball247
@womensbball247
17 m
*sources say a Sun player wants out... why is an asterisk used? I have no idea
|
_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
|
|
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/12/20 2:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Im not sure if Jas Thomas wants to be in Connecticut anymore to be honest. |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| Quote: |
WomensBasketball247
@womensbball247
17 m
*sources say a Sun player wants out... why is an asterisk used? I have no idea
|
|
If it's indeed Jasmine Thomas that wants out, that's not a bad thing. They'd miss her defensive intensity and consistency for sure, but one thing about adding Bonner to the lineup (if that means Stricklen is at least demoted to the bench, or even signed elsewhere entirely) is that there would be a new problem: lack of spacing, aka 3-point shooting. As much as Bonner will be a defensive and overall scoring upgrade from Stricklen, she has never been a great 3-point shooter (last year she shot not even 28% from 3), so her insertion into the starting lineup means the Sun will need to offset it by inserting 3-point shooting somewhere else. With the other starters staying put, they need a good-shooting PG. Hiedeman's still too young/inexperienced to be a starter imo, so they'll have to find that source somewhere else.
Hopefully it's indeed Jasmine Thomas that wants out and not someone of higher importance... I could see it being someone lower on the totem pole like Banham, Plaisance, etc. If it's, like, Alyssa Thomas, then yikes.
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/12/20 3:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Like I said, it could be Williams not liking the deal she’s being offered.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 10697
Location: Minnesota
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/12/20 3:42 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Stormeo wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Im not sure if Jas Thomas wants to be in Connecticut anymore to be honest. |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| Quote: |
WomensBasketball247
@womensbball247
17 m
*sources say a Sun player wants out... why is an asterisk used? I have no idea
|
|
If it's indeed Jasmine Thomas that wants out, that's not a bad thing. They'd miss her defensive intensity and consistency for sure, but one thing about adding Bonner to the lineup (if that means Stricklen is at least demoted to the bench, or even signed elsewhere entirely) is that there would be a new problem: lack of spacing, aka 3-point shooting. As much as Bonner will be a defensive and overall scoring upgrade from Stricklen, she has never been a great 3-point shooter (last year she shot not even 28% from 3), so her insertion into the starting lineup means the Sun will need to offset it by inserting 3-point shooting somewhere else. With the other starters staying put, they need a good-shooting PG. Hiedeman's still too young/inexperienced to be a starter imo, so they'll have to find that source somewhere else.
Hopefully it's indeed Jasmine Thomas that wants out and not someone of higher importance... I could see it being someone lower on the totem pole like Banham, Plaisance, etc. If it's, like, Alyssa Thomas, then yikes. |
If Jas wants out, how long until AT wants out? Or are they no longer a couple anymore? Or maybe that could be a reason she would want out.
|
|
WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12537
Location: Dallas , Texas
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/12/20 4:15 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Lynx mania your on to something, but with the way those two have been over the years I can’t rule out a change of “Heart”
_________________
3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
|
|
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
Back to top |
|
toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/14/20 10:43 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| If the Sun lose Williams, Stricklen and Holmes, their bench will actually be worse than last year's.
_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
|
|
RI_Sun_Fan
Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 858
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/14/20 1:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Bonner was listed an UFA. If she wanted to go to Connecticut and wants to win, why didn't she sign a max deal with the Sun directly and then her new team would still have 3 1st round pics over the next two years ?
|
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24355
Location: London
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/14/20 1:54 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| RI_Sun_Fan wrote: |
| Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Bonner was listed an UFA. If she wanted to go to Connecticut and wants to win, why didn't she sign a max deal with the Sun directly and then her new team would still have 3 1st round pics over the next two years ? |
Because turning it into a sign-and-trade got her 4 years starting at 215k rather than 3 years starting at 185k. She valued that more than the three picks  . |
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/14/20 2:07 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| RI_Sun_Fan wrote: |
| Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Bonner was listed an UFA. If she wanted to go to Connecticut and wants to win, why didn't she sign a max deal with the Sun directly and then her new team would still have 3 1st round pics over the next two years ? |
She's got to feed her family.
In all seriousness, it's a significant amount of money and wouldn't you make sure you were being paid your worth? I know I wouldn't be leaving +30k/year on the table to help my employer hire additional people to meet some team performance goals...
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/14/20 2:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I’m assuming the key to all that extra sponsorship money is your team winning... like the Commissioner’s Cup and whatnot. So short term worrying about $30K/yr and reducing your team’s player assets in the future lessens your team’s ability to win. Not looking at the big picture.
If $215K was so important to her, she could have just stayed in PHX. It’s not like there’s no hope to win there playing with Griner. I mean, just look at PHX’s efforts to remain relevant after Bonner left. That’s what she left.
As far as Connecticut goes, it may be looking rosey for them to you right now, but the band won’t be able to stay together for long.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Last edited by Shades on 02/14/20 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
Back to top |
|
Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3318
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/14/20 9:00 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Shades wrote: |
| I’m assuming the key to all that extra sponsorship money is your team winning... like the Commissioner’s Cup and whatnot. So short term worrying about $30K/yr and reducing your team’s player assets in the future lessens your team’s ability to win. Not looking at the big picture. |
I mean, Bonner is a made woman, in this league: 2 rings, 3x All-Star, 3x 6WOY. She's already a lock for Knoxville, and she's got a puncher's chance at Springfield. A third ring isn't going to make a difference to whether she gets in to the Naismith or not, so why the hell should she give any money back?
| Quote: |
| If $215K was so important to her, she could have just stayed in PHX. It’s not like there’s no hope to win there playing with Griner. I mean, just look at PHX’s efforts to remain relevant after Bonner left. That’s what she left. |
This presupposes, once again, that:- Bonner wants a third ring more than she wants to get paid, and also
- Bonner wants to win more than she wanted the hell out of Phoenix.
Unless you have some insider information that you're holding back, we don't have any particular reason to believe either one of those things.
_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
|
|
toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/14/20 9:28 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Also, if Bonner stayed with Phoenix and got the max, Phoenix couldn't have brought in Hartley. So us Liberty fans thank Bonner for that move.
_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/14/20 9:56 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| I’m assuming the key to all that extra sponsorship money is your team winning... like the Commissioner’s Cup and whatnot. So short term worrying about $30K/yr and reducing your team’s player assets in the future lessens your team’s ability to win. Not looking at the big picture. |
I mean, Bonner is a made woman, in this league: 2 rings, 3x All-Star, 3x 6WOY. She's already a lock for Knoxville, and she's got a puncher's chance at Springfield. A third ring isn't going to make a difference to whether she gets in to the Naismith or not, so why the hell should she give any money back? |
Not sure what you’re going on about. I was talking about the extra money players can win through sponsorships. The league touted that a player can make as much as $500,000 in a season. They haven’t laid out exactly how this money is made, but I’m guessing some of it revolves doing well in the Commissioner’s Cup. So if a player can make a large sum by being a part of a successful team, why worry about $30K a year?
Also, if you think the extra $30K/yr is the most important thing, she could have just stayed in Phoenix.
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| If $215K was so important to her, she could have just stayed in PHX. It’s not like there’s no hope to win there playing with Griner. I mean, just look at PHX’s efforts to remain relevant after Bonner left. That’s what she left. |
This presupposes, once again, that:- Bonner wants a third ring more than she wants to get paid, and also
- Bonner wants to win more than she wanted the hell out of Phoenix.
Unless you have some insider information that you're holding back, we don't have any particular reason to believe either one of those things. |
What reason do you have to believe that she wanted out Phoenix for personal reasons?
I don’t have any insider information. I’m just somebody that makes observations and then tries to make sense out of those observations.
All my information is public.
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/28679305/sun-trade-three-1st-round-picks-mercury-sign-star-dewanna-bonner
| Quote: |
Bonner, 32, said in a statement that she is looking forward to helping Connecticut win its first title.
"I'm excited to play with this talented group and do whatever I can to help this organization hang its first championship banner," Bonner said in the statement. "Nothing is more important to me than winning." |
Oops, that must be embarrassing.
It’s probably not literally true though, because she’s a cap space problem at $215K, which hurts the team’s ability to keep other important players, plus she needlessly cost her new team long term assets. So, that $30K/yr probably meant more to her than increasing the team’s potential to win. But maybe it’ll work out that she can have both. We’ll have to wait and see.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/14/20 10:02 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| If Connecticut loses Williams, Stricklen & Holmes, they won't have a bench. IMO, this cost them the title in 2019.
_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
|
|
WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12537
Location: Dallas , Texas
Back to top |
|
Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3318
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/14/20 10:35 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Shades wrote: |
| Not sure what you’re going on about. I was talking about the extra money players can win through sponsorships. The league touted that a player can make as much as $500,000 in a season. They haven’t laid out exactly how this money is made, but I’m guessing some of it revolves doing well in the Commissioner’s Cup. So if a player can make a large sum by being a part of a successful team, why worry about $30K a year? |
You answered your own question: "can make." "As much as." Those bonuses are theoretical. That 30K is guaranteed.
| Quote: |
| Also, if you think the extra $30K/yr is the most important thing, she could have just stayed in Phoenix. |
Or.... and hear me out... she could not stay in Phoenix, and still get her money.
| Quote: |
| What reason do you have to believe that she wanted out Phoenix for personal reasons? |
What reason would I have to believe that she wanted out of Phoenix for professional reasons?
| Quote: |
I don’t have any insider information. I’m just somebody that makes observations and then tries to make sense out of those observations.
All my information is public.
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/28679305/sun-trade-three-1st-round-picks-mercury-sign-star-dewanna-bonner
| Quote: |
Bonner, 32, said in a statement that she is looking forward to helping Connecticut win its first title.
"I'm excited to play with this talented group and do whatever I can to help this organization hang its first championship banner," Bonner said in the statement. "Nothing is more important to me than winning." |
Oops, that must be embarrassing. |
I mean, it might be embarrassing, if I had never heard an athlete give an interview and/or press conference before. What'd you think that she was gonna say? "Nothing is more important to me than my paper"? Unless she wants to get booed out of the gym, the first time she's introduced in Uncasville, of course she's going to say that nothing's more important than winning. You act like you've never heard an athlete speak in cliches, before.
_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
Last edited by Silky Johnson on 02/14/20 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3318
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/14/20 10:38 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| It’s ok to make observations and assume but it’s not ok to force them on people as though they are facts. I appreciate the work you put In on this board shades but sometimes I don’t even think you realize how much of a ____ You can be if someone disagrees or has real information before your assumption. We’re all here bc we love the W lets love one another at the same time 8) :D |
Between you and me, I don't think that they require either one of those things: I think that they're a natural.
_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9624
Back to top |
|
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/16/20 5:29 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Richyyy wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| Dream are signing Stricklen. |
 And what would her motivation be for leaving a contender for a lottery team?? Unless the Dream are offering her the $185k max and the Sun offered her, like, half of that, expecting her to take it.  |
Conn already gave 215k to her replacement, and have to worry about both Thomases becoming free agents next year. Once the Bonner deal was done she was always moving on if she wanted to get remotely paid. |
Still, why go to a lottery team? Unless literally no other team that expressed interest in her could offer her what Atlanta could. I’d guess she wasn’t accepting lucrative one-year deals. Welp, I hope she likes the money, cuz she ain’t gonna like watching the Finals/maybe the entire playoffs from her couch for the next however many years. I thought Atlanta wasn’t gonna get any free agents this year but boy was I wrong (though the new salary cap likely has a lot to do with that).
So I guess this means Courtney Williams ain’t coming back then either, unless you’re accounting in your numbers for her return. I feel like Connecticut then could’ve signed either Williams or Stricklen to a good deal and have been prepared to let go of Jasmine Thomas in 2021. This Bonner trade isn’t looking as good as it did, as Connecticut will not only have to find a way to smoothly integrate her into the starting lineup, but also still be able to piece together some sort of working bench. This team could use a newly released Alexis Jones imo (Vegas, too), who’s both cheap and experienced enough to be functional. But of course the Sun could use a lot more. They possibly haven’t even gotten to how they’ll handle Banham yet.
|
|
toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/16/20 8:05 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| The trade of C. Williams to Atlanta likely means CON will get Breland or E. Williams and possibly the #4 pick.
_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
|
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24355
Location: London
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/16/20 8:34 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Stormeo wrote: |
| So I guess this means Courtney Williams ain’t coming back then either, unless you’re accounting in your numbers for her return. |
Right now, it certainly doesn't look like they're planning for CWilliams to return. Giving Bria Holmes the deal they did makes it impossible to give another player 215k and keep everyone they currently have under contract you'd expect them to keep. Interestingly, however, it's still possible to pay that Player X 185k and keep those players. So if she signed an offer sheet elsewhere, they could technically match it and keep her (even if she was very much against the idea).
On Stricklen, it's not like she's a Bonner-level player where virtually every team in the league would've found room if that was where she decided she wanted to go. She doesn't do much offensively besides shoot 3s and she's not exactly a defensive stopper. Atlanta offered both a possible starting spot and probably more cash than anyone else (haven't heard what they gave her yet). Also it's not like they're definitely going to be terrible. Adding GJohnson, KBrown, Stricklen, maybe CWilliams, maybe the #4 pick... they become one of those 'if everything clicks right, who knows' teams.
ETA: Apologies, there's a mistake in there. CWilliams only has 4 years of WNBA experience, so can only be signed to 185k max anyway. So they've left themselves room (just) to keep her at her current max if they can talk her into it. |
|
|
|
