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Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 05/17/20 11:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Good work Todd!

Your article reminded me of the TV series called "Counterpart". A scientific experiment gone awry produces a parallel earth. The two earths move along in nearly perfect unison until a virus kills hundreds of millions of the population on one of the worlds. Then everything become different and a cold war between the two worlds ensue as the infected world blame the other for the virus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpart_(TV_series)

So the series was cancelled after 2 seasons but one can imagine a scenario where one world has no virus, but Liberty playing Westchester with HLJ the owner, IT as team prez, Katie as coach and no Sabrina, while the other is the current world without a virus but with Joe Tsai, Hopkins, 6 drafts picks including Sabrina, a home in Brooklyn but no basketball......



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 05/17/20 12:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Good work Todd!

Your article reminded me of the TV series called "Counterpart". A scientific experiment gone awry produces a parallel earth. The two earths move along in nearly perfect unison until a virus kills hundreds of millions of the population on one of the worlds. Then everything become different and a cold war between the two worlds ensue as the infected world blame the other for the virus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpart_(TV_series)

So the series was cancelled after 2 seasons but one can imagine a scenario where one world has no virus, but Liberty playing Westchester with HLJ the owner, IT as team prez, Katie as coach and no Sabrina, while the other is the current world without a virus but with Joe Tsai, Hopkins, 6 drafts picks including Sabrina, a home in Brooklyn but no basketball......


Wow! These are our two choices! Can't we have a third world with the Liberty at the Barclay Center, Kolb, Hopkins, Ionescu, our other rookies, our foreign players in New York, no virus anywhere, and today is our home opener? Smile



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 05/17/20 3:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Regarding whether to count Han Xu in or not - what I'm wondering is, did she actually like being in the states last season enough to where she'd want to come back to play here semi-regularly? I remember reading something (I think it was this article) where I couldn't get a good feel on whether or not she was actually enjoying her time living in New York (unless good air quality is that much of a dealbreaker for her Smile ). And as much as the NBA is trying to involve China more, I can't tell how much of a priority getting players from particularly China is for the W. Xu could be 'allowed', per se, to disappear from the W if she doesn't want to continue competing in it.



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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 05/17/20 4:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Regarding whether to count Han Xu in or not - what I'm wondering is, did she actually like being in the states last season enough to where she'd want to come back to play here semi-regularly? I remember reading something (I think it was this article) where I couldn't get a good feel on whether or not she was actually enjoying her time living in New York (unless good air quality is that much of a dealbreaker for her Smile ). And as much as the NBA is trying to involve China more, I can't tell how much of a priority getting players from particularly China is for the W. Xu could be 'allowed', per se, to disappear from the W if she doesn't want to continue competing in it.


I can't recall where the players were living last season, but it was an issue of not having any type of her culture to be comfortable. She wasn't eating and had nowhere to hang out due to the language barrier. I think in a normal setting (no pandemic) that the team's move to Brooklyn would benefit her. Lot's of Chinese cuisine and options to go out and socialize. We won't know if she's comfortable playing here until next season (hopefully).



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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 05/17/20 6:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Threads that might have been...if things were normal

NEW YORK LIBERTY GET OFF TO FAST START 2-0
SELL OUT HOME OPENER AT BARCLAY CENTER

Oh well it would have been a Happy Home Opener
in Brooklyn ! Confused



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/17/20 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Regarding whether to count Han Xu in or not - what I'm wondering is, did she actually like being in the states last season enough to where she'd want to come back to play here semi-regularly? I remember reading something (I think it was this article) where I couldn't get a good feel on whether or not she was actually enjoying her time living in New York (unless good air quality is that much of a dealbreaker for her Smile ). And as much as the NBA is trying to involve China more, I can't tell how much of a priority getting players from particularly China is for the W. Xu could be 'allowed', per se, to disappear from the W if she doesn't want to continue competing in it.


I can't recall where the players were living last season, but it was an issue of not having any type of her culture to be comfortable. She wasn't eating and had nowhere to hang out due to the language barrier. I think in a normal setting (no pandemic) that the team's move to Brooklyn would benefit her. Lot's of Chinese cuisine and options to go out and socialize. We won't know if she's comfortable playing here until next season (hopefully).


The Liberty lived and practiced in Brooklyn last year. They only went to Westchester for games.

The article in question was from DeadSpin. It was early in the season, and some people questioned if the writer was sensationalizing the situation. My guess is that the bigger concern is whether the Chinese basketball authorities are satisfied with what they got from sending her over here. Han didn’t play much – did she improve her skills, learn anything useful or add to the prestige of Chinese basketball? If not, then the Chinese bureaucrats may believe it’s a waste of time. This is unlikely to be solely Han’s decision. That’s why I mentioned in my earlier post that Joe Tsai may need to get involved.



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 1:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hungary’s Sopron Basket signs Megan Walker.



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 3:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/sabrina-ionescu-wnba-season-delayed-liberty-debut-190031582.html

Quote:
But it isn’t going to be easy. Fans shouldn’t expect the same out of the Liberty version of Ionescu at first. It’s a leap from the collegiate ranks to the 140 best players in the world. There will be adjustments.


Hoping we still see her this season in 2020!


bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 5:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/predicitng-the-new-york-liberty-starting-lineup

Quote:
The New York Liberty will be running under first-year head coach Walt Hopkins this upcoming season. Hopkins has made it clear he wants the team to shoot more 3's and isn't afraid to role out a small-ball lineup.


This writer has Stokes with Zahui B, Nurse, Durr and Ionescu starting.

I wouldn’t mind if Stokes starts, for rebounding and defense.
With the other 4 that’s plenty of offensive potential, and 3pt shooting ability.
But I can also see Allen starting over Stokes, and if our offensive efficiency isn’t flowing to outweigh the defensive deficiencies, Stokes or Shook can sub in for Allen.

I personally see:
Ionescu 5’11
Durr 5’10
Nurse 6’0
Allen 6’2
Zahui B 6’5
6. Johannes 5’10 7. Clarendon 5’9 8. Stokes 6’3 9. Walker 6’1
10. Shook 6’4 11. Willoughby 6’0 12. Jones 6’0
13. Odom 6’2 14. Gray 6’2 *** Han 6’9
Maybe Stokes should be at 11 or 12, but I give her the edge because of her experience playing solid defense against the best pros for years.
Walker could also end up beating out Allen for that starting spot later in the season.


toad455



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just due to tenure, I see Allen as the starting 4 with Zahui B at center. Stokes backs-up AZB with Walker at PF. Shook becomes their flex post/5th post player.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 6:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I haven’t seen or heard Hopkins mention Stokes since he was hired. I already used up my question, but maybe someone else can ask Walt about Stokes for his “Zoom Chalk Talk” on Friday. Smile



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I haven’t seen or heard Hopkins mention Stokes since he was hired. I already used up my question, but maybe someone else can ask Walt about Stokes for his “Zoom Chalk Talk” on Friday. Smile


I'd add this:

Hopkins said little about Tina Charles and then she was gone.

Hopkins has spoken glowingly about rookies on our team whose WNBA success certainly is iffy.

Hopkins (or was it Kolb, or both, I can't recall) had lots of praise for Rebecca Allen, who's played four full seasons for the Liberty with mediocre results and no consistency.

And yet not a word about Kiah Stokes.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 7:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am sticking with my two predictions

If there is a season

Han Xu shows up (along with all the Internationals)

Stokes to Vegas for 2021 first round pick
(I have already argued it but main points Vegas/Laimbeer likes players he is familiar with, doesn't need a star, needs a back up for Cambage that he trusts to defend, bang, feed the scorers and be a good teammate. Warley has that role now but Stokes is the younger/better version for that role, giving up pick 9-12 in a weak draft for a known quantity to help win a title in the next two or three seasons seems very possible to me just a reminder Swords for pick 6 A. Montgomery for pick 6 Stokes for pick 9-12 is realistic IMO. OK so with that out of the way). Obviously if there is no season there is no need to do the trade but maybe something happens by June 1st cut down date.

Ionescu/Clarendon
Durr/Johannes/Jones
Nurse/Willoughby
Allen/Walker/Shook
Zahui B/Han

sucks for Odom if there is no camp before cuts if there was a camp Odom would have a chance to out play one of the rookies picked before her but the order they were pick in is a statement of priority unfortunately for her.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 8:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To be fair, Stokes last had a good season in 2016. In sports, four years is forever. Remember 2017? The coaching staff accused her of being out of shape. Then in 2018, Smith didn't seem to trust her and Kiah played the second-fewest minutes on the team. There were rumors she was hurt, but no confirmation from the Liberty. And of course, Stokes decided to sit out last year -- announced belatedly at midseason. Now under Hopkins, Kiah doesn't seem to fit because she can't shoot. Maybe she'll surprise us and suddenly develop a jump shot. However, when last seen, Stokes was basically the same player she had been when she joined UConn in 2011.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 8:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Since J-Spoon continues to promote the notion that Bill Laimbeer will trade a #1 pick for Kiah Stokes, I'll continue to disagree. I'm much more with root_thing's statement that "four years is forever."

In my view, there's quite a reasonable chance that Kolb and Hopkins will release Stokes. Surely the wonderful former LFO has to be wondering.. Even if he wants Stokes for Las Vegas--I'm not at all convinced of that--why would he trade a #1 pick when he might get her for nothing? Because it's so important to him to get Stokes? I don't buy that.

I've always liked Kiah Stokes. I'd be happy to see her on our team and happy to see her surprise us and play at her 2015-2016 level of defense and rebounding, even if she doesn't shoot jump shots. But Kolb and Hopkins have no allegiance to Stokes and it's certainly worth noting (as root_thing has) that they've been so silent about her. My guess: she's going to get released. Perhaps former LFO then signs her; perhaps he doesn't.



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Last edited by Bob Lamm on 05/18/20 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 9:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just to be fair to Rebecca Allen , she played 2 games in 2015, before having a knee injury. Two games is not a full season.



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 9:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I do hope Shook turns out to be the rebounder and defender in the W that Stokes has shown she can be, and has done while overseas playing for top clubs.
Me having Stokes as first post off the bench reflects more of my hopes for what she can bring to this squad, as opposed to the commentary I’ve heard from Walt or Jonathan, so I acknowledge it very well may turn out not to be the case.

Four years ago in the W is forever ago. But in this past offseason for Fenerbace (not the W, but EuroLeague is the next top league), in 14 games Stokes averaged 23.2mpg, 6.4rpg, 1.1bpg, 5.9ppg, FG 55.9% (1/6 from 3, she’s 0/3 in her W career)...compared to teammate (and similar style player) Elizabeth Williams 15 games 32.1mpg, 7.3rpg, 1.6bpg, 11.7ppg, FG 49.3% (0/0 from 3).

To be fair, don’t they kinda have to have glowing remarks regarding all the players they draft? Wink
Though that still does not explain the silence regarding Kiah’s abilities, while praising most other vets on the roster.
Kolb has to like something about her though, signing her to the extension at the end of last season. For comparison, Gray who rebounded really well in limited minutes (5+ boards in 15+ minutes), got a training camp contract. I know Stokes isn’t guaranteed, but still Kolb has to value her somewhat right? Why not wait, even to see how she played in the offseason?

If Shook outplays her offensively and brings similar rebounding and defense, then I’m all for her being ahead on the depth chart.
I just really hope Stokes brings a vet anchor defensively, somewhat of a defensive mentor for Shook (who is talented in that area already).


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 9:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
Just to be fair to Rebecca Allen , she played 2 games in 2015, before having a knee injury. Two games is not a full season.


Yes, Rebecca Allen played only the first two games of the 2015 season for the Liberty. I vividly recall her unfortunate injury that cost her that season.

I said she played four full mediocre seasons for New York, Of course anyone can question my subjective evaluation of her play. But she played 21 games for New York in 2016, 33 games in 2017, 28 games in 2018, and 24 games in 2019. I call that four full seasons, but I guess to be precise I might have said "four full seasons apart from various games lost due to injuries." Certainly what happened in 2015 is irrelevant to what I wrote.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/18/20 10:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shook will not rebound as well as Stokes. Kylee has neither Kiah's strength nor her nose for the ball. It's a trade-off between Shook's better offense versus Stokes's superior rebounding. Also, Stokes's strength will help her defend better in the paint, but Shook has quicker feet on the perimeter. Then, there are the non-basketball advantages for Shook -- she is younger and cheaper.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 2:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah that’s true, and I like what both Shook and Stokes bring to the Liberty.
I prefer Han to Stokes (even though I love her), but personally don’t think she will be here this season (just my guess no real evidence to point that way).

With my thoughts:
Ionescu/Clarendon
Durr/Johannes/Jones
Nurse/Willoughby
Allen/Walker
Zahui B/Stokes/Shook

I think 5 rookies, two second year players (one being very experienced internationally), a third year, and then two young vets to go along with the ‘elder’ vet 29 year old Layshia, could use another young vet in Stokes. Not that she’s known as a vocal leader, but she does have to be somewhat of a vocal defensive leader as the center/paint anchor.

Odom is a fun prospect to think about potential wise, but I prefer some experience to help balance this roster out. And then of course Kiah is familiar and played with Amanda, Kia, and Bec.
Gray is a nice story, but Stokes brings that same rebounding ability, more length, and better defense and shot blocking. Reshanda maybe has better post moves but she’s not too much higher on anyone’s defensive gameplans than Kiah.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the Liberty PR Department is reading our posts because the Kickin' With Kia guest tomorrow is Kiah Stokes. If nothing else it should be pretty funny.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
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PostPosted: 05/19/20 1:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Maybe the Liberty PR Department is reading our posts because the Kickin' With Kia guest tomorrow is Kiah Stokes. If nothing else it should be pretty funny.


LOL.

Will Kia ask Kiah: "So how does it feel to know that on RebKell one devoted fan believes you'll be traded to Las Vegas and other fans guess you may be released?"

Alternately, if Kiah is on with Kia, does that mean she's solid for a roster spot?



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 2:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Maybe the Liberty PR Department is reading our posts because the Kickin' With Kia guest tomorrow is Kiah Stokes. If nothing else it should be pretty funny.


LOL.

Will Kia ask Kiah: "So how does it feel to know that on RebKell one devoted fan believes you'll be traded to Las Vegas and other fans guess you may be released?"

Alternately, if Kiah is on with Kia, does that mean she's solid for a roster spot?


Haha hi Liberty PR Laughing

I don’t think she’s solid for a roster spot, teams advertise players and get rid of them in the blink of an eye. But I hope it’s a good sign lol

Here’s Reshanda on YES, for example and I see her as a super long shot. This video has been the headliner of the Libs website for several days now.

https://liberty.wnba.com/video/yes-were-here-reshanda-gray-x-chris-shearn/


root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 3:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:

Alternately, if Kiah is on with Kia, does that mean she's solid for a roster spot?


It just means that they are keeping up appearances. All 15 players need to look like they have a realistic shot.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 05/19/20 3:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whomever the Cut Stokes or Gray Bibb & Agler better be watching , Id take either of them over Gustaffson or Anigwe tbh !



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