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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Reeve is the first woman to win Executive of the Year. This is the first time Exec of the Year and Coach of the Year are from different teams.

2019 WNBA BASKETBALL EXECUTIVE OF THE YEAR VOTING RESULTS

Executive, Team, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Total
Cheryl Reeve, Minnesota 4, 2, 2, 28
Dan Padover, Las Vegas 4, 1, 4, 27
Mike Thibault, Washington 2, 2, 3, 19
James Wade, Chicago 1, 2 — 11
Curt Miller, Connecticut 1, 1, 1, 9
Jim Pittman, Phoenix — 2 — 6
Penny Toler, Los Angeles — 1, 1, 4
Greg Bibb, Dallas — 1 — 3
Jonathan Kolb, New York — — 1, 1



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 10:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Mercury's Mitchell wins Most Improved

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/27641406/source-mercury-mitchell-wins-most-improved

Quote:
Mitchell previously won the award in 2010, when she played for the New York Liberty. She is the only player in WNBA history to win this honor twice, and she is the first Mercury player to claim the prize.


Confused

This is always a weird award, but it is particularly weird to give it to someone who got it before.

Normally it is, "Hey, you sucked before, but now you are better!" For Mitchell this year, it's "Hey, you sucked, then got better, then got worse again, then got better again ... "

It's silly.


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PostPosted: 09/18/19 12:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
I'm trying to figure out who wouldn't have had Reeve in at least their top 3 for GM of the year. Sure, there's reasonable options to go with as far as order for your top three...but not even in it?

Drafted ROY at 6, traded end-of-bencher for SIms who became an All-Star, got Dantas by clever usage of guarentees, got Lexie Brown for their second second-round pick, and added Talbot for a second-rounder as well. You could even add in getting Shepard in the second round based on her early play but her injury makes that a small sample size.

Anyway, it was a hell of an impressive off-season, and as far as GM moves go, one I'd stack up against any other GM in the league. So...not even top 3 for three teams?

I know this probably sounds like a silly thing to worry about, but there is an underlying thought bouncing around in my head that is what really lead to this...do some WNBA GMs really not pay that close of attention to their league and all its happenings? Who all the players are, where they are going, what teams are making what moves? If they don't, it would explain some things...


It doesn't take much skill to draft Collier when she's still available at #6 and is the player you really wanted and player various people thought is best all-around player in draft, or trade for a player (Sims) that their team is looking to get rid of—it's all luck. So maybe other GMs are as impressed as I am. Though trading for Liz because you're the only team left in the running for her and Dallas is willing to get anything for her isn't very impressive either. And I'm not sure what any other GM did this past year to get a first place vote, unless it's just re-signing free agents. Overall I think Executive of the Year is a silly award because most moves pay off years down the road (like how draft picks and acquisitions Thibault made in past seasons have Mystics a top team today).


toad455



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
2019 WNBA MOST IMPROVED PLAYER VOTING RESULTS

Player Team Votes

Leilani Mitchell Phoenix Mercury 27

Odyssey Sims Minnesota Lynx 5

Jordin Canada Seattle Storm 3

Mercedes Russell Seattle Storm 3

Erica Wheeler Indiana Fever 2

Alysha Clark Seattle Storm 1

Natasha Howard Seattle Storm 1

Aerial Powers Washington Mystics 1


Really thought this would be closer between Mitchell and Russell. Mitchell has Taurasi to thank for her increased minutes this season.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 4:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
justintyme wrote:
I'm trying to figure out who wouldn't have had Reeve in at least their top 3 for GM of the year. Sure, there's reasonable options to go with as far as order for your top three...but not even in it?

Drafted ROY at 6, traded end-of-bencher for SIms who became an All-Star, got Dantas by clever usage of guarentees, got Lexie Brown for their second second-round pick, and added Talbot for a second-rounder as well. You could even add in getting Shepard in the second round based on her early play but her injury makes that a small sample size.

Anyway, it was a hell of an impressive off-season, and as far as GM moves go, one I'd stack up against any other GM in the league. So...not even top 3 for three teams?

I know this probably sounds like a silly thing to worry about, but there is an underlying thought bouncing around in my head that is what really lead to this...do some WNBA GMs really not pay that close of attention to their league and all its happenings? Who all the players are, where they are going, what teams are making what moves? If they don't, it would explain some things...


It doesn't take much skill to draft Collier when she's still available at #6 and is the player you really wanted and player various people thought is best all-around player in draft, or trade for a player (Sims) that their team is looking to get rid of—it's all luck. So maybe other GMs are as impressed as I am. Though trading for Liz because you're the only team left in the running for her and Dallas is willing to get anything for her isn't very impressive either. And I'm not sure what any other GM did this past year to get a first place vote, unless it's just re-signing free agents. Overall I think Executive of the Year is a silly award because most moves pay off years down the road (like how draft picks and acquisitions Thibault made in past seasons have Mystics a top team today).

"It's all luck"

-Armchair GMs since the dawn of sports.

Have you considered why Collier dropped to 6? Why the Lynx coveted her while other teams didn't? The Lynx were the team that looked at her and saw a 3 (and potentially a 4). Instead of a "tweener" with no great fit, the Lynx saw a player that could play both positions well. And Shelley Patterson had identified something she could fix in Collier's shot.

Teams make their own luck by being proactive, scouting heavily, and making sure they can capitalize on errors if other teams make them. Dantas wasn't luck, it was smart maneuvering after targeting a huge upside player that loves playing in Minnesota. Brown wasn't luck, it was identifying an underused player with huge upside buried on a roster and then working the phones to make it happen. Same with Talbot.

All of this was gets to the point of my initial post. To be a good GM, it takes just as much awareness of what other teams are doing and what the construction of their rosters are and what players fit in their plans (and which ones don't), as your own. If there are GMs who don't have this sort of awareness of other teams, it would explain why some teams seem to struggle so frequently. Because Luck is just a retired NFL QB.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 5:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luck is the residue of design ...



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StevenHW



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Reeve is the first woman to win Executive of the Year. This is the first time Exec of the Year and Coach of the Year are from different teams.

2019 WNBA BASKETBALL EXECUTIVE OF THE YEAR VOTING RESULTS

Executive, Team, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Total
Cheryl Reeve, Minnesota 4, 2, 2, 28
Dan Padover, Las Vegas 4, 1, 4, 27
Mike Thibault, Washington 2, 2, 3, 19
James Wade, Chicago 1, 2 — 11
Curt Miller, Connecticut 1, 1, 1, 9
Jim Pittman, Phoenix — 2 — 6
Penny Toler, Los Angeles — 1, 1, 4
Greg Bibb, Dallas — 1 — 3
Jonathan Kolb, New York — — 1, 1


Not that it matters much, but how could anyone vote for Greg Bibb or Jonathan Kolb?



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
pilight wrote:
Reeve is the first woman to win Executive of the Year. This is the first time Exec of the Year and Coach of the Year are from different teams.

2019 WNBA BASKETBALL EXECUTIVE OF THE YEAR VOTING RESULTS

Executive, Team, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Total
Cheryl Reeve, Minnesota 4, 2, 2, 28
Dan Padover, Las Vegas 4, 1, 4, 27
Mike Thibault, Washington 2, 2, 3, 19
James Wade, Chicago 1, 2 — 11
Curt Miller, Connecticut 1, 1, 1, 9
Jim Pittman, Phoenix — 2 — 6
Penny Toler, Los Angeles — 1, 1, 4
Greg Bibb, Dallas — 1 — 3
Jonathan Kolb, New York — — 1, 1


Not that it matters much, but how could anyone vote for Greg Bibb or Jonathan Kolb?

Knowing you can't vote for yourself...



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Randy



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 6:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I question if Toler deserve any votes. She signed a player with felony charges pending. She sat back and Chiney demanded a trade to her team - allegedly to improve her work-life balance. Had she actually done anything, it would be tampering. She gave away Sims for next to nothing. About her only accomplishment seems to be signing TRP and drafting Brown while good moves -do they offset the rest.



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SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:

"It's all luck"

-Armchair GMs since the dawn of sports.


I never heard of that. And drafting a player who every Lynx fan I follow on Twitter wanted when the Lynx were on the clock, signing a player who wanted to return to the Lynx and who Shades already had a contract offer ready for and trading for players whose team wants to get rid isn't anything that impressive.


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
(like how draft picks and acquisitions Thibault made in past seasons have Mystics a top team today).


Delle Donne and Toliver wanting to play close to home was some brilliant GMing. Rolling Eyes



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 8:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
justintyme wrote:

"It's all luck"

-Armchair GMs since the dawn of sports.


I never heard of that. And drafting a player who every Lynx fan I follow on Twitter wanted when the Lynx were on the clock, signing a player who wanted to return to the Lynx and who Shades already had a contract offer ready for and trading for players whose team wants to get rid isn't anything that impressive.


Yeah - Shades was the one who brought up bringing back Dantas. Maybe Shades should get the award. As for Collier - the players after her in the draft were not nearly as promising. Brown was taken next - but they already had Teflon Syl. None of the rest were inspiring.

However, when I look at the GM's that got votes I think they all deserved the award even less. Razz



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 9:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
justintyme wrote:

"It's all luck"

-Armchair GMs since the dawn of sports.


I never heard of that. And drafting a player who every Lynx fan I follow on Twitter wanted when the Lynx were on the clock, signing a player who wanted to return to the Lynx and who Shades already had a contract offer ready for and trading for players whose team wants to get rid isn't anything that impressive.

So why were the Lynx the ones able to make the deal for the players the teams "wanted to get rid of". Surely if it's not impressive, all the GMs were aware of this fact. So since it was luck, did they all just draw straws?

And Collier, sure it made sense to everyone to draft her at 6 (though I do remember someone on this board being pissed as hell that they didn't draft Brown...), but what does that say about all the other GMs who let her slide? The Lynx had identified Arike and Collier as their two coveted players before the draft. Would the Lynx fans have been as smart had the Lynx been drafting #3 and say, Arike and McCowan went 1 and 2? How many would have been screaming for Young or Durr and been pissed as hell when they went Collier.

And just because someone else identified Dantas as a potential signing doesn't make it any less impressive of a maneuver that she pulled off.

And most importantly, it isn't that she just did any one of these things, it's that she did all of them.

If you are going to criticize a GM when they make mistakes, which last year there were plenty of, you have to be willing to praise the good and shrewd moves as well. You can't just blame a GM when things turn out poorly then thank luck when things go right. Either they have agency or they don't.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 9:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
StevenHW wrote:
pilight wrote:
Reeve is the first woman to win Executive of the Year. This is the first time Exec of the Year and Coach of the Year are from different teams.

2019 WNBA BASKETBALL EXECUTIVE OF THE YEAR VOTING RESULTS

Executive, Team, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Total
Cheryl Reeve, Minnesota 4, 2, 2, 28
Dan Padover, Las Vegas 4, 1, 4, 27
Mike Thibault, Washington 2, 2, 3, 19
James Wade, Chicago 1, 2 — 11
Curt Miller, Connecticut 1, 1, 1, 9
Jim Pittman, Phoenix — 2 — 6
Penny Toler, Los Angeles — 1, 1, 4
Greg Bibb, Dallas — 1 — 3
Jonathan Kolb, New York — — 1, 1


Not that it matters much, but how could anyone vote for Greg Bibb or Jonathan Kolb?

Knowing you can't vote for yourself...


I wonder what Alisha Valavanis, Chris Sienko, and Pokey Chatman are thinking, "I got no votes, but Kolb did?"

So Reeve barely edged out Padover by 1 point. This is a first time GM. Do we really give him all that credit instead of Laimbeer?



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 7:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/27648460/delle-donne-win-second-wnba-mvp

Quote:
For the second time in her career, Washington's Elena Delle Donne has been voted the WNBA's MVP



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 8:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/27648460/delle-donne-win-second-wnba-mvp

Quote:
For the second time in her career, Washington's Elena Delle Donne has been voted the WNBA's MVP

The only real question was if it was going to be unanimous.

It wasn't. 41 out of 43 votes. Sloot got the other 2. I suppose if I squint my eyes real hard I can kind of make out a case for Sloot by playing that old "what does 'valuable' mean?" game.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 8:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I told y'all Sloot was the Wild Card towards unanimity. There was no making a case to put anyone ahead of EDD based on the traditional MVP signifiers. You can make a case that Sloot, in her own way, is as valuable to her team as anybody.



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 8:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
I told y'all Sloot was the Wild Card towards unanimity. There was no making a case to put anyone ahead of EDD based on the traditional MVP signifiers. You can make a case that Sloot, in her own way, is as valuable to her team as anybody.

Or it's just 2 petty Sky fans? Laughing


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PostPosted: 09/19/19 8:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Player, Team 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Total Points
Elena Delle Donne, Washington 41 — 2 — — 420

Brittney Griner, Phoenix — 16 6 6 7 167

Jonquel Jones, Connecticut — 10 8 10 5 145

Nneka Ogwumike, Los Angeles — 5 13 8 4 128

Natasha Howard, Seattle — 7 10 6 4 121

Courtney Vandersloot, Chicago 2 3 3 4 13 81

DeWanna Bonner, Phoenix — 1 — 2 2 15

A’ja Wilson, Las Vegas — — — 3 1 10
Sylvia Fowles, Minnesota — — — 2 3 9

Liz Cambage, Las Vegas — — 1 — 2 7

Arike Ogunbowale, Dallas — 1 — — — 7

Chelsea Gray, Los Angeles — — — 1 2 5

Courtney Williams, Connecticut — — — 1 — 3



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 9:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I find the one second place vote for Bonner far less defensible than the two firsts for Vandersloot.



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 9:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Player, Team 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Total Points
Elena Delle Donne, Washington 41 — 2 — — 420

Brittney Griner, Phoenix — 16 6 6 7 167

Jonquel Jones, Connecticut — 10 8 10 5 145

Nneka Ogwumike, Los Angeles — 5 13 8 4 128

Natasha Howard, Seattle — 7 10 6 4 121

Courtney Vandersloot, Chicago 2 3 3 4 13 81

DeWanna Bonner, Phoenix — 1 — 2 2 15

A’ja Wilson, Las Vegas — — — 3 1 10
Sylvia Fowles, Minnesota — — — 2 3 9

Liz Cambage, Las Vegas — — 1 — 2 7

Arike Ogunbowale, Dallas — 1 — — — 7

Chelsea Gray, Los Angeles — — — 1 2 5

Courtney Williams, Connecticut — — — 1 — 3


Do I read that right? The other two votes for EDD were for third?

I would really like to know who those voters are -- I'm guessing they're from Chicago, and still feel slighted.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 9:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
I find the one second place vote for Bonner far less defensible than the two firsts for Vandersloot.


Or the 16 who didn't vote for Howard at all.


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PostPosted: 09/19/19 9:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Congratulations to EDD on #2!




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PostPosted: 09/19/19 9:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
I find the one second place vote for Bonner far less defensible than the two firsts for Vandersloot.

Absolutely. Then there's the second-place vote for Ogunbowale. And someone thought Courtney Williams was the fourth-best player in the league?

Personally I also think Griner in second is a pretty heavy stretch, but clearly the weight of general opinion is against me on that one...



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 10:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
pilight wrote:
I find the one second place vote for Bonner far less defensible than the two firsts for Vandersloot.

Absolutely. Then there's the second-place vote for Ogunbowale. And someone thought Courtney Williams was the fourth-best player in the league?

Personally I also think Griner in second is a pretty heavy stretch, but clearly the weight of general opinion is against me on that one...


I can at least understand the argument for Ogunbowale being second. It's not a good argument, but it follows from the bad premise. I can't see the reasoning that puts Bonner 2nd with EDD or Sloot first.



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