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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 01/11/20 11:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm very excited about Johannes. But no way would I rush to trade Asia Durr or make her a bench player for 2020. For the reasons well expressed by root_thing and for other reasons as well.

For Durr's 2020 season, for whatever games we may have Johannes, let's give Hopkins and Kolb a chance to have a long look at them. Both players were WNBA rookies in 2019 and neither played a full season. Each had some great and not-great moments. I say it's too early to make a decisive judgment on either. Plus we have no idea how either will respond to Hopkins' coaching.

Finally, yes, part of this evaluation should be on what Johannes says and shows regarding her priorities for playing in the U.S. vs. Europe.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 11:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hey you can send Durr on down south to Texas I’m sure she wouldn’t mind??? Very Happy Very Happy



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toad455



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty ain't doing the following things:

1. Trading the #1 pick.
2. Trading Durr because she missed the second half of the season due to injury.
3. Not re-signing Charles.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On paper, some kind of Durr for Diggins trade (other players TBD) might make sense. It works for NY because Sabrina then remains at SG and we wouldn't have to worry if she can play PG full-time. For Dallas, it only makes sense if you view Arike's transition to PG as permanent. Can Durr and Ogunbowale co-exist as a backcourt? Maybe. Based on last season, Asia wouldn't shoot and Arike wouldn't stop. That's a match! Wink However, I'm not sure if Walt Hopkins -- Mr. Camaraderie, Chemistry, and Sacrifice -- would be happy with SDS. He might think she's too much of a diva. Plus a player development guy like him probably prefers to mold a 23-year-old rather than take on someone turning 30.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 1:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't see Arike working out as a full time PG. Just shouldn't happen.



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Hey you can send Durr on down south to Texas I’m sure she wouldn’t mind??? Very Happy Very Happy


WNBA 09 wrote:
Keywords : Ionescu and Chennedy on the same team? Hmmmmmm just speculating here


(I love Durr and have her jersey, am perfectly content not trading with Dallas, and don’t want to see her go)
But Durr for #2? I don’t know if Carter (who I’ve only really seen in highlights) fits the eliminating/limiting long 2s approach Coach is going for? She’s an explosive 1 on 1 player for sure though who can be a playmaker (from highlights lol)

Durr+#13 for Diggins-Smith+#9?

Skylar in 7 games (20.1mpg) for Team USA
7.3ppg, FG 43%, 3P 57% (1.7 made per game), FT 50% (3-6), 2.4rpg, 3.6apg, 1.3spg, .6bpg, 1TO, .9PF

I really like Asia’s upside, despite her injury concerns (I consider groin injury from college and her rookie season a concern), and she’s much younger than Skylar. I’m not sure 9 or 13 in this draft will be more than end of bench players (steals can happen of course like our recent #10 pick).
I’m curious to see how Skylar does in Serbia.


5thmantheme



Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 01/12/20 2:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:

Liberty ain't doing the following things:

1. Trading the #1 pick.


Let's say ATL dangles : #4 pick and proof of healthy Angel who's up for the deal
Question


NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
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PostPosted: 01/12/20 3:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Durr creates her own shot as well as anyone in the league and was averaging 11 ppg while rarely touching the ball until her injury. Then her stats went south and she was unable to play just as Katie changed the offense after the all-star break. It’s also possible that the torn labrum didn’t just happen in one specific instance and that it’s bothered her for longer than just when she sat out. Nothing I’ve read about the nature of the injury is worrisome long term.

To me Sabrina’s spot is PG. I’m not concerned about ball pressure because of the spacing of the WNBA game and the significant young perimeter talent on the Libs. Trapping Sabrina is going be more risk than reward in my eyes.

Diggins is intriguing but I think she’s lost a step though. I still think Durr is going to be really good too. I’d rather look to give Stokes some support than anything.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 3:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Hey you can send Durr on down south to Texas I’m sure she wouldn’t mind??? Very Happy Very Happy


WNBA 09 wrote:
Keywords : Ionescu and Chennedy on the same team? Hmmmmmm just speculating here


(I love Durr and have her jersey, am perfectly content not trading with Dallas, and don’t want to see her go)
But Durr for #2? I don’t know if Carter (who I’ve only really seen in highlights) fits the eliminating/limiting long 2s approach Coach is going for? She’s an explosive 1 on 1 player for sure though who can be a playmaker (from highlights lol)

Durr+#13 for Diggins-Smith+#9?

Skylar in 7 games (20.1mpg) for Team USA
7.3ppg, FG 43%, 3P 57% (1.7 made per game), FT 50% (3-6), 2.4rpg, 3.6apg, 1.3spg, .6bpg, 1TO, .9PF

I really like Asia’s upside, despite her injury concerns (I consider groin injury from college and her rookie season a concern), and she’s much younger than Skylar. I’m not sure 9 or 13 in this draft will be more than end of bench players (steals can happen of course like our recent #10 pick).
I’m curious to see how Skylar does in Serbia.


Last years injury for Durr was misdiagnosed as a groin. It was actually a torn hip labrum, unrelated to the groin injury.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 3:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

5thmantheme wrote:
toad455 wrote:

Liberty ain't doing the following things:

1. Trading the #1 pick.


Let's say ATL dangles : #4 pick and proof of healthy Angel who's up for the deal
Question


Not me. I’m against trading #1 period and against trading Durr for an older player. The only player I’d trade Durr for value-wise and need-wise would be Collier. And after I got mostly ripped on here for saying the Libs should take her at 2, now there’s no chance the Lynx would do that trade.

Otherwise stick with what you’ve got. What’s the rush? You have 3 definitive core young players talent-wise along with the core player who can actually facilitate for teammates. If you wind up in the lottery (I don’t see it but you never know) then you get a fourth core young player. If you’re any good the ensuing years are just gonna get better as Durr, Nurse and Sabrina improve.

I just don’t see much downside to being patient with this group no matter what this year’s results are. And since there’s actually legit talent here along with a coach who talks like he understands how he should use it, I’m pretty much down to see where that leads in 2020 and beyond.



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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 01/12/20 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 3:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
On paper, some kind of Durr for Diggins trade (other players TBD) might make sense. It works for NY because Sabrina then remains at SG and we wouldn't have to worry if she can play PG full-time. For Dallas, it only makes sense if you view Arike's transition to PG as permanent. Can Durr and Ogunbowale co-exist as a backcourt? Maybe. Based on last season, Asia wouldn't shoot and Arike wouldn't stop. That's a match! Wink However, I'm not sure if Walt Hopkins -- Mr. Camaraderie, Chemistry, and Sacrifice -- would be happy with SDS. He might think she's too much of a diva. Plus a player development guy like him probably prefers to mold a 23-year-old rather than take on someone turning 30.


PM your way.



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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 01/12/20 4:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Not me. I’m against trading #1 period and against trading Durr for an older player. The only player I’d trade Durr for value-wise and need-wise would be Collier. And after I got mostly ripped on here for saying the Libs should take her at 2, now there’s no chance the Lynx would do that trade.

Otherwise stick with what you’ve got. What’s the rush? You have 3 definitive core young players talent-wise along with the core player who can actually facilitate for teammates. If you wind up in the lottery (I don’t see it but you never know) then you get a fourth core young player. If you’re any good the ensuing years are just gonna get better as Durr, Nurse and Sabrina improve.

I just don’t see much downside to being patient with this group no matter what this year’s results are. And since there’s actually legit talent here along with a coach who talks like he understands how he should use it, I’m pretty much down to see where that leads in 2020 and beyond.


Completely agree. I don't want to trade Durr or Ionescu. I don't want to trade for Angel or Diggins-Smith. Most important, using your words, I favor "being patient" this season with the young players we have. Including Nurse--and Johannes and Han if they're with the Liberty. Give them another season to work with Hopkins and show what they've got. If possible, get another backup post player better than Gray or Raincock-Ekunwe. Then let Kolb and Hopkins consider a big move or two next winter.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 5:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The only change I’m in favor of is adding depth in the middle. As long as it doesn’t involve trading any of the aforementioned players. And since big-time posts such as Griner and Fowles each are happy on their respective teams (Fowles re-signed with the Lynx and turned Reeve down when she was offered an opportunity to move before the season) and Cambage is solidified in Vegas, you’re not getting someone worth trading one of those young players anyway.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree adding ionescu and having a healthy Durr and to a lesser extent Stokes back in the post rotation is enough to improve from last season and build on, even with a fair amount of over seas commitment from some of our players.

If we can get A Copper or McGee Stafford for nothing or there is an end of bench trade or we get lucky at 13 then even better.


bluedevilaztecfan5



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 137
Location: San Diego, CA


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PostPosted: 01/12/20 6:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For sure, personally I am all for moving forward with what we have as the team transitions to Brooklyn, and seeing how they adjust with a new coach/system and #1 draft pick.

Ionescu/Hartley/(one of Boyd, FA/13th)
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Allen
Charles/(one of Rainckock-Ekunwe, Gray, FA/13th)
Zahui B/Stokes/Xu

30/8/2
25/20
27/13
28/2
25/15/5

I’m interested to see if Walt’s system and player development can improve Zahui B’s 3pt shooting even more. I was in LA for the game for her offensive explosion (7-8 from downtown) and it was amazing to see.
Having Charles in the paint one on one against power forwards, with Ionescu, Nurse, Durr and Zahui B (Allen, Johannes, Hartley even Xu off the bench) to kick out to should help increase her FG%.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 6:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Any news about Tanisha Wright?

Given Hopkins' remarks at his press conference--which surely were cleared in advance with Kolb--it seems likely that the Liberty will be hiring three assistant coaches. Hopkins spoke of an offensive coordinator, a defensive coordinator, and a "pulse of the team" coach. I'd love to see Wright in that last role, which would seem a good way to begin her WNBA coaching career. We already saw huddles last season where Wright, rather than Katie Smith, gave instructions and encouragement to Liberty players.

I'm hoping Wright will soon be on our coaching staff.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would hope and assume that Wright will be an assistant coach this season.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 8:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Meant to add: I'd like to see the Liberty have a night this season to honor Tanisha Wright.



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dab44lb



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 10:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/i/status/1216520353561882630

This why I want Ionescu.



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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 11:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Meant to add: I'd like to see the Liberty have a night this season to honor Tanisha Wright.


Really ?



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 01/12/20 11:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Meant to add: I'd like to see the Liberty have a night this season to honor Tanisha Wright.


Really ?


Really. Definitely. Unequivocally.



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Last edited by Bob Lamm on 01/13/20 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 01/13/20 12:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Lib Fan wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Meant to add: I'd like to see the Liberty have a night this season to honor Tanisha Wright.


Really ?


Really. Definitely. Unequivocally. I'm willing to say this many more times if it's important to you. Smile


Its NOT important to me ...why not nominate her for the Ring of Honor too ?

Sorry I dont just see it...but every fan has right to their opinion



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Shades



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PostPosted: 01/13/20 1:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I don't see Arike working out as a full time PG. Just shouldn't happen.


I swear, Jefferson must be the most forgettable PG on the planet. There’s no need for Ogunbowale to convert to a PG. The only reason they put her there last year was because both Jefferson and Diggins were out, and they wanted their best players on the court together. Obviously they didn’t get great results unless you’re a draft junkie and you think getting the #2 pick was a great result.

Yes, Dallas is invested in Jefferson. Remember it and accept it.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 01/13/20 9:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I don't see Arike working out as a full time PG. Just shouldn't happen.


I swear, Jefferson must be the most forgettable PG on the planet. There’s no need for Ogunbowale to convert to a PG. The only reason they put her there last year was because both Jefferson and Diggins were out, and they wanted their best players on the court together. Obviously they didn’t get great results unless you’re a draft junkie and you think getting the #2 pick was a great result.

Yes, Dallas is invested in Jefferson. Remember it and accept it.


Just a matter if Jefferson is invested in Dallas. Let's see if she's in a Wings uniform this season.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 01/13/20 11:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
I swear, Jefferson must be the most forgettable PG on the planet.


Maybe that's because Jefferson has had one good, healthy year -- and that was when Obama was president.



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