RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

New York Liberty 2020
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 34, 35, 36 ... 39, 40, 41  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 647
Location: Seattle, WA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/11/20 9:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
OK

trying to see what PX could give up to get both Charles and Diggins-Smith

the only answer I can come up with is Griner

so 3 team trade
PX get Charles and Diggins-Smith
Dallas get Griner and Pick #7
NY gets Stevens and Pick #2 pick (Cox or Sabally)


Dallas imo shouldn’t get another first rounder if they’re already getting Griner, who I at least would deem to be the crown jewel of this trade. In this scenario, I’d reallocate that 7th Pick to New York, since they’re the ones that are net-losing a star player (Charles). Cambage cost Las Vegas four different assets - no reason why that wouldn’t be approx. equal for Griner & Dallas (Stevens, Diggins-Smith, #2).

Even then, there are just too many big-time assets in this scenario to determine individual values + how to split the assets up evenly in order to achieve value equality. Good luck to these three GMs on collabing if these are the pieces involved. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 20853



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/11/20 9:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You do wonder if this is Tina asking for the trade or Kolb/Hopkins wanting to take the team in a different direction? Tina had her worst season last year, so if we get a young PF(Ndour? Stevens?) and another first-round pick, it should be a win for us.



_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 5381



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/11/20 9:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yes whether this is Charles idea or the teams is a good question.

I could see Charles wanting to go for a championship and not wanting to wait for NY to get there. But I could also see after the Westchester exile Charles wanting to come back in style in Brooklyn at Barclay's.

I could also see management realizing they aren't going to make it in Charles window and wanting to cash in on Charles and,

while some might not think this is important if management is all in on Ionescu as the new leader/face of the franchise maybe moving on from Charles is the best way to do that.

I remember the year that CHarles joined Pondecter in NY it didn't really work I always suspected the trade of Pondexter for Prince was about letting Charles no it was her team more than about getting Prince

but I could also see the team thinking that with Ionescu and Charles and a few tweaks they could compete sooner rather than later

so it is curious what is NY's motivation in this


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9164
Location: Dallas , Texas


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/11/20 10:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tbh I’m not that thrilled about seeing Sabrinas Pick and roll game destroyed by Tinas Mantra to Pick and pop to shoot 3’s and fade-away jumpers.



_________________
3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 5381



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/11/20 11:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

so let's say it is B. Turner and #5

Ionescu/Clarendon/Boyd
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Allen
Zahui B/#5 (Mompremier, Hebard or Holmes)/Gray
Stokes/B. Turner

so let's say it isn't that, yikes. (It is totally going to be that).

well we could still upgrade with a free agent or two

keeping it young maybe Copper?


Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 9929
Location: Tiburon, CA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/11/20 11:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Yes whether this is Charles idea or the teams is a good question.



I think it could go either way, and whichever side it was, I wouldn't blame them... Confused

The way I see it, we're officially in the Superteam Era... What I thought was going to happen in the NBA a few years ago (when Kevin Durant signed with GSW), is now happening in the WNBA... Idea

When Angel joined the Las Vegas superteam, the best way to compete for a Title now is to form a superteam of your own, or just wait until Las Vegas' Championship window closes. And if you can't come close to putting together a superteam, you may as well just go into rebuild mode, such as with ATL and now NY. In the NBA, teams just decided to wait for GSW's window to close. 5 years and 3 Titles later... Exclamation

As for the players, they want to win now too, and not wait ~5 years, so I wouldn't blame them for wanting to move, especially now that they have this new CBA. Toliver and Sykes went to the LA superteam, Bonner to CON, and now Charles and Diggins-Smith to PHO. So whether it was Charles or the LFO, it likely was the decision to make. Confused

And I was looking forward to seeing SI play with Tina... Such as life...
Shocked



_________________
2002 WNBA Virtual GM Overall Winner
2006 WNBA Triple Threat Overall Winner
2007 NBA ESPN Fast Break Overall Winner
bluedevilaztecfan5



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 182
Location: San Diego, CA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 12:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
so let's say it is B. Turner and #5


Oh my Sad

But to be honest that might be the best we can get, so I hope we get #5!

Because what about Dallas? I doubt 7, 10, 17 would be enough for Diggins-Smith.
I also don’t think Phoenix gives up Griner. Because Taurasi/Charles/Diggins-Smith doesn’t challenge Vegas Washington LA or Connecticut.

Say we do get #5 🙏🏽 I would go for Bella if available, then Hebard, then Mompremier.

Ionescu/Clarendon/Boyd
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Allen
Alarie/Turner/Gray
Zahui B/Stokes

#13 maybe Cooper or Landrum to challenge Boyd for the 5th guard spot, or is a placeholder for Johannes. Xu over Gray, Raincock-Ekunwe to challenge Gray if she comes over.


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 5381



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 12:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I will have to keep my eye on Allarie if we end up with 5 or 7 (I still think Holmes becomes something in the W in a couple of years but we'll see)

Basically if PX pulls it off here is what is probably available for both Charles and/or Diggins-Smith

picks 5, 7, 10
2021 PX's pick and/or Conn's pick (I could see either NY or Dallas being offered the better of those two picks as one of the assets)
and/or
players
B. Turner, S. Cunningham, A. Smith, Y. Turner, B. January


bluedevilaztecfan5



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 182
Location: San Diego, CA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 1:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I will have to keep my eye on Allarie if we end up with 5 or 7 (I still think Holmes becomes something in the W in a couple of years but we'll see)

Basically if PX pulls it off here is what is probably available for both Charles and/or Diggins-Smith

picks 5, 7, 10
2021 PX's pick and/or Conn's pick (I could see either NY or Dallas being offered the better of those two picks as one of the assets)
and/or
players
B. Turner, S. Cunningham, A. Smith, Y. Turner


https://goprincetontigers.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster/bella-alarie/16321

Bella’s stats.

5, Turner, Conn 2021 pick for Charles
7, 10, Cunningham, PHX 2021 pick for Skylar
Or swap the picks around, depends I guess who is valued more at this point.

If we get 7 and 10 I wouldn’t mind Alarie, Holmes, Landrum (13).


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 53551



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 1:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Spooner, I think PHX is going to want to keep most of their rookies from last year because they are cheap, and they have at least one year of familiarity with the team. Keeps them from having to get a bunch of unfamiliar cheap FA’s to fill in the roster.

The player you’re completely forgetting is January. She has two years guaranteed at old max left on her contract. Why they gave her so much, who knows? PHX is going to prefer to make her part of the trade deal, or else dump her salary with some other team. Who between DAL and NYL could use January? Not really a position of need for either team.

Maybe PHX can sucker Reeve into trading for her... possibly giving them back Talbot in return, who they probably never wanted to part with in the first place.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 5381



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 1:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Spooner, I think PHX is going to want to keep most of their rookies from last year because they are cheap, and they have at least one year of familiarity with the team. Keeps them from having to get a bunch of unfamiliar cheap FA’s to fill in the roster.

The player you’re completely forgetting is January. She has two years guaranteed at old max left on her contract. Why they gave her so much, who knows? PHX is going to prefer to make her part of the trade deal, or else dump her salary with some other team. Who between DAL and NYL could use January? Not really a position of need for either team.

Maybe PHX can sucker Reeve into trading for her... possibly giving them back Talbot in return, who they probably never wanted to part with in the first place.


I added January to my list above but I agree that neither NY or Dallas will need her, or for that matter if she will want to show up for either of those teams.

Pilight made it sound like PX couldn't afford the 3 new super max players, along with DT and January so I also agree that they will try to hold onto their younger players and at least one of their 1st round picks, but the younger players are more likely what NY and Dallas would want along with picks because they are both building and even ig they are demanding trades Diggins-Smith and Charles are worth more than table scraps.

(Also won't be surprised to see Mitchell only show up after the Olympics on a smaller contract for PX if Washington doesn't dangle her away).

Since NY and Dallas are both rebuilding maybe it will be

#5 and 2021 1st round pick for one
#7 and 2021 1st round pick for the other?

I wonder if PX could get away with

January, SDS, DT, Charles, Griner
1/2 a season of Mitchell, Cunningham, A. Smith B. Turner
pick 10, 18 and 19
cut or trade Y. Turner


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 53551



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 1:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

C’mon, Spooner. You know established Australians don’t miss time for Olympics.


How about?
DAL gets:
January + #7 + CON first in 2021 for Diggins

NYL gets:
#5 + #10 (or Smith) + PHX first in 2021 for Charles



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 5381



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 1:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
C’mon, Spooner. You know established Australians don’t miss time for Olympics.


How about?
DAL gets:
January + #7 + CON first in 2021 for Diggins

NYL gets:
#5 + #10 (or Smith) + PHX first in 2021 for Charles


I could see Mitchell and PX get behind the 1/2 season idea if it saves them money and allows them to keep other assets. Also isn't Mitchell competing with two other American born player (Griffin and Seekamp) for that one naturalized spot, it would suck to get injured in a June game in the W and miss out. Not saying it will happen bt it is both sneaky and easy to rationalize on the part of PX and Mitchell

I am also guessing that the trades are a little cheaper then 3 pieces because both Dallas and NY are kind of coming from a weaker position, we all know SDS wants out and even if Charles doesn't want out she will get the max next season or for a couple of seasons and is definitely in a slow decline so NY can either just keep her, pay her and be happy that she is finishing her career in NY with an up ans coming young team or trade her to a team she wants to go to most likely competing for a ship who will give up something but probably not as much as we think they should for the last year or two of Chaarles' career.

Dallas has a lot of assets already for 2020 so maybe they get #5 or 7 and 2021 1st round pick

and NY get #5 or 7 and B. Turner or Cunningham

PX gets to keep one 1st rounder, 1 2021 1st rounder and two of Turner, Smith and Cunningham for cheap contract purposes.

I kind of hope Charles ends up staying in NY but it feels like a done deal because of the Bonner move.




Last edited by J-Spoon on 02/12/20 2:03 am; edited 1 time in total
Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 19900



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 2:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Also isn't Mitchell competing with two other American born player (Griffin and Seekamp) for that one naturalized spot

Seekamp is fully aussie, but yes - she is competing with 2 others: Griffin and Whitcomb.
She seems to be Brondello's favoured option of the three though. The only times Griffin or Whitcomb have played for the Opals were when Mitchell was unavailable.



_________________
Is there gas in the car?
Yes there's gas in the car.
Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 647
Location: Seattle, WA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 2:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jonathan Kolb better be playing hardball. New York should have the most leverage in this scenario since Tina Charles ain't exactly demanding out as far as we know; and on the surface they have the least incentive to trade her, and thus should only trade her if the package is solid. Charles has shown great durability her entire career and thus should be perceived to have several more healthy years left in her, and Phoenix could be convinced by Kolb that last year was simply a down year given the ineptitude of the previous Liberty coaching staff. To trade Charles, they'll need to involve Dallas and its big bucket of assets to give up the goods. None of this "pile of rando first-round picks in return" crap; Phoenix was lucky to trade away Bonner for that package since she could've just signed with the Sun if she really wanted to. As previously suggested by J-Spoon, I'd require a healthy Azurá Stevens to go along with two more assets chosen from the following group: The 5th Pick, The 7th Pick, Kayla Thornton, Allisha Gray. I'd only accept two assets in the form of Stevens and The #2 Pick. If New York's only trading partner is Phoenix and Phoenix won't give up Griner, then they've already been played/played themselves. The Liberty's back in a big-league arena in the boroughs now - their first big splash ought not to be shitty like a superstar-for-broken-parts trade would be. Kolb better know better.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 21857
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 2:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whether it was her idea in the first place or not, Charles has to want to be making this move. She's a cored UFA, so they can't trade her without her agreeing to the contract and the move.

It's bizarre to me that she would stick around through all the Westchester crap and then leave her hometown team when they're finally heading back to Brooklyn and a proper arena. Maybe Liberty management came to her and said they'd like to retool and go young, and she said "fine, fuck it, I'll go if I'm not wanted", but still weird.

Also amazing that Phoenix could come into the offseason with only 5 players under contract and nothing much to trade, and somehow come out of it with Diggins-Smith and Charles.



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 5381



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 2:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I hope you are right Stormeo

I would love for Charles to finish out in NY

But I feel some sort of inevitability behind this move. I don't think PX let Bonner go, I think they had been working this deal, told Bonner they weren't going to give her the max, but would as a Thank you and to help themselves out get Bonner the extra 30K in the super max to let her move on with a team she sort of chose.

I also don't think NY is in as strong of a position nefotiating wise as it might seem. Charles would 1 have to want to go to agree to the deal in the first place and 2 because she was cored would have to agree to the team she was being sent to. Charles if not staying in NY would want to go to a contender so that eliminates so teams and if this deal was being worked on she might even being saying that PX is where she really wants to go.

Obviously NY could just keep her, I hope they do tbh, but if they are trading her both Charles and the team she is going to also have some leverage. As much as I love Charles she is on the down side of her career and being cored means she will get the super max for her next deal so PX can say this is the best we can do take it or leave it and NY can leave it and keep Charles probably for 2-3 more season at max in a slow decline, or hit the reset button with whatever they are offered a decent pick and a young player with upside is better than nothing if you are not on board with trying to make it happen in the next few seasons with Charles on the team or you want to save money for your upcoming max players or future free agents in a year or two when the new Liberty are close to competing.

IDK I hope I am wrong but I feel like with Ionexcu as the new face, a new coach and a very young core the Liberty might be resetting the time table and Charles might not be a part of that vision. If so I am all with doing better in the trade but won't be shocked when the return is underwhelming.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 53551



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Am I the only one who remembers that Hopkins came in pointing out that Charles needed to change her game to a more efficient style? Maybe Charles isn’t receptive to change to her game. She’s been chucky Charles for a long time now. Maybe she was looking for glowing praise instead of critical analysis of her game right off the bat. Maybe.

Do you know who the Liberty could draft with that #5 pick? Ruthy Hebard. Talk about instant chemistry and increasing the comfort level of your #1 pick, your new franchise player. Then maybe you could also dump Boyd’s contract on ATL for Cazorla.

This all-new fresh approach for the Liberty might be the best way to go.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 3172
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 10:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Am I the only one who remembers that Hopkins came in pointing out that Charles needed to change her game to a more efficient style? Maybe Charles isn’t receptive to change to her game. She’s been chucky Charles for a long time now. Maybe she was looking for glowing praise instead of critical analysis of her game right off the bat. Maybe.

Do you know who the Liberty could draft with that #5 pick? Ruthy Hebard. Talk about instant chemistry and increasing the comfort level of your #1 pick, your new franchise player. Then maybe you could also dump Boyd’s contract on ATL for Cazorla.

This all-new fresh approach for the Liberty might be the best way to go.


At the time of the initial Hopkins press conference, a few of us noted his critical comments about Tina Charles. I thought those comments were quite striking given the setting: public statements at his welcome to New York.



_________________
"Go out and fight so life shouldn't be printed on dollar bills."--Clifford Odets, Awake and Sing (1935)
bluedevilaztecfan5



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 182
Location: San Diego, CA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Jonathan Kolb better be playing hardball.
As previously suggested by J-Spoon, I'd require a healthy Azurá Stevens to go along with two more assets chosen from the following group: The 5th Pick, The 7th Pick, Kayla Thornton, Allisha Gray. I'd only accept two assets in the form of Stevens and The #2 Pick. If New York's only trading partner is Phoenix and Phoenix won't give up Griner, then they've already been played/played themselves. The Liberty's back in a big-league arena in the boroughs now - their first big splash ought not to be shitty like a superstar-for-broken-parts trade would be. Kolb better know better.


I hope so 🙏🏽
If we get Gray, Stevens/5, 7 I would be super happy! But also happy to keep Charles.
I know Diggins-Smith wants out, but I wonder how little Dallas is willing to receive? There doesn’t seem to be enough from Phoenix for both the Liberty and the Wings.

As WNBA09 said in the other thread, this is an active offseason and I love it!


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 5381



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So Dallas got 3 first round picks including the two decent ones in 2020 so I don't think they have enough left for Charles unless they can get a 3rd team involved.

So does NY continue shopping Charles? (I could see Chicago or Minny possible taking a shot if they want to enter the arms race). Or does PX pull off some sort of ccheaper 3 team deat?
Or does she stay in NY?


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 53551



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’m not a huge fan of Charles’ game if you didn’t catch the chucky Charles adjective.

I love the wait and see game. Some teams are making moves that will require them to practically give away some decent players, kinda like what happened for the Lynx last year.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 3172
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 3:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm hoping that Tina Charles stays in Brooklyn.

I was opposed to New York going after Angel, Bonner, or Diggins-Smith. I hadn't considered that Charles might be elsewhere. Rather than a total rebuild, I'd prefer to have one veteran star, Tina Charles, there along with all our team's young talent. Yes, Charles isn't the player she once... but with better teammates she doesn't have to be.



_________________
"Go out and fight so life shouldn't be printed on dollar bills."--Clifford Odets, Awake and Sing (1935)
bluedevilaztecfan5



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 182
Location: San Diego, CA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I too hope Tina gets to stay in NY. I was ready to rock the season with her in the lineup.

I was excited to see the pick n roll with her and Ionescu, with Zahui B on the 3pt line (along with Durr and Nurse) to take away the other teams shot blocker and give Tina space to operate inside against her defender or Sabrina’s.

The HPH Megdal article said the Mercury were in advanced talks to acquire Diggins-Smith and Charles according to “multiple league sources”.
Hopefully Kolb sees what Dallas got, and will not settle for less value.


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 20853



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/12/20 6:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Where will Tina go?

https://twitter.com/TBRBWAY/status/1227736900015923200



_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 34, 35, 36 ... 39, 40, 41  Next
Page 35 of 41

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin