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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 07/30/20 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Ionescu's 33 points is a season-high for a player - though it's still quite early, let's see how long it takes for anyone else to eclipse that (or maybe she will herself).

And through the first two games, of which every team has played, Ionescu has 13 total rebounds. Idea Fun Fact! Idea She currently has more rebounds than each of these starting post players: Stevens, Swords, Dantas, E. Williams, Meesseman, B. Jones, Ogwumike, Howard, Turner.


It’s beautiful how Sabrina gravitates toward the ball for rebounds, on offense and defense. I hope that rubs off on the rest of the team, that aggressiveness to get after it. I remember one play in particular, Zahui B should have gotten the defensive board but had already started leaking out in transition. She was already on the right wing but it was her ball to go for.


22



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PostPosted: 07/30/20 12:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[/quote]
This was touted as the best developmental staff in the WNBA. It’s certainly early of course. But I’m not seeing stuff that screams “best”. At least not in comparison to other teams in a similar situation.[/quote]

(honestly wondering) Where did this notion of Hopkins/staff as a great/the best developmental coach/es come from?

I do think real development takes a lot more time than the Liberty have had so far, especially as noted with the limited training camp this year....

But was there any evidence (Minnesota examples?) of Hopkins' developmental prowess? If it comes mostly from the Liberty's own comments around the hiring, then it carries more than a few grains of salt.

I remember when Teresa Weatherspoon was touted in her developmental role -- and there at least we had seen skills and experience that serve that role well -- plenty of Liberty fans seemed to think that the team fell short in various ways ('Spoon is a personal favorite of mine, and she may not be the 'best ever,' but I didn't fault her coaching).

I realize the bar is not very high in the history of Wnba coaches, but other than supposedly being a really smart guy, why should we think that Hopkins and staff have come up with new ways to develop players that has never been done before (or done as well)?


myrtle



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PostPosted: 07/30/20 12:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Ionescu's 33 points is a season-high for a player - though it's still quite early, let's see how long it takes for anyone else to eclipse that (or maybe she will herself).

And through the first two games, of which every team has played, Ionescu has 13 total rebounds. Idea Fun Fact! Idea She currently has more rebounds than each of these starting post players: Stevens, Swords, Dantas, E. Williams, Meesseman, B. Jones, Ogwumike, Howard, Turner.


It’s beautiful how Sabrina gravitates toward the ball for rebounds, on offense and defense. I hope that rubs off on the rest of the team, that aggressiveness to get after it. I remember one play in particular, Zahui B should have gotten the defensive board but had already started leaking out in transition. She was already on the right wing but it was her ball to go for.


It's always been a strength of hers...but it also means someone(s) else needs to cover the runout if we're talking o-boards. I think that's also part of developing team chemistry.



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 07/30/20 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote:


It’s beautiful how Sabrina gravitates toward the ball for rebounds, on offense and defense. I hope that rubs off on the rest of the team, that aggressiveness to get after it. I remember one play in particular, Zahui B should have gotten the defensive board but had already started leaking out in transition. She was already on the right wing but it was her ball to go for.


It's always been a strength of hers...but it also means someone(s) else needs to cover the runout if we're talking o-boards. I think that's also part of developing team chemistry.


Agreed! Though at times it seemed Sabrina was the only one crashing the offensive glass Crying or Very sad

It’s interesting different philosophies on offensive boards vs transition defense.
I played point guard and by no means was I an outstanding rebounder, but I often gravitate/anticipate where the ball will go after a shot.
I’ve never coached anything beyond Recreational youth basketball, but I would like to at least see two people crashing the offensive glass. I don’t like the defense having too easy of a time getting the defensive board.

I suppose that’s why I’ve really enjoyed when Odom is in the game, she’s so athletic and goes hard on the offensive rebounding front.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 07/30/20 2:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Is there such thing as . . . a read and don't react offense?


The good news is that that's better than a don't read and don't react offense.

But the more serious question is whether the Liberty are a "don't" react offense or a "can't" react offense. The distinction I'm trying to draw is that in the latter case the players, regardless of their ability to read, don't have the skills or ability to react quickly enough or with high enough quality moves.

It's only a single data point, but any team that starts and gives the second most minutes in a game to Kiah Stokes is, to me, a candidate for a team that doesn't have sufficient player talent. Stokes has been an offensive nothingburger during her entire college and pro careers.
NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/30/20 5:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

22 wrote:

This was touted as the best developmental staff in the WNBA. It’s certainly early of course. But I’m not seeing stuff that screams “best”. At least not in comparison to other teams in a similar situation.[/quote]

(honestly wondering) Where did this notion of Hopkins/staff as a great/the best developmental coach/es come from?

I do think real development takes a lot more time than the Liberty have had so far, especially as noted with the limited training camp this year....

But was there any evidence (Minnesota examples?) of Hopkins' developmental prowess? If it comes mostly from the Liberty's own comments around the hiring, then it carries more than a few grains of salt.

I remember when Teresa Weatherspoon was touted in her developmental role -- and there at least we had seen skills and experience that serve that role well -- plenty of Liberty fans seemed to think that the team fell short in various ways ('Spoon is a personal favorite of mine, and she may not be the 'best ever,' but I didn't fault her coaching).

I realize the bar is not very high in the history of Wnba coaches, but other than supposedly being a really smart guy, why should we think that Hopkins and staff have come up with new ways to develop players that has never been done before (or done as well)?[/quote]

No evidence. Kolb said it was the best player development staff in the WNBA. They touted every player very highly as well. Me personally I’m just waiting and seeing. It’s just a little disappointing to see such obvious mental mistakes and lack of judgment even from vets when there was all this positive talk. But it’s early.



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 07/31/20 8:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/national/story/2020-07-30/liberty-rookie-sabrina-ionescus-ap-diary-playing-again?_amp=true

Quote:
It meant a lot to me to hear from so many of the NBA guys, including LeBron James, Damian Lillard, Ja Morant and Steve Nash. They told me that I looked poised and that I was going to have a great career.

It was also helpful to connect with Steph (Curry) on FaceTime to go over what went right and wrong in the opener.


It’s cool how connected she is and how much some of the guys support her and the WNBA.

Quote:
I know it’s going to be a growing process this year for me and the team, and I can’t wait for us to get our first win.


Hopefully tonight against the Dream Wink
Go Liberty!


root_thing



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PostPosted: 07/31/20 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hopkins said in the press conference that the players were physically being bumped and prevented from making their cuts or they were pushed off their spots. After awhile, they got flustered and abandoned the game plan. The Liberty weren’t tough enough. Walt then blamed himself for not preparing them well. That’s why I was making my point about practices being too easy. It has nothing to do with the talent level. The simple reality is that teams often do not have enough bodies to practice 5x5. Between current injuries, chronic ailments, and fatigue, there are usually people missing. Having practice players is how teams normally get around this problem. However, there are no practice players in the Wubble. So, teams make do with drills and walk-throughs against minimal resistance (no defenders or just coaches) or they play 3x3 and 4x4. All these activities are much less challenging than real games. It probably hurts a team like the Liberty more because they have 10 new players, 7 are rookies, and they are all learning a new system.

As Sabrina soberly noted, this is a process where the team has to slowly piece things together. Think of it as whack-a-mole: fix one problem, another one pops up. If you methodically attack each problem, then the team should slowly get better. Eventually, you will find problems that can’t be fixed. That’s when you replace players.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/31/20 9:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There's a philosophical split on offensive rebounding vs. transition defense.

Gregg Popovich was the first to notably say that he would rather lose out on some offensive rebounding in exchange for better transition defense. I've never seen a statistical breakdown on the relationship between the two and how it plays out scoring-wise, but on the surface, it makes sense that if you crash the boards, you're more vulnerable to transition layups.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 07/31/20 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The 2003 NCAA final really made me question the value of offensive rebounds. Tennessee was just throttling UConn on the boards. The LVs had 14 or 15 O-boards and got nothing out of them but more chances for offensive rebounds and some ugly Ashley Robinson FT misses.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 07/31/20 12:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For the last six years, the Tulsa/Dallas franchise has been either first or second in offensive rebounds. Over that period, they had one winning season.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 07/31/20 1:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The 2003 NCAA final really made me question the value of offensive rebounds. Tennessee was just throttling UConn on the boards. The LVs had 14 or 15 O-boards and got nothing out of them but more chances for offensive rebounds and some ugly Ashley Robinson FT misses.


In fairness though, Tenn in those days was all about beating teams with athleticism, not with skill. So the fact that they couldn't do much with the o-boards when they got them is not nec. indicative of current teams.

As for Sabrina, I don't think she will ever be someone we talk about as a defensive specialist, so if the team can send back a couple of good defenders while she crashes the o-boards it may be a good distribution of talent. And we know she can definitely do something with the ball when she does get that board.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/31/20 7:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It feels like this team just has the worst luck. She still hasn’t come out of the locker room. It’s hard not to think worst-case thoughts.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 07/31/20 8:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sabrina looked pretty calm as she came off the court -- or at least stoic. Not anywhere near as distressed as Nurse who was crying and putting a towel over her head. Hopefully, that's a good sign.

The other rookies played well today. Jones with 20 points in under 21 minutes. Willoughby with 14 points, 3 rebounds, 3 steals, and two blocks. If only she could make her bunnies. After 3 games, Jocelyn is 1-11 inside 9 ft, but 6-8 from over 20 ft. Shook also made an impact with 9 points, 4 rebounds, and 2 blocks. I really think they could have won this game if Clarendon didn't get all ball-hoggy in the 2nd half. She tried to do too much.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/31/20 8:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I mean, if Ionescu is only out a game or two, that's great. Let's pray we get a win by the end of next week.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/31/20 9:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The injuries to Nurse and Ionescu--even if hopefully they both recover fairly soon--again raise the question of why New York is only carrying 11 players on the roster. I haven't understood and I still don't understand.

It was encouraging to see some nice contributions from Jones, Willoughby, and Shook. I assume Walker is still getting back to game shape and I'm eager to see more of her in the coming weeks.

One nice thing in the stats: 11 blocks from six Liberty players (two each from Willoughby, Zahui B., Stokes, Shook, and Jones; one from Odom).

A combined 0-10 from the floor from Zahui B. and Stokes, including 0-5 on threes from Stokes. I was skeptical about expecting a lot from Zahui B. but have hoped I'd be proven wrong. So far she's been very disappointing.

Just hoping, hoping, hoping, that Sabrina's injury is as minimal as possible and can heal as quickly as possible.



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 07/31/20 10:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:

One nice thing in the stats: 11 blocks from six Liberty players (two each from Willoughby, Zahui B., Stokes, Shook, and Jones; one from Odom).

I was skeptical about expecting a lot from Zahui B. but have hoped I'd be proven wrong. So far she's been very disappointing.

Just hoping, hoping, hoping, that Sabrina's injury is as minimal as possible and can heal as quickly as possible.


Loved our aggressive defense, some mental lapses here and there but Jocelyn and Jazmine have great potential.

Count me as someone who expected Zahui B to break out offensively. After 3 games I am disappointed but still hoping to see her in more PnR with Ionescu before completely giving up on her.

Hoping Sabrina and Kia both recover quickly, but I very much hope they and our staff have patience in their return.

Definitely wouldn’t mind signing a combo guard soon...


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PostPosted: 08/01/20 12:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Should NY pick up Paris Kea?

I was trying to think of a non rookie PG who could fill the gap assuming Boyd isn't getting invited back

(according to something I read Burdick is expected yo quarantine for 4 day outside the bubble and a couple more in but could be good to play in a week to 10 days, so getting an outside player in the 12th spot wouldn't take too long if we act fast).

I also wouldn't mind Cuevas-Moore, I enjoyed her that one pre-season she was with the Liberty.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/01/20 12:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The press release said Burdick would be available for practice and games early next week. It sounds like she already did her outside quarantine and now only has to do the 4-day Wubbletine.

We can only hope that the Liberty have someone quietly doing the outside quarantine right now.



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NYSports56



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PostPosted: 08/01/20 3:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oh, for goodness sake, come on now! Game 3, and we've already lost our two best players.

Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? Very good in fact!

There we are, losing 11-0, and I'm ironically thinking "the offense looks like it has a purpose tonight." We weren't even executing it well; passes were not on the mark, shots were missed, but everyone was moving and the spacing felt right. Still, the weight of being down 11 immediately felt crushing. It looked like another game with meaningless garbage-time minutes that don't really say much about the new players we're excited to see.

The Liberty finally scored and started keeping pace for a while. Enter Kylee Shook! Kylee gave us her first positive minutes of the year, jumpstarting the offense and launching the 1st half comeback. I was feeling really good as we blew by the Dream and built a small lead. Without a doubt, we were looking the best we had looked all year.

And then, Sabrina. Come on, basketball gods! We don't even care if we win this year--we just want to watch our players!

But I love the way they finished out the half. And I loved the way they fought back after falling behind a second time, this time without Sabrina. Great job by the other guards in her absence. With some scoring help from the front line, we would have won.

I really liked the way Willoughby played today. She contributed in every aspect of the game. Right now she's my favorite non-Sabrina rookie.

It's another loss, and it's beyond disappointing to see Sabrina go down. But I like the way the coaching staff and team responded to the Game 2 disaster. They came to play today.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/01/20 12:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Post Game Press Conference 7/31: Hopkins, Jones, Clarendon

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/__eDbJj9ARU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/01/20 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sounds like Sabrina is done for the season. So disappointing. Feels as fans like we can never catch a break. Most disappointing of course for Sabrina and the team too. Now we are almost guaranteed a top 3 pick with top 2 being at 75% for whoever has the top odds.

Teams with 3 top two picks typically fare very well, especially when all 3 are impact players. Next year’s draft should provide another impact player at a position of need for NY. I don’t know how long it will take to put all of it together but NY should have four young starters who are impact players next year along with the depth of young talent behind it.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 08/01/20 12:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They're calling it a grade three sprain, which can take awhile to heal, but I'm guessing she'll be back in about a month. Hard to tell.

I personally had one, and while it's painful. You can essentially hold the ankle together with tape and keep playing as long as you can keep the swelling down. I did that for two years. But it probably ultimately requires surgery which I had and it healed nicely over a period of about six months.

She could of course elect to have the surgery right away. Tough break for sure!



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/01/20 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The regular season is only 45 days, and we're already a week into it. If Sabrina comes back after a month there will only be a week left. She might as well get the surgery now and be 100% ready next season.

As far as the draft goes, I'm very doubtful about a college season. Are they putting a bunch of students from different colleges into a bubble? Or are they going to be loosey-goosey like MLB and let people go home at night while also traveling to games? How well is that working? There will be even less discipline with college students. I have a hard time picturing how a college season can take place. Therefore, next year's draft will be even more of a crapshoot than usual. Based on this year's results, everybody said it looks like a weak draft. Well, guess what? Those results are probably the only ones we're going to see.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 08/01/20 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You're probably right and you it would be best for her to get the surgery sooner rather than later, especially now with all the covid stuff and overseas play is still unknown this year - so the timing would be good, career-wise. That is assuming it actually is a ligament tear. That type of injury won't heal on its own no matter how long you put it in a boot.



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