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Randy



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PostPosted: 06/30/20 10:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks bluedevilaztecfan5.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/30/20 10:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have a hard time believing a nine year old can make an informed decision about this



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 06/30/20 10:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
It's a very complicated issue, no doubt, as Renee Richards proved. She transitioned late in life and was very successful on the women's tennis tour despite relatively advanced age. And there's this quote from the Wikipedia page:

Richards has since expressed ambivalence about her legacy, and came to believe her past as a man provided her with advantages over her competitors, saying "Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I'd had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I've reconsidered my opinion."[20][21]


Thanks I actually hadn’t known about Renee Richards!

For sure, I think if say strictly for examples sake someone like Kyle Guy (two way contract rookie for the NBA Kings), 6’1 who is not the most athletic but able to dunk, were to transition now at the age of 22. She would have the advantage of 11+ years of training with male physiology. And 4 years of training for a top men’s college basketball program.

Even after two years of estrogen, and potentially reduced muscle mass and strength, she still has that advantage from all those years of training. She would now have to work harder (according to some studies) to maintain that athleticism, but still possible.

Thus giving her the typical advantage males have to females in athleticism (I’ll make it known I am well aware that many female athletes are way faster/stronger/talented than plenty of males).

But I do think, with more visibility and somewhat societal acceptance, transgender youth are able to start gender affirming work at earlier ages, and at least by age 18.

I work with transgender and lgbtq+ youth for a living, and while some are super proud to be trans, others want nobody to know about their trans identity.
So it goes back to that question of, if someone has legally and physically changed from a young age, does she have any obligation to share she is transgender?

To tie it back to the Liberty, I wonder about Layshia and their advocacy work specifically within the WNBA, and as VP of the players association.

I finally watched the Liberty pride panel, and they did share with Holly, who asked how broadcasters can be an ally to the community and specifically how to refer to Layshia during games, that broadcasters can use Layshia or Layshia’s pronouns of they/them
I had noticed earlier Keia Clarke had used ‘she’ and wondered if Layshia had brought up pronouns with the team yet, and later Layshia said it was a very recent personal conversation about using different pronouns rather than she/her/hers.


bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 06/30/20 11:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
I have a hard time believing a nine year old can make an informed decision about this


There are many people who agree with you, including some doctors.
I've only written letters in support of hormone treatment down to the age of 13. My program works with 12-20 years old typically, with younger allowances. I would consider recommending puberty blockers at age 10 though (see quote below for further info). Every trans person is different in their journey.

This video, from 2014, is a short and good watch at 7 minutes. Meet Ryland of San Diego, he/him/his.

<iframe width="680" height="383" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yAHCqnux2fk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'll say pilight, in my scenario with the 9 year old, she would absolutely be allowed to "socially transition" aka switch from 'boys' clothes to 'girls' clothes, go by a new name and different pronouns, which I would advocate for with family/friends and school. If she still strongly felt and identified female, and was happier after socially transitioning, I would consider with my partner putting her on puberty blockers if she wanted. And if she eventually still felt and identified female and wanted her body to reflect that, I would strongly consider putting her on estrogen.

Unfortunately, I rarely get to work with families like Ryland's. I get to see the unsupportive parents, or kids who have been placed in foster care. I get to see the increase in depression and anxiety, which often comes hand in hand with suicidality (in this case of transgender/LGBTQ+).
People who refuse to shower, or will only shower in the dark. What transgender youth who experience gender dysphoria go through is really difficult for them.

Short article from 2016:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transgender-children-ryland-whittington-parents-share-gender-transition-experience-in-new-book/

Quote:
There are decisions ahead, including whether to eventually give Ryland male hormones.
"Thankfully, there's puberty blockers, which allow us to delay the onset of puberty for a period of time," Jeff said.
"It's important to note that we haven't done anything that isn't reversible
," Hillary said.


I'm happy, I found an update from a few days ago:

<iframe width="1015" height="571" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Pz6vmCJq8sE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

https://www.10news.com/news/local-news/san-diego-family-shares-their-story-about-transgender-child

Quote:
"They think that this is something that just happened overnight. We just made this split-second decision and our son said, 'I feel like a boy'. And we said great. And that wasn't the case."


I don't know if at the age of 12 and entering middle school Ryland has started testosterone. But I can infer that his parents thought to at least put him on puberty blockers to delay puberty.

Sorry to hijack the Liberty thread y'all!
But Layshia brings up an important conversation and aspect of the community that may one day become more prominent.
I hope some of you can checkout the short videos!


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 06/30/20 12:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In a 22 game season, I view the Liberty as likely being somewhere between 8-13 wins, especially with opt outs significantly weakening arguably the league's 3 most powerful teams. If their rebounding, inexperience and defensive deficiencies outweigh their obvious offensive talent, they'll be around 8. If they're third or higher in offensive efficiency and their coaching/player development enables them to tread water in rebounding and defense, they'll be closer to 13.

If they're in the 8-win high-lottery area again, I think 2021's expectations need to be more championship caliber. You'll have a #1, #2, lottery pick and all-star in Nurse. You'll also have enough young pieces that you can make moves for one other missing piece. If they surprise and win 12+, then I think you have to look at developing what they already have and utilizing your young talent to add a veteran piece.

Either way, I think by 2021, a team with this much young talent needs to produce something in line with what similarly talented teams eventually produce. Nurse will be in her fourth year, Durr third, Sabrina second. Walker second. In my view the 2021 team either will need to find a way to play Walker 25-30 mpg or trade her for that missing piece who can do that at either the 4 or 5 spot. The organization itself has articulated that this is the best player development situation in the WNBA. So by next year my expectations are going to be high.

On another note, any word on a schedule?



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 06/30/20 1:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What are everyone's expectations for the 4 spot? If you listen to Kolb/Hopkins, they love Zahui, they love Willoughby, they love Odom, they love Walker and they loved Allen. It's a gigantic lovefest with a clear slant toward small-ball. Willoughby is listed at what 6' 185? Walker is about 5'11"-6' and probably around 180 or so.

I feel like if Walker gets solid minutes, this will be a pretty powerful offensive team but one with obvious deficiencies elsewhere. Can those be overcome with depth, different types of lineups, coaching and player development? I don't know but I'm beyond eager to find out.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/30/20 2:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dear bluedevil,

THANK YOU for the first very moving video about Ryland and for the encouraging and inspiring followup news video. And thank you for sharing all you have about your crucial work. I've just sent you a private message; please take a look when you have a chance.

Bob



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/30/20 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
In a 22 game season, I view the Liberty as likely being somewhere between 8-13 wins, especially with opt outs significantly weakening arguably the league's 3 most powerful teams. If their rebounding, inexperience and defensive deficiencies outweigh their obvious offensive talent, they'll be around 8. If they're third or higher in offensive efficiency and their coaching/player development enables them to tread water in rebounding and defense, they'll be closer to 13.

If they're in the 8-win high-lottery area again, I think 2021's expectations need to be more championship caliber. You'll have a #1, #2, lottery pick and all-star in Nurse. You'll also have enough young pieces that you can make moves for one other missing piece. If they surprise and win 12+, then I think you have to look at developing what they already have and utilizing your young talent to add a veteran piece.

Either way, I think by 2021, a team with this much young talent needs to produce something in line with what similarly talented teams eventually produce. Nurse will be in her fourth year, Durr third, Sabrina second. Walker second. In my view the 2021 team either will need to find a way to play Walker 25-30 mpg or trade her for that missing piece who can do that at either the 4 or 5 spot. The organization itself has articulated that this is the best player development situation in the WNBA. So by next year my expectations are going to be high.

On another note, any word on a schedule?


I find any predictions about the 2020 season (including my own) to be iffy for so many reasons. I can imagine the Liberty winning only eight games out of 22. I can imagine them winning 13 games, though that seems to me much less likely. But the range you've offered is staggering. Eight wins would mean a record of 8-14, a winning percentage of .364, and being in the lottery. 13 wins would mean a record of 13-9, a winning percentage of .591, and at a minimum an outside chance of winning the 2020 championship.

It's even easier to understand if we apply those percentages to a standard 34-game season. A winning percentage of .364 would mean finishing at 12-22 while a winning percentage of .591 would mean finishing at 20-14.

If the Liberty indeed finish at 8-14, then I will stand by my earlier post and hope for a respectable .500 season in 2021 and championship contention in 2022. If the Liberty finish at 13-9, then, yes, 2021 expecations can be, as you've said, "championship caliber."

I'll stick with 8-14 or close to that. If the Liberty finish at 12-10 or 13-9, I'll be stunned and overjoyed.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/30/20 8:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Per her tweets, Amanda Zahui B is with the Liberty now in Brooklyn.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 07/01/20 7:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’m sure it’s technically an open competition for the starting power forward job among Walker, Willoughby, Odom, and Holmes. Hopkins talked about wanting shooters at every position to spread the floor, so losing Allen shouldn’t change that. Walker is the early favorite since she is the best shooter in the group and was also drafted earliest. I assume Megan followed through on her plan to train at a facility in Houston. That could give her a big edge. It seems like a lot of players didn’t have access to gyms or even basketball hoops. For instance, Shook revealed that she hadn’t taken a shot since going into lockdown. Her first access to a hoop in months was when she came to New York last week. Other players have joked about pilates fatigue because they were bored with limited workout options under quarantine. Walker was probably best situated to not only maintain her conditioning and skills, but also to improve them. On the downside, hanging around indoors in Houston now looks a bit scary. With COVID-19 rates climbing fast in that area, Walker left herself more vulnerable to infection.

As far as the team goes, logic and history suggest the Liberty should struggle this year. That’s my official position. However, I’m privately optimistic. It mostly has to do with the new management team. From what I’ve seen so far, Kolb and Hopkins are organized, thorough, and detail-oriented. People like that usually succeed. They even conscientiously invite differing views to ensure the organization doesn’t succumb to groupthink. Kolb spoke about how he and Hopkins would brainstorm to come up with new ideas, but then they would give Shelley Patterson a chance to knock them down. Hopkins described how he let all his assistants interview each draft prospect because he knew they would have different perspectives based on different backgrounds. While some of Hopkins and Kolb’s decisions look surprising, it also appears that the ideas have been debated and thought through.

In short, I just have a good feeling about these guys. I even like that our rookies are a mix of prospect types. Kolb and Hopkins made three conventional picks in Ionescu, Walker, and Willoughby -- skilled offensive players who put up big numbers. Then, they balanced the talent pool with two athletic defensive specialists in Jones and Shook. Finally, management was able to cheaply add (#15 and free) two high ceiling projects in Odom and Holmes. I think by diversifying their collection of talent, they have more paths toward developing good players.

Or I could just be dreaming. Laughing



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PostPosted: 07/01/20 9:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My range of wins was deliberate for some of the above reasons. I think there's a host of unpredictably and lots of factors both in terms of optimism and pessimism.

Reasons for optimism: A major upgrade in PG play (even if Sabrina isn't whatever people feel constitutes a star as a rookie, she's going to be a huge step up over the worst PG play in the league the last two years), sheer talent (the Liberty have quite a bit of it, it's just young and kind of imbalanced), coaching (remember how when Charmin Smith left and the Libs pretty much were horrible afterward...now they clearly have more than one person doing the work and they clearly have a plan), a definitive plan that their talent appears to support, the league itself is going to be way down with significant players opting out, a staff that appears tech savvy...a likely advantage in these times.

Reasons for pessimism: New staff in an unconventional training camp, 7 rookies, personnel not immediately apparently suited for defense or defensive rebounding, even the veterans are young, the players largely have not played together AT ALL (with a limited training camp, on-court chemistry might not be there early on as readily as it will be with some teams), without Tina we don't really know who our go-to scorer is.

I think the energy factor is going to help NY a lot too. They're young. They're fast. They're deep. They have leadership from Layshia and Sabrina. They have players who have traits of good offensive rebounders, a skill which can really energize a team. They're likely to be well-coached. They're going to be running a lot of stuff that Sabrina ran in college.

That said, we've not really seen a team play 3-spot sized players at the 4 spot for long lengths of time and win consistently. We've seen hybrid players like Catchings and Nneka do it, but you're talking about players who have 4-spot defensive and rebounding skills...not to mention 2 all-world players period.

So now that I wrote my usual lengthier-than-needed amount, the reason for my wide range of wins is the wide range of unpredictably we have before us. That goes for NY itself but also for how some other teams will perform as well. A lot of teams have changed radically from a year ago.



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PostPosted: 07/01/20 10:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I appreciate and completely respect what's posted just above by root_thing and by NYL_WNBA_FAN. I have the same optimism in general, just less for the eventual won-loss record in the short season ahead. But really I don't care that much if the Liberty finish 8-14 or 12-10. I care much more about feeling like we're heading in a very positive direction for 2021 and beyond, even if this season is rather bumpy.



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 07/01/20 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Dear bluedevil,

THANK YOU for the first very moving video about Ryland and for the encouraging and inspiring followup news video. And thank you for sharing all you have about your crucial work. I've just sent you a private message; please take a look when you have a chance.

Bob


Glad you were able to check it out Smile


bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 07/01/20 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I had a long post a while back referencing past Mercury and Storm squads.....
But 13 years ago, 2007 champion Phoenix Mercury had Penny Taylor at 6’1 playing the 4 spot.
With Kelly Miller, Cappie Pondexter and Diana Taurasi on the perimeter.
Tangela Smith at 6’3 at the 5 spot.

Perhaps given a few seasons, our young and offensive minded ‘star’ players might emulate that success.

I’m with Bob though, in that for this season I’m not expecting a lot of success record wise. I’m also privately optimistic we sneak into the playoffs, but that would be a pleasant surprise. But I suppose you never know, given the circumstances and short season.
I do hope to see consistency from coaching staff, and players like Sabrina, Asia, Kia, Megan, and Amanda getting a lot of PT and opportunity. I’ll add Jocelyn to that list as well.


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PostPosted: 07/01/20 6:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCHkb6dnXfC/?hl=en

Season finale of Kickin it with Kia, featuring Amanda Zahui B!


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PostPosted: 07/02/20 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty social media with video of Leaonna Odom making 9 straight 3-pointers. That's with good form and a high release. It’s only solo practice and every shot is from the same spot. However, if Odom can actually make open 3’s consistently that would set-up the rest of her game. She could take it to the hoop all day long with her speed and leaping ability.



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PostPosted: 07/02/20 5:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.facebook.com/nyliberty/posts/10157309922337918

No Ionescu, Durr or Stokes.

Also, numbers are now on the player's shorts.



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PostPosted: 07/02/20 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Dear bluedevil,

THANK YOU for the first very moving video about Ryland and for the encouraging and inspiring followup news video. And thank you for sharing all you have about your crucial work. I've just sent you a private message; please take a look when you have a chance.

Bob


Glad you were able to check it out Smile


Thank you for posting the follow-up video. I had seen the initial video, but it was great to see how Ryland and his family are doing a few years later.


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PostPosted: 07/02/20 6:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You guys see the vid of Odom hitting 3s on social media? IDK if it means anything in the big picture but she looked like she might actually be able to shoot better than she did in college.



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PostPosted: 07/02/20 7:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

stokes definitely intends on playing per her instagram


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PostPosted: 07/02/20 7:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nurse and Zahui said that Stokes will be living with them in the bubble. I guess they’re getting a villa. Supposedly Kiah, Durr, Allen, Patterson, and T-Spoon were all on Instagram yesterday as part of the audience for Kickin’ With Kia.

Clarendon is all over the internet, but is she in town? What about Walker and Holmes?


NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
You guys see the vid of Odom hitting 3s on social media? IDK if it means anything in the big picture but she looked like she might actually be able to shoot better than she did in college.

See three posts above yours. Smile



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PostPosted: 07/02/20 7:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Durr has talked A LOT about getting back to playing basketball. It does seem like we have our 12, just a bit odd Ionescu wasn't there.



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PostPosted: 07/03/20 8:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’m surprised they didn’t have Sabrina as a guest on Kickin It With Kia. It would’ve been great to see another side of her. Are the Libs protecting her image this early?


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PostPosted: 07/03/20 9:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jmvcity wrote:
I’m surprised they didn’t have Sabrina as a guest on Kickin It With Kia. It would’ve been great to see another side of her. Are the Libs protecting her image this early?


I wonder what you mean by "protecting her image." If the Liberty executives are intelligent--and it sure looks like they are--they will protect Ionescu by monitoring and limiting the barrage of media requests so she can actually focus on basketball and have a reasonable amount of time for herself.



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PostPosted: 07/03/20 9:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jmvcity wrote:
I’m surprised they didn’t have Sabrina as a guest on Kickin It With Kia. It would’ve been great to see another side of her. Are the Libs protecting her image this early?


What side haven’t you seen? Seems like everything’s out there.



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