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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 3:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Whomever the Cut Stokes or Gray Bibb & Agler better be watching , Id take either of them over Gustaffson or Anigwe tbh !



This is actually why I keep trying to trade Stokes.

Stokes is a WNBA level player (not everyone has to be a star)

and tbh the idea that we might cut her to keep rookie number 5 or 6 offends me

I know it is not what we will do but this is actually the team I would keep and how I would line them up from our options

Ionescu/Clarendon
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Walker/Willoughby
Zahui B/Allen/Gray
Stokes/Han

and Odom is the hardest cut for me of the remaining rookies (No disrespect meant to the rookies, I am just more attached to the players I already know. And keeping it real for every rookie drafted late first round early second round that make it in the W the are more that don't while players that last 3 or 4 years have at least proven themselves and developed something that makes them worth keeping IMO)


ClayK



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 3:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you want to trade a player, the best way to get the best deal is to pretend that you really want to keep her.



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 3:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I haven’t seen or heard Hopkins mention Stokes since he was hired. I already used up my question, but maybe someone else can ask Walt about Stokes for his “Zoom Chalk Talk” on Friday. Smile


What/where is this because I will volunteer to ask the question lol

WNBA 09 wrote:
Whomever the Cut Stokes or Gray Bibb & Agler better be watching , Id take either of them over Gustaffson or Anigwe tbh !


I really do like Gray, she’s a great rebounder and strong, but undersized with not much length to block shots. But amazing hustle and energy, and a wonderful teammate. She got a lot of points off outbacks and that hustle play.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 4:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Whomever the Cut Stokes or Gray Bibb & Agler better be watching , Id take either of them over Gustaffson or Anigwe tbh !



This is actually why I keep trying to trade Stokes.

Stokes is a WNBA level player (not everyone has to be a star)

and tbh the idea that we might cut her to keep rookie number 5 or 6 offends me

I know it is not what we will do but this is actually the team I would keep and how I would line them up from our options

Ionescu/Clarendon
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Walker/Willoughby
Zahui B/Allen/Gray
Stokes/Han

and Odom is the hardest cut for me of the remaining rookies (No disrespect meant to the rookies, I am just more attached to the players I already know. And keeping it real for every rookie drafted late first round early second round that make it in the W the are more that don't while players that last 3 or 4 years have at least proven themselves and developed something that makes them worth keeping IMO)


Sorry, but I find this baffling. You're so attached to Kiah Stokes that you keep advocating trading her?



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 4:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Whomever the Cut Stokes or Gray Bibb & Agler better be watching , Id take either of them over Gustaffson or Anigwe tbh !



This is actually why I keep trying to trade Stokes.

Stokes is a WNBA level player (not everyone has to be a star)

and tbh the idea that we might cut her to keep rookie number 5 or 6 offends me

I know it is not what we will do but this is actually the team I would keep and how I would line them up from our options

Ionescu/Clarendon
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Walker/Willoughby
Zahui B/Allen/Gray
Stokes/Han

and Odom is the hardest cut for me of the remaining rookies (No disrespect meant to the rookies, I am just more attached to the players I already know. And keeping it real for every rookie drafted late first round early second round that make it in the W the are more that don't while players that last 3 or 4 years have at least proven themselves and developed something that makes them worth keeping IMO)


Sorry, but I find this baffling. You're so attached to Kiah Stokes that you keep advocating trading her?


You are confusing advocating with predicting.

I have been predicting a Stokes trade because current management/coaching seems excited for a new direction and while speaking a lot on players like Allen, Johannes and Zahui B have barely mentioned Stokes, another player who was barely being mentioned was Boyd and she is already cut. Also the new regime has laid out a style of play that Stokes doesn't seem a perfect fit for, so it isn't really a stretch to think she may be on the trading block.

Combine that with what looks like to me a perfect fit on another team backing up Cambage in Vegas, with a coach in Laimbeer who keeps working with players he knows (recently Rodgers, Prince, Swords, Warley-Talbert all ended up in Vegas after stints in NY and T. Wright is now his assistant, before that Cash, Pierson and Braxton ended up in NY along with assistant K. Smith (I think Smith actually played for the Liberty as well but could be wrong) and B. Farris who also played for him) so there is a very possible trade partner for Stokes based on fit and history.

I do prefer the idea of her being traded over being cut because I like her and would like to see her get to play somewhere that wants her rather than possibly end up in the same place as Boyd (good enough to be in the W but not a good fit for her current team and with odds stacked against getting picked up because this is going to be a weird season).

It also looks to me like if Stokes is cut (not saying she will be there are other variables at play, mostly if Han Xu comes over or not IMO) it will be so management can keep another one of the 6 rookies we drafted in April, so getting something in return for Stokes is better than just cutting her to roll the dice on rookie 5 or 6.

(hedging; if I did advocate for it at all it was always in the context of her not being on the team seeming unavoidable because of poor fit not as a true preference that she not be on the team. I know in my most recent post I used the word prediction).


root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 5:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote:
root_thing wrote:
I haven’t seen or heard Hopkins mention Stokes since he was hired. I already used up my question, but maybe someone else can ask Walt about Stokes for his “Zoom Chalk Talk” on Friday. Smile


What/where is this because I will volunteer to ask the question lol


I got an invitation. I never know if I'm getting these emails because I'm on their mailing list from before or because I'm now an STH. I suspect in this case it's the latter. The event is on Friday at 2PM. You send in your question with the RSVP, and then they'll send a Zoom link Friday morning.


WNBA 09 wrote:
Whomever the Cut Stokes or Gray Bibb & Agler better be watching , Id take either of them over Gustaffson or Anigwe tbh !


Ndour would probably fit Hopkins' spread-the-floor philosophy. There's probably a trade in there somewhere.



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I know it is not what we will do but this is actually the team I would keep and how I would line them up from our options

Ionescu/Clarendon
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Walker/Willoughby
Zahui B/Allen/Gray
Stokes/Han


I don’t mind this lineup, I would replace Gray with Shook personally.

root_thing wrote:
I got an invitation. I never know if I'm getting these emails because I'm on their mailing list from before or because I'm now an STH. I suspect in this case it's the latter. The event is on Friday at 2PM. You send in your question with the RSVP, and then they'll send a Zoom link Friday morning..


Bummer, wish I could be a STH but that might start to get expensive living cross country lol


Bob Lamm



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Posts: 3394
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 05/19/20 8:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
I know it is not what we will do but this is actually the team I would keep and how I would line them up from our options

Ionescu/Clarendon
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Walker/Willoughby
Zahui B/Allen/Gray
Stokes/Han


I don’t mind this lineup, I would replace Gray with Shook personally.


I agree with you. I definitely would not release Shook. Perhaps she'll prove to be far better than either Stokes or Gray. Perhaps she'll never be as good as either of them. New York needs to find out and (if it's happening) a shortened 2020 season would be worth using to take a look.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 8:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote:

root_thing wrote:
I got an invitation. I never know if I'm getting these emails because I'm on their mailing list from before or because I'm now an STH. I suspect in this case it's the latter. The event is on Friday at 2PM. You send in your question with the RSVP, and then they'll send a Zoom link Friday morning..


Bummer, wish I could be a STH but that might start to get expensive living cross country lol


You're better off. Right now, all we're doing is holding the tickets. Attending games is just a theory.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/20/20 1:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If teams really do need to cut down to 12 players by May 26th, I wonder if the Liberty can just temporarily suspend three people. I haven’t read the new CBA, but under the old one I think they could. New York is so far under the salary cap that they can carry all 15 players plus Tayler Hill’s settlement. However, the three players who are suspended don’t get paid. Normally, this isn’t a problem because the suspended players aren’t with the team and it is clearly justified. However, under current circumstances, no one is with the team. That means, at least temporarily, what we’re deciding is who gets free money and who doesn’t.

So, how do we decide who gets suspended? Well, based on current travel bans, foreign nationals from China, France, and Sweden are not allowed into the country. That means Han, Johannes, and Zahui can’t come over unless they get special permission. Meanwhile, current restrictions allow for normal Canadian commerce as well as workers who regularly travel back and forth over the border for work. I’m sure we can find a way to finagle Nurse into one of those categories. Lastly, as far as I can tell, there was never a ban on travelers from Australia so it looks like Allen is in the clear. Based on the current travel situation, it looks to me like the Liberty can justifiably (or at least legally) suspend Han, Johannes, and Zahui. That leaves New York with a roster of:

1. Ionescu, Clarendon
2. Durr, Jones
3. Nurse, Willoughby
4. Allen, Walker, Odom
5. Stokes, Gray, Shook

Temporarily suspended: Zahui, Johannes, Han

So, all you people who don’t want to make painful decisions can procrastinate a little bit longer.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
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And the crowd that has come
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PostPosted: 05/20/20 1:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I haven't discussed that specific idea with anyone inside the league, but I feel like suspending people for not showing up to a training camp that doesn't exist is something that would be frowned upon by the Players' Association (who the league are currently trying to negotiate with over how to handle all this stuff).

As I said on twitter, I do feel like we need a special rule to handle international players for this situation. Requiring teams to get down to 12 when we don't really have any idea whether some of those players would be able to get into the country for a hypothetical season seems silly to me. You could end up cutting several Americans to get down to 12, then only having about 9 players left once they decide on a season and people start trying to get to it. Do we then just start a mad scramble to re-sign several of the players you cut weeks earlier without ever seeing them pick up a ball?



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/20/20 8:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The whole situation can be described as unfair and unrealistic. We’re just choosing among bad options to arrive at the stated (arbitrary?) goal of 12 players by May 26th.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9483
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PostPosted: 05/20/20 9:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Whomever the Cut Stokes or Gray Bibb & Agler better be watching , Id take either of them over Gustaffson or Anigwe tbh !


Ndour would probably fit Hopkins' spread-the-floor philosophy. There's probably a trade in there somewhere.[/quote]


I doubt Ndour goes anywhere , we gave her max so id expect her to be apart of the team or whatever. Hopefully Alarie is working on that foot speed on the defensive end. I like her on film watching old Princeton games !



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 05/20/20 9:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Whomever the Cut Stokes or Gray Bibb & Agler better be watching , Id take either of them over Gustaffson or Anigwe tbh !


root_thing wrote:
Ndour would probably fit Hopkins' spread-the-floor philosophy. There's probably a trade in there somewhere.



I doubt Ndour goes anywhere , we gave her max so id expect her to be apart of the team or whatever. Hopefully Alarie is working on that foot speed on the defensive end. I like her on film watching old Princeton games !



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 05/20/20 10:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
The whole situation can be described as unfair and unrealistic. We’re just choosing among bad options to arrive at the stated (arbitrary?) goal of 12 players by May 26th.

It's not really all that arbitrary. Feinberg said down to 12, but what it actually is is down to a standard regular season under-the-salary-cap roster (so there are a few teams who'll actually need to be down to 11).



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 05/20/20 11:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
root_thing wrote:
The whole situation can be described as unfair and unrealistic. We’re just choosing among bad options to arrive at the stated (arbitrary?) goal of 12 players by May 26th.

It's not really all that arbitrary. Feinberg said down to 12, but what it actually is is down to a standard regular season under-the-salary-cap roster (so there are a few teams who'll actually need to be down to 11).



Yes, it would be going down to a "standard regular season under-the-salary-cap roster." But there's been no training camp!!! No chance for players on the bubble--whether veterans or rookies--to compete for final roster spots before a possible (likely? definite?) cutdown by May 26th.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/20/20 12:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
root_thing wrote:
The whole situation can be described as unfair and unrealistic. We’re just choosing among bad options to arrive at the stated (arbitrary?) goal of 12 players by May 26th.

It's not really all that arbitrary. Feinberg said down to 12, but what it actually is is down to a standard regular season under-the-salary-cap roster (so there are a few teams who'll actually need to be down to 11).


I understand about the number -- I was referring to the timing. Obviously, we don't know what's going on with negotiations behind the scenes. Supposedly the league has decided they will pay players starting on June 1, and it won't be more than 12 people. We can only assume that this was agreed upon with the Players' Association. However, as you noted yourself, how do teams decide on foreign players when no one knows if they'll be allowed in the country? And then do you cut American players who haven't had a chance to prove themselves in camp only to scramble to re-sign them later if the foreign nationals can't come over? All this for a season that may never happen. That's a lot of uncertainty from which you have to make hard decisions. I still think being allowed to temporarily suspend players -- foreign or American -- makes some sense. Right now, it seems justifiable to suspend foreign players who currently can't enter the country. However, if the players union decides that vets should be protected over rookies, I guess that's OK too.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
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You must barter your life to make sure you are living
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PostPosted: 05/20/20 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Timing's not all that arbitrary either - they're continuing to stick to the paperwork as much as possible (which actually suggests to me that there hasnt been much successful 'negotiating' behind the scenes between the league and the WNBPA). The Standard Player Contract states that players shall receive their base salary "in equal, semi-monthly installments beginning on or about June 1 (but in no event more than two weeks after the start of the Regular Season) and ending on or about September 15". So the league basically doesn't want to be on the hook for more players than they usually would be once it comes time to actually pay people.

That's why this is happening now, rather than any immediate prospect of playing a season.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 05/20/20 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If I was an International player my thought process would be this

If come June 1st or during the 1st pay period there was some form of in person requirement, small practices, physicals, working with team trainers, team meetings with social distancing I would understand being suspended.

But if in June everything is still train on your own and zoom meeting until further notice I would want to be paid.

There are many players in this situation has any distinction been made about being in country or ready to perform certain duties starting at a certain time? I assume International or not most player will be in their homes at least at the beginning of the pay period unless there are other mandates.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/20/20 5:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Timing's not all that arbitrary either - they're continuing to stick to the paperwork as much as possible (which actually suggests to me that there hasnt been much successful 'negotiating' behind the scenes between the league and the WNBPA). The Standard Player Contract states that players shall receive their base salary "in equal, semi-monthly installments beginning on or about June 1 (but in no event more than two weeks after the start of the Regular Season) and ending on or about September 15". So the league basically doesn't want to be on the hook for more players than they usually would be once it comes time to actually pay people.

That's why this is happening now, rather than any immediate prospect of playing a season.


So, the working assumption right now is that the CBA requires players to be paid their full salaries even if there is no season?



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
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PostPosted: 05/20/20 6:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
So, the working assumption right now is that the CBA requires players to be paid their full salaries even if there is no season?

I have no good answer for that and wouldn't like to mislead you by trying to come up with one. As I said right from the start of this, I've found very little in the CBA relevant to how to handle extraordinary circumstances that force the cancelling of games or an entire season. They're clearly intending to start paying players before they know for sure whether they'll end up playing 36 games, zero games, or something inbetween. Where do they go from there? What if the League comes up with a plan for a season, but the players don't like some aspect of that plan and say no? Does the league then stop paying them? Who the hell decides if that plan was reasonable? It's a mess.



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PostPosted: 05/20/20 6:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
root_thing wrote:
So, the working assumption right now is that the CBA requires players to be paid their full salaries even if there is no season?

I have no good answer for that and wouldn't like to mislead you by trying to come up with one. As I said right from the start of this, I've found very little in the CBA relevant to how to handle extraordinary circumstances that force the cancelling of games or an entire season. They're clearly intending to start paying players before they know for sure whether they'll end up playing 36 games, zero games, or something inbetween. Where do they go from there? What if the League comes up with a plan for a season, but the players don't like some aspect of that plan and say no? Does the league then stop paying them? Who the hell decides if that plan was reasonable? It's a mess.


This strikes me a failure on the part of the new Commissioner. The NBA has a provision for this in its' CBA - all they had to do was copy that.



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 05/20/20 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAbbVGZnM1m/?hl=en

I only caught the last few minutes of Kickin it with Kia featuring Kiah.
But I was apparently the only fan question, and I asked Kiah (Stokes lol) how her 3pt shot is looking. That’s literally in the last minute of the video.

She said “pretty good, I’ve been practicing. Just gotta get more confident and actually do it in a game.”
Nurse “picking and popping all day huh”
Stokes “yeah you know, working on it, we’re doing this little small ball, little schtick, so I’m buying in”.

I hope we get to see it!


root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/20/20 8:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAbbVGZnM1m/?hl=en

I only caught the last few minutes of Kickin it with Kia featuring Kiah.
But I was apparently the only fan question, and I asked Kiah (Stokes lol) how her 3pt shot is looking. That’s literally in the last minute of the video.

She said “pretty good, I’ve been practicing. Just gotta get more confident and actually do it in a game.”
Nurse “picking and popping all day huh”
Stokes “yeah you know, working on it, we’re doing this little small ball, little schtick, so I’m buying in”.

I hope we get to see it!


That was pretty much the only basketball comment in the whole segment. The biggest chunk of time was spent discussing toilet paper.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
bluedevilaztecfan5



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 405
Location: San Diego, CA


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PostPosted: 05/21/20 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
That was pretty much the only basketball comment in the whole segment. The biggest chunk of time was spent discussing toilet paper.


Well, at least we know they have a good relationship off court? Lol


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