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craigmont



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 02/10/20 6:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:

The mystery to me is why Seattle felt a huge need to add a bench forward, unless some other moves are going down.


My guess would be this was more about Connecticut wanting to trade up than Seattle going after Tuck.


Shades



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 6:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

craigmont wrote:
Shades wrote:

The mystery to me is why Seattle felt a huge need to add a bench forward, unless some other moves are going down.


My guess would be this was more about Connecticut wanting to trade up than Seattle going after Tuck.


That may be the case, but that doesn’t mean Seattle has to cooperate.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tuck as the 5th post is fine

She can shoot the 3 can play some 3 and some 4 maybe she plays the 3 ahead of KML or replaces KML if Magbegor comes over

Has an on the court familiarity with Stewart and KML

Seattle doesn't really need that much out of the 1st round pick some of the players they might be targeting at 7 could still be there at 11

Bird/Canada
Loyd/Whitcomb/#11 (Pivec, Laska, Martin, Gillespie more of a SF type, Carrington, Landrum?)
Clark/KML
Stewart/Langhorne/Tuck
Howard/Russell


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 02/10/20 8:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So does this mean Magbegor isn't coming over?



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
So does this mean Magbegor isn't coming over?


Spooner’s never been a fan.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 8:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
toad455 wrote:
So does this mean Magbegor isn't coming over?


Spooner’s never been a fan.


not true

tbh I have seen very little of Magbegor so I don't have an opinion she is the same age as a college junior I believe and has a WNBA body I am sure she can be really good

I am just trying to figure out the Tuck signing, it makes more sense if Magbegor is not coming over, or if they see Tuck as a 3 and like her more than KML

but Seattle's starters and a bench of Canada, Whitcomb, Langhorne and Russell creates a lot of flexibility with the other 3 players who if everyone else is healthy aren't getting a lot of minutes when the starters and those bench players are on and rotations are tightened.


craigmont



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 9:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tuck is 6'2" and 205 lbs. Does she not play like a big? that doesn't say 'wing' to me.


mavcarter
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PostPosted: 02/10/20 9:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

craigmont wrote:
Tuck is 6'2" and 205 lbs. Does she not play like a big.


Not at all, IMO. More spot up, finesse than post play or “playing like a big”.



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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 02/10/20 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

craigmont wrote:
Tuck is 6'2" and 205 lbs. Does she not play like a big? that doesn't say 'wing' to me.


I think she’s too “big” at this point and not a consistent enough shooter to play the 3, so realistically she’s an undersized stretch-4... which is what Langhorne was trying to convert herself into last year. To me, the trade makes zero sense unless Langhorne won’t be on the roster (via cut or trade). I’m trying to imagine Tuck at the 3 & Langhorne at the 4 defensively... and it ain’t pretty.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 9:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

yeah but all these combos could work for 5 to 10 minutes a night (which is all it is going to be)

Tuck, Stewart, Howard
Tuck, Howard, Russell
Stewart, Tuck, Russell
Clark, Tuck, Howard
Clark, Tuck, Stewart
Clark, Tuck, Russell


Shades



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Spooner, maybe Tuck is okay if you get her for nothing in return. But was she worth trading down 4 spots? I think the history of #7 picks are better than #11.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 10:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tuck was mostly a 4 in Connecticut last season, but definitely played both spots over her time there (and when she was on the court with Alyssa Thomas they were often kind of splitting the roles between them). It strikes me as a move to keep Stewart happy as much as anything. She doesn't look a great fit - they've got Clark at the 3 and multiple post players who are better than her - but if she's actually fit then she could play a bench role. She's also only 25, and Seattle does have several aging pieces. Maybe they're hoping she can ease in as part of the future when those players move on.

The fact that they did it as a trade hopefully means they didn't overpay her like teams usually have to in order to get an RFA - because you're trying to force the old team not to match. She's not a player I'd want to risk taking up meaningful cap room.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 10:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just wonder why the Storm would overpay for her? She clear wasn't worth anything above the minimum.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 10:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The MDB shows Tuck getting a two year deal at $115K/yr guaranteed.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 10:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Spooner, maybe Tuck is okay if you get her for nothing in return. But was she worth trading down 4 spots? I think the history of #7 picks are better than #11.


IDK if there are some early entries the difference doesn't seem that great to me

1-4
Ionescu, Cox, Sabally, Carter

5-8
Allarie, Mompremier, Charles, Hebard

9-12ish
Holmes, Cooper, Harris, Dangerfield

other options
Laska, Pivec, Gillespie, Martin

5-12+ don't seem too differnet and I am sure I am forgetting a player or two. I could see some in the higher group flopping and some in the latter groups thriving so some luck will be involved

no early entries it seems a little dicey once you get past 5 so who knows?


TotalCardinalMove



Joined: 13 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: 02/10/20 10:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Shades wrote:
Spooner, maybe Tuck is okay if you get her for nothing in return. But was she worth trading down 4 spots? I think the history of #7 picks are better than #11.


IDK if there are some early entries the difference doesn't seem that great to me

1-4
Ionescu, Cox, Sabally, Carter

5-8
Allarie, Mompremier, Charles, Hebard

9-12ish
Holmes, Cooper, Harris, Dangerfield

other options
Laska, Pivec, Gillespie, Martin

5-12+ don't seem too differnet and I am sure I am forgetting a player or two. I could see some in the higher group flopping and some in the latter groups thriving so some luck will be involved

no early entries it seems a little dicey once you get past 5 so who knows?


With Bonner out, I wouldn’t be too shocked to see Phoenix take Alarie or Holmes.


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 02/11/20 12:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Just wonder why the Storm would overpay for her? She clear wasn't worth anything above the minimum.


Same reason we signed a past-her-prime Courtney Paris to a two-year guaranteed near-max contract at an average of not even 9 minutes per game.

Same reason we flat-out traded away our 2017 first-rounder more or less in exchange for one year of Carolyn Swords at... not even 9 minutes per game.

Same reason we traded away functional (at the time) bench player Renee Montgomery mid-season in exchange for a Monica Wright that had only just begun her recovery attempt from a career-threatening knee injury, knowing full well she wouldn't be able to play the remainder of that season, but would only go on to play the next season (not even appearing in half the 34 games) before calling it quits.

Same reason we sent away valuable starters in the rotation in Camille Little and Shekinna Stricklen, only to end up with, after just two years removed from that trade, Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis - who turned out to be a shorter, less versatile, and overall worse version of Stricklen.

What is the reason, you ask? Fuck if I know, cuz that's the million-dollar question that'll in all likelihood - before it's all said & done - actually screw this franchise out of a million dollars.


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/11/20 4:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And I'll concede that only two of the four moves I listed above were hot garbage at the time (the Swords trade & the injured Wright trade). But the other two at the very least didn't age well, and ultimately all of the moves individually & collectively reflect back on the GM who made them. Like I previously said, I don't give Valavanis much credit for the Howard trade - that was a combination of Hughes' having her at the top of his wish list and Cheryl Reeve (as we all know) clearly undervaluing her in Minnesota. If Hughes were a new coach with little/no GM experience, I bet Valavanis gives up a whole lot more to get Howard (or wouldn't trade for her altogether) and it leads to a championship-less 2018 season. She's hopelessly terrible at being a GM.


Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 02/12/20 12:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I like Tuck...

But, when LV is adding Angel, CON is adding Bonner, LA is adding Toliver and Sykes, and PHO looks to be adding Charles and SDS... You can't just add Tuck! Shocked

Hopefully more is coming down the pipe or Seattle's going to get smoked Idea



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/12/20 1:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

getting Stewart back is like adding a super star free agent, and Seattle can probably afford to bring in another free agent from the bench

Bird, Loyd, Clark, Stewart, Howard
Canada, Whitcomb, Langhorne, Russell
Tuck, pick #11

UFA Dolson, Hartley, GloJo, Prince, Rodgers (Do any of them move the needle?)

RFA Copper, Holmes, Banham

or just stick with
KML, A. Howard or Dietrick

I think Seattle is still right in the mix but Howard and Stewart will still need to be awesome and Loyd will need to return to borderline all-star level and Canada and Russell will have to continue their ascent


Aladyyn



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: 02/12/20 2:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
I like Tuck...

But, when LV is adding Angel, CON is adding Bonner, LA is adding Toliver and Sykes, and PHO looks to be adding Charles and SDS... You can't just add Tuck! Shocked

Hopefully more is coming down the pipe or Seattle's going to get smoked Idea

I think that's an overreaction. At this point Seattle is the #1 team going into the season imo


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/12/20 4:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It all depends on the health of Stewie and Bird. Can they come close to their 2018 level of play. If so then yes we are certainly in the mix for that championship.



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craigmont



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 591
Location: Bing-town


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PostPosted: 02/12/20 12:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Admiral_Needa wrote:
I like Tuck...

But, when LV is adding Angel, CON is adding Bonner, LA is adding Toliver and Sykes, and PHO looks to be adding Charles and SDS... You can't just add Tuck! Shocked

Hopefully more is coming down the pipe or Seattle's going to get smoked Idea

I think that's an overreaction. At this point Seattle is the #1 team going into the season imo


If CON added Bonner, that means PHX lost her. Same with all the other players that moved teams. It's not like we weren't playing them before.

The team that smoked everybody in 2018 returns intact, with IMO the addition of greatly improved Canada and Russell.

Vegas does look like a buzzsaw though.


craigmont



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 02/12/20 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here's a nice writeup on the Morgan Tuck trade:

https://cascadiasn.com/seattle-storm/seattle-storm-acquire-morgan-tuck-from-connecticut/?fbclid=IwAR2wZk19gWkZFA9BvOEtSwDeYMmxTgpvz5fYn2mS2gYM-8KBBQUgFmE08gU


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/12/20 2:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

craigmont wrote:
Here's a nice writeup on the Morgan Tuck trade:

https://cascadiasn.com/seattle-storm/seattle-storm-acquire-morgan-tuck-from-connecticut/?fbclid=IwAR2wZk19gWkZFA9BvOEtSwDeYMmxTgpvz5fYn2mS2gYM-8KBBQUgFmE08gU


Hmmmmmm, I'm gonna have to pull a Shades here and (over)analyze the insight offered in this article sentence by sentence.

Quote:
Tuck is a tweener. She most likely will be seen as a 3 for the Storm.


Starting off bad right off the bat. I guess she can join the Out-of-Shape Players Club that the Storm have had since KML and subsequently Courtney Paris joined the roster.

Quote:
Her numbers are similar to Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis,


Who is also a 3 on this team. If they're so similar, why are they both here? Like Shades suggested, is Clark pregnant/taking the year off or something? Unless KML indeed will be on her way out soon.

Quote:
but she is a much better defender


By any metric, everyone's a much better defender.

Quote:
She works well from the high post, and you could run an offense through her, particularly against a zone.


That may be true, but how often is a zone even used in the W? If running an offense against a zone is one of your calling cards, I'm not answering.

Quote:
She’s a 33-35% three-point shooter.


Not a selling point.

Quote:
Tuck is a very (high IQ) basketball player, a great passer, and an adequate defender. She rarely makes mistakes and is a better than average ball-handler for her size (6’2”). She is a great teammate, with a very even disposition and (displays) confidence on the floor that can calm things down in tense moments.


There's no doubt she'd fit in with the team culture, that's not a concern. She just isn't going to be out there enough for all of this to matter unless someone gets injured, and as far as I know, no one is injured as of now.

Quote:
Her chemistry with Stewart should be an asset.


Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but they haven't seriously played together since their college days four years ago. They'll have to work to regain that chemistry, just like any other two players. And again, how often will she even be on the floor with Stewart for this supposed built-in chemistry to matter?

Quote:
She is also an excellent free-throw shooter.


For her career, she hasn't averaged more than two FTs per game. Last season she didn't even average one per game.

Quote:
She is a good help defender and can guard smaller fours, and slower threes.


She can guard smaller fours because she is a smaller four. I can't really think of "slower threes" in the league right now, because they're either all undersized and quick (G/Fs) or lanky and athletic (true SFs).

Quote:
Her continuing knee problems have slowed her from her college days


But he said it himself, they are continuing and will never go away entirely.

Quote:
With the Sun, the most obvious change in her four years was reduced playing time. With Alyssa Thomas playing the four for 30 plus minutes, there wasn’t a lot of four time for Tuck. With the much quicker Bria Holmes becoming the principal sub for Stricklen at the three, there really wasn’t a place for Tuck, except when she was the best player for a particular matchup. She just wasn’t treated as a central part of the team. If she were to play 20 or more minutes in Seattle, her ability to run an offense and to contribute to it, might come back.


If she's gonna be treated as a central part of the team here, then we can all just forget about the Storm being contenders this year. Again: unless Clark sits out, KML is moved, and/or Langhorne is moved, where is she going to find her minutes? We better see some of those moves happening.

Quote:
This also means that it’s almost a certainty at this point that the Storm’s other remaining Unrestricted Free Agents, Courtney Paris, Shavonte Zellous, and Blake Dietrick will not be returning to Seattle for the 2020 season.


This is probably the only quote I really liked in the whole article, and even this won't be true until the day the roster is finalized - and even then...


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