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root_thing



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PostPosted: 10/23/19 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What do the Liberty need to consider in their head coach search?

https://highposthoops.com/2019/10/23/who-will-lead-the-liberty-in-2020-prospects-who-could-replace-katie-smith/2/

A lot of touchy-feely stuff, and candidates from all over the place -- including Kelly Graves and Chris Dailey.

Quote:
Katie Smith has one of the sharpest basketball minds. There is no denying that. But something that I’ve speculated before was her inability to establish a team culture based on accountability. In Smith’s two years leading on the Liberty bench, who really was the disciplinarian? That was difficult to see.


Quote:
But the idea of cultural sensitivity is dependent upon having access to resources for international players. While both Han and Johannès got more comfortable as their 2019 season progressed, there was a significant language barrier.

Communication on and off the court is key. Toward the end of the season, I asked Smith about why she was hesitant to install Johannès at the point. She had seven assists in the Liberty’s final game at Westchester County Center against the Fever. While Smith noted her exceptional court vision, her reasoning was in MJ’s lack of command on the court and the ability to actively and aggressively communicate with her teammates.


Quote:
Kelly Graves, who currently serves as Oregon head coach for potential New York 2020 draft pick Ionescu, has been a force behind the development of not only Ionescu, but he coached Courtney Vandersloot at Gonzaga, a 4X WNBA leader in assists.

If Kolb were able to lure Graves out of his last four years with Oregon, I’d imagine Nicole Powell would end up on his bench as an assistant. Powell who along with Ionescu put up multiple triple-doubles in the NCAA tournament, has experience working with the Oregon point guard. Powell was a combo guard at Stanford who specialized in spreading the floor. Her presence could also provide support to Allen, Johannès, Nurse and Durr who are all players with versatility who can all play the wing positions.



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5thmantheme



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PostPosted: 10/23/19 4:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Lib Fan wrote:
I think next season playing at Barclay Center, having the first pick in the draft, and having some good young players already, the Liberty will be able to attract free agents and good coaches . We could not do that at WCC

Opposing teams voiced their displeasure in playing at WCC. Cheryl Reeve was quoted in saying how poor the conditions were there. Locker rooms on the fourth floor. No elevators. A long commute from their hotel & airport. I'm not surprised we didn't get any free agents this past season. Now looking ahead, the Barclays is one of the top basketball arenas in the country and adding the #1 pick should entice a free agent or two to come play in Brooklyn.


It clearly made the opposing teams rather surly !!
Massey has the Libs with the worst home court advantage for this year.
Shouldn't be much of a surprise ...


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 10/23/19 5:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was thrilled to read that Jonathan Kolb sees Marine Johannes as part of the Liberty's future. Obviously no one can be sure how available Johannes will be during the 2020 season. But I love the thought for next year and beyond of having Ionescu, Durr, and Johannes all playing major minutes in our backcourt.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 10/23/19 9:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How about Durr , Diggins-Smith & Johannes? Cool



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 10/23/19 11:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the Liberty give up the #1 pick for Diggins-Smith then that GM needs to be fired, expeditiously.



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dab44lb



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PostPosted: 10/23/19 11:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
If the Liberty give up the #1 pick for Diggins-Smith then that GM needs to be fired, expeditiously.


I'm DAB44LB, and I approve this message.



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PostPosted: 10/23/19 11:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dab44lb wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
If the Liberty give up the #1 pick for Diggins-Smith then that GM needs to be fired, expeditiously.


I'm DAB44LB, and I approve this message.


Diggins-Smith will be 30 years old before the 2020 WNBA season is over. That's among the reasons why I wouldn't trade the #1 pick for her.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 12:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Skylar seems more like an LA glamour and glitz girl to me. I've never seen her express any interest in NY. On the other hand, if McCoughtry really is looking for a new home as a UFA, then she might be a good fit. Angel originally committed to St. John's for college, and she's friends with Tina from being teammates in Turkey. I remember a video shot by Charles where Angel teases us with something like, "You guys should want me in New York." Anyway, McCoughtry is a weirdo and we embrace weirdos in this town. I can envision Angel wandering the streets of New York in constant conversation with Lori Ann -- sort of like Elliot Alderson and Mr. Robot.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 1:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Atlanta cored her in the hope of getting some kind of value (assuming coring still exists in some form), would you give up anything for McCoughtry? She just turned 33, on top of returning from a major injury.

I'd be reluctant to give up anything of real value for her at this point (which in New York's case basically means Nurse, Durr, 2020 #1, or 2021 #1). Certainly worth a punt if it's just as a true UFA, though.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 7:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
If Atlanta cored her in the hope of getting some kind of value (assuming coring still exists in some form), would you give up anything for McCoughtry? She just turned 33, on top of returning from a major injury.

I'd be reluctant to give up anything of real value for her at this point (which in New York's case basically means Nurse, Durr, 2020 #1, or 2021 #1). Certainly worth a punt if it's just as a true UFA, though.


I have been wondering why both Angel and Dream owners act like there is no coring when it comes Angel. Aside from the CBA changing, the only other reason I can think of is that the Dream would have to give her a fully guaranteed max deal for next season, and maybe they don't want to do that.

As for Angel in NY, she said she liked the coasts - so that kind of narrows it down to LA and NY (possibly Seattle and DC as well, though they are not actually "coast" cities.)



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 9:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Neither Diggins or McCoughtry seems like a good answer for a Liberty franchise that really needs to rebuild -- assuming they cost some significant assets.

Now if the Libs could get Diggins for a swap in picks (thus getting Lauren Cox) and a side of cole slaw (Zahui B, say), then it might make sense.

As for McCoughtry, it will be interesting to see how she plays in the twilight of her career. Conceivably she could be a valuable player in limited minutes and a more limited role than in the past, but she could also could disrupt things if she feels she can still play like she did five years ago and expects to treated accordingly.

All of us, though, should be hoping the Liberty become relevant, as their resurgence could be a big boost for the whole league.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 9:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
I have been wondering why both Angel and Dream owners act like there is no coring when it comes Angel.


Not sure where you’re getting this. The real question is why do Liberty fans act like there’s no coring?

Randy wrote:
Aside from the CBA changing, the only other reason I can think of is that the Dream would have to give her a fully guaranteed max deal for next season, and maybe they don't want to do that.


Why wouldn’t they? She’s not worth it? Of course she’s worth it.

Randy wrote:
As for Angel in NY, she said she liked the coasts - so that kind of narrows it down to LA and NY (possibly Seattle and DC as well, though they are not actually "coast" cities.)


She likes coasts. That must explain why she went to school and is setting up a business in Louisville. Must not like them that much.



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 10:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Neither Diggins or McCoughtry seems like a good answer for a Liberty franchise that really needs to rebuild -- assuming they cost some significant assets.


I'm not excited about getting either player whether the cost would or wouldn't be high. Adding a really big-name right now could easily be problematic for the development of the Liberty's young, talented core.


Randy



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Randy wrote:
I have been wondering why both Angel and Dream owners act like there is no coring when it comes Angel.


Not sure where you’re getting this. The real question is why do Liberty fans act like there’s no coring?

Randy wrote:
Aside from the CBA changing, the only other reason I can think of is that the Dream would have to give her a fully guaranteed max deal for next season, and maybe they don't want to do that.


Why wouldn’t they? She’s not worth it? Of course she’s worth it.

Randy wrote:
As for Angel in NY, she said she liked the coasts - so that kind of narrows it down to LA and NY (possibly Seattle and DC as well, though they are not actually "coast" cities.)


She likes coasts. That must explain why she went to school and is setting up a business in Louisville. Must not like them that much.


Shades - the Dream owners stated in the local press that Angel was a FA and they thought she might go elsewhere. No dispute from me about her being a max player, but the Dream owners said they were worried about her health and if you core a player you have to guarantee the contract (it's in the CBA). Angel herself said in a recent interview that she was going look outside of Atlanta, and said she didn't know where but she "liked the coasts." There are links in the Dream thread I believe.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 10:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Okay, I found the article where she says “I like both coasts.” Doesn’t specify it as coastal cities. Could be interpreted as liking both sides of the nation. She probably considers ATL east coast, PHX west coast, etc.

How many times has McCoughtry been cored? Has anybody ever added it up?



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 11:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Okay, I found the article where she says “I like both coasts.” Doesn’t specify it as coastal cities. Could be interpreted as liking both sides of the nation. She probably considers ATL east coast, PHX west coast, etc.

How many times has McCoughtry been cored? Has anybody ever added it up?


I came up with 2 times but can't prove it.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Neither Diggins or McCoughtry seems like a good answer for a Liberty franchise that really needs to rebuild -- assuming they cost some significant assets.


I'm not excited about getting either player whether the cost would or wouldn't be high. Adding a really big-name right now could easily be problematic for the development of the Liberty's young, talented core.

I think it depends on how close you think this team is to contending. If you think the addition of Ionescu, a competent coach and a significant veteran piece can make you a genuine challenger to win things in the next year or two, you go for it; if not, then maybe you back off and let Ionescu, Durr, Nurse, hopefully Johannes, and whoever else might climb aboard develop as a group.

Part of the problem is that these hypothetical vets we're talking about NY being able to chase are perimeter players. You're about to have 4 talented perimeter players under the age of 25 on your roster. What you really need is Sylvia Fowles being a potentially wandering UFA, not a guard/wing. Or for Emma Meesseman to suddenly become unhappy with life in DC.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 12:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:

I think it depends on how close you think this team is to contending. If you think the addition of Ionescu, a competent coach and a significant veteran piece can make you a genuine challenger to win things in the next year or two, you go for it; if not, then maybe you back off and let Ionescu, Durr, Nurse, hopefully Johannes, and whoever else might climb aboard develop as a group.

Part of the problem is that these hypothetical vets we're talking about NY being able to chase are perimeter players. You're about to have 4 talented perimeter players under the age of 25 on your roster. What you really need is Sylvia Fowles being a potentially wandering UFA, not a guard/wing. Or for Emma Meesseman to suddenly become unhappy with life in DC.


I totally agree. What NY needs most is a center. The only reason I brought up McCoughtry is because all the talk on the Atlanta thread -- true or not -- made it sound like she'd be free to leave. If NY could sign Angel without giving up a player or anything significant, there is one very good reason to do it: NY doesn't have a crunch time go-to player. Charles has tried to be that person, but more often than not she fails at making the game-winning or game-tying shot. Angel has proven she can not only make big shots, but she can also carry the team on her back for long stretches during high-pressure situations. As talented as our young perimeter players are, none has demonstrated that ability yet. Ionescu has made big shots in college, but she hasn't proven it on the pro level. You absolutely need a player like that to win championships. So, if NY can pick up McCoughtry for free or on the cheap, then I think it's worth doing. As a complementary move, maybe they could use one of their young guards as trade bait for a center.



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 12:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree that the team's greatest need is now a center. That should be the priority for offseason moves.

Angel McCoughtry is 33 years old. By the end of the 2020 season she'll be 34. By the end of the 2021 season, she'll be 35. If I believed that the current roster + Angel could be a genuine championship contender in 2020, then I'd sign her for the reasons that root_thing has stated. But I don't believe that.

In 2020, Ionescu will be in her rookie WNBA season, Durr her second season, Johannes her sort-of-second season (probably at best adding up to one full season of WNBA games), Nurse her third season. And they will all be playing for a new coach. For me, even with Angel and Charles, that doesn't add up to a championship contender.

I'd prefer to see the Liberty build toward 2021 and beyond. Look for improvement in 2020 among our younger players and improvement as a team. Make the playoffs and get our younger players some playoff experience. And, then, if it seems right, make a move for an aging star.

I fear that in 2020 having Angel on the roster could hinder the development of our younger players. I'd prefer to see Ionescu, Durr, Johannes, and Nurse get more experience taking crucial shots in high-pressure situations.


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PostPosted: 10/24/19 4:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here are some free-agent fringe-WNBA centers (aka post players that are Tina Charles' listed height or taller) that one might think of as at least somewhat relevant. They are arguably your cheapest not-so-young options. Some were in a training camp and/or on a roster for part of the time this past season; the rest were not a part of the league in 2019 at all, but have been at some point within the past 4-5 years. Maybe one of these is a fit for the Liberty, or another team (I'd like my Storm to go after one of these players now that Courtney Paris is off the books lol), in 2020:

Kayla Alexander, 6’4
Adut Bulgak, 6’4
Natalie Butler, 6’5
Cayla George, 6’4
Ruth Hamblin, 6’6
Jennifer Hamson, 6’7
Quanitra Hollingsworth, 6’5
Rachel Hollivay, 6’4
Lynetta Kizer, 6’4
Victoria Macaulay, 6’4
Marianna Tolo, 6’4




Last edited by Stormeo on 10/24/19 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
mavcarter
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PostPosted: 10/24/19 4:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Man that is an underwhelming list.

EDIT: You know what, that list isn’t terrible if you’re looking for a 10 MPG player.



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 5:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
Man that is an underwhelming list.

EDIT: You know what, that list isn’t terrible if you’re looking for a 10 MPG player.


I agree. A few players' W careers have probably run its course (Hollingsworth, Kizer), and some probably don't have the talent (maybe Butler and Hollivay). But I'm willing to believe that most on this list have a good enough skill set and really just need to find that fit.

Although, it's hard to say how available some of these players will be in an olympic year given how many play for non-US countries.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 5:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As I've said before, I'd take a run at McGee-Stafford who is an RFA. She didn't play a lot for Dallas, and if they draft Cox to go with Stevens returning from injury, then Imani looks expendable.

I like Tolo. She has shown an ability to defend bigger players, and she's serviceable on the offensive end. I don't remember LA ever releasing her, and I'm not sure if there is a time limit on reserving. It will be five years since Tolo last played for LA. If Marianna is available (and healthy), she'd be a good fit. Tolo recruited Nurse to play with Canberra, so maybe Kia can recruit Marianna to play in New York.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 5:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In terms of possibly rebranding the Liberty to match the Nets, maybe Tsai waits until 2021 with the 25th anniversary? Wouldn't mind the All-Star Game held in Brooklyn that year, also.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 10/24/19 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
As I've said before, I'd take a run at McGee-Stafford who is an RFA. She didn't play a lot for Dallas, and if they draft Cox to go with Stevens returning from injury, then Imani looks expendable.

I like Tolo. She has shown an ability to defend bigger players, and she's serviceable on the offensive end. I don't remember LA ever releasing her, and I'm not sure if there is a time limit on reserving. It will be five years since Tolo last played for LA. If Marianna is available (and healthy), she'd be a good fit. Tolo recruited Nurse to play with Canberra, so maybe Kia can recruit Marianna to play in New York.


Yeah, there are a decent amount of decent in-league possibilities too that wouldn't involve trades. Maybe Agler doesn't necessarily want IMS like you mentioned back. Maybe Wade/Chicago doesn't core Dolson. Maybe Coates is a UFA (depending on how the Dream signed her after she was cut from the Lynx) and didn't like what she saw in Atlanta. Especially now that the Liberty is back on the map both figuratively and nearly literally, there is a good deal of possibilities.




Last edited by Stormeo on 10/24/19 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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