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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 8:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Jackie Young continues to shoot 32% from the floor, her position is either "journeyman" or "assistant coach". Of the 119 players who played 200+ minutes, she was 116th in FG%. Only Rachel Banham, Alex Bentley, and Brooke McCarty-Williams were worse.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 8:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just for the record, I don't think LV should trade J.Young unless it's a no brainer. I think JY's less than stellar season had more to do with having to learn a new position as a rookie. The Aces should run it back but with Plum running the point. They need to add a backup post and a shooter.

Keeping it 100.....Had Wilson/McBride performed up to their all-star capabilities, Vegas would've won this series in 4 games.




Last edited by zune69 on 09/25/19 9:20 am; edited 1 time in total
shontay33



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 8:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
If Jackie Young continues to shoot 32% from the floor, her position is either "journeyman" or "assistant coach". Of the 119 players who played 200+ minutes, she was 116th in FG%. Only Rachel Banham, Alex Bentley, and Brooke McCarty-Williams were worse.


So let’s blame a rookie who is playing point guard who is really a wing player. Not even looking at the other three all stars on her team. They had no fault in this right Plight? It’s all on the rookie whose role was not to score or really shoot because she had three all stars and another capable scorer in Plum. But all you can point out is that someone who shoots 5 or less shots per game is only shooting 32%.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 8:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
If Jackie Young continues to shoot 32% from the floor, her position is either "journeyman" or "assistant coach". Of the 119 players who played 200+ minutes, she was 116th in FG%. Only Rachel Banham, Alex Bentley, and Brooke McCarty-Williams were worse.

Yeah, that's a thoroughly fair point. I think part of shoe-horning her in at the point was to create value out of her even if she couldn't hit water off the side of a boat. If you make her the 'lead guard' then she's also nominally running the offense and getting some assist numbers. But she basically got played off the floor in the playoffs (even beyond Plum taking the PG minutes, it's not like JYoung was seeing much time on the wing either).

At the minute, unless you think she's genuinely going to evolve into a creative force as a point guard, she's pretty much a younger Tamera Young. But she's a rookie. There's plenty of room for development and growth, and she's got lots of tools. The obvious thing to work on is the jump shot but just experience and increased knowledge of the game will help as well. That said, in a draft that appears to have included several players who'll at least be really good, you definitely hope to get more than Tamera Young mark 2 with the #1 overall pick.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 9:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Great point, pilight ...

Young may turn out to have value in the league, but this year she was a below-average player overall, according to the advanced stats. She's slightly above average defensively, and well below average offensively.

But let's remember she's been able to score in the past, and may be able to refine her game enough to become an average (or even better) offensive player. It's a tough league, after all, and players (see Kelsey Plum) often take time to figure things out.

Still, her shooting woes could hamstring her career, as non-shooting perimeter players are seldom stars.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 9:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Laimbeer's going to be looking to trade some pieces. He doesn't have a first or second round pick in 2020. So he can only better his roster through trades or free agency. I don't think Swords is worth re-signing. If South Korea doesn't qualify for the Olympics, he'll get Park again. Essentially, he needs a stronger backup center and a solid back-up PG.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 9:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pilight is not a math guy so he probably won’t understand this. When you don’t shoot the ball very much, your shooting percentage is very volatile. If you only shoot the ball 7 times per game and make 2 shots per game, pilight is pointing out how poor if a shooter you are. But if you take 7 shots per game and make 3 of them, pilight is praising your shooting ability. But it’s not really that huge of a difference, is it? Is it going to be tough for Young to raise her shooting percentage? I don’t think so.

I’d be more worried about the player taking 17 shots and only making 38% of them.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 9:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Pilight is not a math guy so he probably won’t understand this. When you don’t shoot the ball very much, your shooting percentage is very volatile. If you only shoot the ball 7 times per game and make 2 shots per game, pilight is pointing out how poor if a shooter you are. But if you take 7 shots per game and make 3 of them, pilight is praising your shooting ability. But it’s not really that huge of a difference, is it? Is it going to be tough for Young to raise her shooting percentage? I don’t think so.

I’d be more worried about the player taking 17 shots and only making 38% of them.


Young shot the ball 236 times this season, not including the play-offs. That's hardly a small sample.


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 9:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Everybody wants to praise Young for her assists, which are far more volatile than FG%. Layshia Clarendon was 2nd in the league one year, then benched and traded the next.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 9:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
<b>Pilight is not a math guy so he probably won’t understand this.</b>


????????????

You, however, have a website filled with statistical information? Or maybe you do have a math degree ... even so, hardly called for.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 10:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
pilight wrote:
If Jackie Young continues to shoot 32% from the floor, her position is either "journeyman" or "assistant coach". Of the 119 players who played 200+ minutes, she was 116th in FG%. Only Rachel Banham, Alex Bentley, and Brooke McCarty-Williams were worse.

Yeah, that's a thoroughly fair point. I think part of shoe-horning her in at the point was to create value out of her even if she couldn't hit water off the side of a boat. If you make her the 'lead guard' then she's also nominally running the offense and getting some assist numbers. But she basically got played off the floor in the playoffs (even beyond Plum taking the PG minutes, it's not like JYoung was seeing much time on the wing either).

At the minute, unless you think she's genuinely going to evolve into a creative force as a point guard, she's pretty much a younger Tamera Young. But she's a rookie. There's plenty of room for development and growth, and she's got lots of tools. The obvious thing to work on is the jump shot but just experience and increased knowledge of the game will help as well. That said, in a draft that appears to have included several players who'll at least be really good, you definitely hope to get more than Tamera Young mark 2 with the #1 overall pick.


Yeah, I said originally she was T.Young redux. The troubling thing for me was all the missed layups. She shot poorly and a lot of it was close to the rim. Hitting those 3's in game 3 was an eye-opener though. If she could do that consistently then for sure she adds value. I think to give her a break as a rookie and see what happens in year 2. If you read the article on Plum, you could tell her rookie year wasn't exactly a piece of cake either, but she's come along nicely.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Yeah, I said originally she was T.Young redux. The troubling thing for me was all the missed layups. She shot poorly and a lot of it was close to the rim. Hitting those 3's in game 3 was an eye-opener though. If she could do that consistently then for sure she adds value. I think to give her a break as a rookie and see what happens in year 2. If you read the article on Plum, you could tell her rookie year wasn't exactly a piece of cake either, but she's come along nicely.

We've seen lots of players struggle to finish around the rim when they make the step up to the pros. It's just much more difficult when you're surrounded by the superior athletes at the top level (who are also just bigger, on average). The most glaring example was Diggins, who was a trainwreck around the rim as a rookie, went away and got stronger, and improved enormously.

It's also difficult to judge Young in some ways because of how little she was asked to do. Typically I'd be disappointed by how little you tended to feel her impact in games, or how often you just forgot whether she was on the floor or not. But they didn't need her to be a scorer or a dominating presence, because unlike the teams that most #1 picks join, they already had lots of scoring talent. Maybe they'd have liked to have seen her be a little more aggressive offensively, but when you've got the choice between tossing up another 30% jumper or throwing it in to Wilson or Cambage, passing seems like a pretty good choice.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 11:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

People remember Ogunbowale's buzzer-beater that beat UConn in the NCAA semifinal a couple of years ago. What they forget is that ND wouldn't be in the game if not for Jacke Young's 32 points. Even in this past year's tournament, UConn went up by 8 in the 4th Quarter and they looked ready to blow the game open. It was Jackie Young who stopped their momentum by stepping up and draining a 3. J.Young is not afraid of big moments, and IMHO she has shown enough at the college level for us to believe she can score well as a pro. I just think Jackie got thrown into a tough situation. She went from someone unsure if she'd enter the draft to being the #1 pick, then a starter at a new position on a team picked by WNBA GMs to win the championship. It was simply too much, too soon.



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shontay33



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 11:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Pilight is not a math guy so he probably won’t understand this. When you don’t shoot the ball very much, your shooting percentage is very volatile. If you only shoot the ball 7 times per game and make 2 shots per game, pilight is pointing out how poor if a shooter you are. But if you take 7 shots per game and make 3 of them, pilight is praising your shooting ability. But it’s not really that huge of a difference, is it? Is it going to be tough for Young to raise her shooting percentage? I don’t think so.

I’d be more worried about the player taking 17 shots and only making 38% of them.


Exactly. Comparing players who take and or took small amounts of shots as rookies is not a good comparison at all. With basketball you have to look at who is on the floor at that time as well. We also do not know what the role of the player who takes only 5 shots is. Only the players on the team and the coaches know that. As a basketball player its about who you have on your team. If you have three or four scorers on your team and you are the primary ball handler, that means that you have to make sure that they get their shots so there may only be an opportunity to take 5 or less shots. This in my opinion will not make or break your team if they are taking care of business on both ends of the floor. People should realise that statistics and analytics do not give you the entire picture of what is going on. There is more to the game that PER and shooting percentages.


shontay33



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 11:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
People remember Ogunbowale's buzzer-beater that beat UConn in the NCAA semifinal a couple of years ago. What they forget is that ND wouldn't be in the game if not for Jacke Young's 32 points. Even in this past year's tournament, UConn went up by 8 in the 4th Quarter and they looked ready to blow the game open. It was Jackie Young who stopped their momentum by stepping up and draining a 3. J.Young is not afraid of big moments, and IMHO she has shown enough at the college level for us to believe she can score well as a pro. I just think Jackie got thrown into a tough situation. She went from someone unsure if she'd enter the draft to being the #1 pick, then a starter at a new position on a team picked by WNBA GMs to win the championship. It was simply too much, too soon.


In my opinon, its not that she was overwhelmed. It is that as you stated, she is playing a new position. She also has a different role where she basically her role on this team was not to score but to be a ball handler and defend where she had a few bumps. What rookie doesn't have those?


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's been 10 years since the last rookie played at least 20 minutes/game, took fewer than seven fga/game, and shot under 35% from the floor and from three.
The expectation in the league is different than it used to be.



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 12:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe she was not taking many shots for a reason.......



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 12:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
If Jackie Young continues to shoot 32% from the floor, her position is either "journeyman" or "assistant coach". Of the 119 players who played 200+ minutes, she was 116th in FG%. Only Rachel Banham, Alex Bentley, and Brooke McCarty-Williams were worse.


Wait, Banham? Banham is worse than Young? If Banham isn't hitting shots, what is she even good for?



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 2:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So Cambage says she doesn’t want to play for anyone else, except 5-6 months ago she would only play for LA. Laughing

I’ll believe it when I see her back in Vegas next year. Wouldn’t bet on her returning but stranger things have happened.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 2:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aO-05vztio0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Cambage says she wants to come back. Best team she’s ever played for in the WNBA.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3gJItzXFsb0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Laimbeer threw Wilson under the bus a little bit. Felt she may have hit the wall because she didn’t take conditioning seriously enough this year.



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I cant find a stat sheat for the game but I think lack of any significant scoring from McBride cost the Aces the game. She is a streaky shooter due to her strange shooting stroke. If I were Bill I would try to trade her while she may have some trade value.


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PostPosted: 09/25/19 4:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

adamj95 wrote:
So Cambage says she doesn’t want to play for anyone else, except 5-6 months ago she would only play for LA. Laughing

I’ll believe it when I see her back in Vegas next year. Wouldn’t bet on her returning but stranger things have happened.

I think part of the appeal of LA was her good mate CP3, who might not be an active player there for that much longer. (What's her contract situation? Liz should try to lure her to Vegas)



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
So Cambage says she doesn’t want to play for anyone else, except 5-6 months ago she would only play for LA. Laughing

I’ll believe it when I see her back in Vegas next year. Wouldn’t bet on her returning but stranger things have happened.

I think part of the appeal of LA was her good mate CP3, who might not be an active player there for that much longer. (What's her contract situation? Liz should try to lure her to Vegas)


Parker has another year on her current contract



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toad455



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 5:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

People are being too hard on Jackie Young. She's a rookie that got thrown into the lead guard role. A role she didn't really play in college. We shall see what happens next season, but I don't see J Young as a future PG. Do Rodgers & Prince return? Curious what trader Bill has up his sleeve this offseason and what FAs would consider going to Vegas?



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Angus24



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 8:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I found a stat sheet for the game. McBride shot 20% on both 2 and 3 point shots. Total of 8 points, 3 for 3 on Free Throws. She needs to go.


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