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Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4593
Location: New York City
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 Posted: 02/16/20 7:22 pm ::: |
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So does it break down to:
Guards 1 and 2 - 5
Forwards 3 and 4 - 5
Center 5 -2
12 players ?
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12535
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 02/17/20 11:04 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| I still think the only way Tina goes to Phoenix is that a third team gets involved. Phoenix needs to deal January to make cap space. Minnesota seems like the best choice. Just a matter of what other pieces get dealt. This should get New York another first round pick and maybe Hebert. |
You see, everybody thinks Reeve is everybody’s sucker after the Christmas acquisition and trades of DRob and Howard. She showed signs of improvement last season. I hope she doesn’t regress this season.
Let’s think this through. Why would Reeve want to help make PHX into another superteam? Reeve should like the way PHX is now. She should also like the way the Liberty look now. So let’s keep it that way.
There’s a flood of guards on the market. The Lynx don’t “need” January, and she probably doesn’t want to come here anyway. Any guard that was talking retirement a few years ago isn’t for me. Remember the last guard that talked retirement when she was with the Storm, but Reeve had to have her? Tanisha Wright. |
Should she? They both look to be better than what she has right now so why not capitalize if a player of the magnitude of Charles comes knockin? I personally agree Charles and Fowles does not equal championship at all if anything they will take shots away from each other and become even more predictable to guard speaking for the team as a whole.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
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| Posted: 02/18/20 2:45 am ::: |
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I suppose the Liberty could keep Charles around until as late as midseason. Different players become available; different teams enter the conversation depending on their cap/on-the-court situation. Very possible her numbers improve by then, too. Fans would get to feel good watching her be able to play some games with the Liberty in Brooklyn, and then she can still get traded to a contender after the Olympics/trade deadline in exchange for some sort of package.
Some would call it a “no-man’s land” kind of setup, understandably. Others would call that the best of both worlds, which is probably the camp I fall under. Ultimately though, it’s either 2020 or never when it comes to trading Tina Charles.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63770
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| Posted: 02/18/20 6:29 am ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| I still think the only way Tina goes to Phoenix is that a third team gets involved. Phoenix needs to deal January to make cap space. Minnesota seems like the best choice. Just a matter of what other pieces get dealt. This should get New York another first round pick and maybe Hebert. |
You see, everybody thinks Reeve is everybody’s sucker after the Christmas acquisition and trades of DRob and Howard. She showed signs of improvement last season. I hope she doesn’t regress this season.
Let’s think this through. Why would Reeve want to help make PHX into another superteam? Reeve should like the way PHX is now. She should also like the way the Liberty look now. So let’s keep it that way.
There’s a flood of guards on the market. The Lynx don’t “need” January, and she probably doesn’t want to come here anyway. Any guard that was talking retirement a few years ago isn’t for me. Remember the last guard that talked retirement when she was with the Storm, but Reeve had to have her? Tanisha Wright. |
Should she? They both look to be better than what she has right now so why not capitalize if a player of the magnitude of Charles comes knockin? I personally agree Charles and Fowles does not equal championship at all if anything they will take shots away from each other and become even more predictable to guard speaking for the team as a whole. |
Poor reading comprehension. I was talking about the notion of Reeve taking January off PHX’s hands so that they can free up capital to land Charles.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 02/18/20 10:06 am ::: |
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"Poor reading comprehension."
And why did you need to write that?
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: 02/18/20 1:14 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
"Poor reading comprehension."
And why did you need to write that? |
One of 10,000 ugly posts from Shades. Really disgusting.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 02/18/20 3:07 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
"Poor reading comprehension."
And why did you need to write that? |
One of 10,000 ugly posts from Shades. Really disgusting. |
If I read something wrong, I’d rather have someone point it out as such, as opposed to being called clueless because you disagree my view. Talk about ugly? Nobody ever looks for pretty in your posts.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 02/18/20 3:33 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
"Poor reading comprehension."
And why did you need to write that? |
One of 10,000 ugly posts from Shades. Really disgusting. |
If I read something wrong, I’d rather have someone point it out as such, as opposed to being called clueless because you disagree my view. Talk about ugly? Nobody ever looks for pretty in your posts. |
LOL. I'd have to write 100 ugly posts for 100 consecutive days to catch up with you, Shades. My last comment on this. Keep going. We know you never stop.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12535
Location: Dallas , Texas
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Durham, NC
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
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Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 02/18/20 11:54 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
"Poor reading comprehension."
And why did you need to write that? |
Because people usually don't respond to a post with something that has nothing to do with what the person was (clearly) saying? People here get outraged here for no reason.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 02/19/20 12:28 am ::: |
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Here is my new Charles plan
Re-sign for one year at the max
Let Charles have her swan song with the triumphant return to the city
Re-visit again next off season maybe even just let her be a free agent the way Atlanta let McCoughtry go if she wants to move on she's earned it
Ionescu/Clarendon
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Allen
Charles/Gray
Zahui B/Stokes
pick 2
Boyd, Nayo, #13, Han Xu
tbh I like this team
Last edited by J-Spoon on 02/19/20 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 02/19/20 12:28 am ::: |
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| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
"Poor reading comprehension."
And why did you need to write that? |
Because people usually don't respond to a post with something that has nothing to do with what the person was (clearly) saying? People here get outraged here for no reason. |
And now a defender for ugly. How low can you go. (I don't really wanna know)
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: 02/19/20 12:53 am ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
Here is my new Charles plan
Re-sign for one year at the max
Let Charles have her swan song with the triumphant return to the city
Re-visit again next off season maybe even just let her be a free agent the way Atlanta let McCoughtry go if she wants to move on she's earned it
Ionescu/Clarendon
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Allen
Charles/Gray
Zahui B/Stokes
pick 2
Boyd, Nayo, #13, Han Xu
tbh I like this team |
I think this is what may happen.
Let's say that Charles has expressed interest in heading elsewhere. Or that Kolb and Hopkins have expressed interest in sending her elsewhere, Or both. Lots of big moves have been made in recent weeks. Charles is still on the Liberty at the moment. It's quite possible that various deals involving Charles have been explored. Obviously so far nothing has happened. I could be proven wrong tomorrow, but I'm guessing that nothing will happen this winter involving Charles. Possibly at midseason. But more likely, as you've suggested, next winter.
I continue to hope that Tina Charles stays. That, if necessary, she makes at least truce--hopefully a solid peace--with Kolb and Hopkins. I believe 2020 could be a very intriguing and enjoyable season for the Liberty. Not a championship season, but a very serious step forward.
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bluedevilaztecfan5
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 796
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: 02/19/20 1:08 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
Here is my new Charles plan
Re-sign for one year at the max
Let Charles have her swan song with the triumphant return to the city
Re-visit again next off season maybe even just let her be a free agent the way Atlanta let McCoughtry go if she wants to move on she's earned it
Ionescu/Clarendon
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Allen
Charles/Gray
Zahui B/Stokes
pick 2
Boyd, Nayo, #13, Han Xu
tbh I like this team |
I think this is what may happen.
I continue to hope that Tina Charles stays. That, if necessary, she makes at least truce--hopefully a solid peace--with Kolb and Hopkins. I believe 2020 could be a very intriguing and enjoyable season for the Liberty. Not a championship season, but a very serious step forward. |
J-spoon, I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that Tina can’t be cored again next offseason?
If that’s true, she wouldn’t be allowed to be a free agent she just would be one.
But I agree with you she’s earned it.
And Bob, I’m actually super excited by the potential pick n roll with Tina and Sabrina, with Nurse/Durr/Zahui B spotting up on the 3pt line. I think offensively that lineup can be a problem for teams....and maybe defensively a problem for ourselves 
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24351
Location: London
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| Posted: 02/19/20 2:18 am ::: |
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| bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote: |
J-spoon, I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that Tina can’t be cored again next offseason? |
If she plays this season in New York, it would indeed be her third year playing under the core designation, which is the current limit (drops to two years in 2022). So yeah, if she just signs the one year deal, she'll be a true unrestricted free agent this time next year. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 02/19/20 8:18 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote: |
J-spoon, I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that Tina can’t be cored again next offseason? |
If she plays this season in New York, it would indeed be her third year playing under the core designation, which is the current limit (drops to two years in 2022). So yeah, if she just signs the one year deal, she'll be a true unrestricted free agent this time next year. |
Which might explain the interest in trading her now, while the Liberty can still get something for her.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 02/19/20 8:47 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
| bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote: |
J-spoon, I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that Tina can’t be cored again next offseason? |
If she plays this season in New York, it would indeed be her third year playing under the core designation, which is the current limit (drops to two years in 2022). So yeah, if she just signs the one year deal, she'll be a true unrestricted free agent this time next year. |
Which might explain the interest in trading her now, while the Liberty can still get something for her. |
That's surely part of it (if it's indeed true that the team has interest in trading Charles). But the fact that she hasn't been traded might mean that Kolb and Hopkins aren't satisfied with what other teams have offered. And I certainly wouldn't trade Tina Charles, even just one season of Tina Charles, for what I've seen proposed by people on this board.
One final thing worth noting. The Liberty will have no claim on Charles for 2021 and beyond. That doesn't mean she won't return to Brooklyn. If she isn't traded now, if she and the Liberty can repair any tensions, if the season goes well for her, it's certainly possible that the Liberty might want her back and she might want to return.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 02/19/20 9:47 am ::: |
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It's really interesting how the new cba has influenced player movement. And rumors of such. Just facing facts, I do think Tina can be productive if willing to accept a reduced role. I think it's abundantly clear that she has lost a step as well as some jumping and overall athleticism. In the team USA games you watch her and she looks like she can barely get off the ground. That said, I'm not really eager to see her get dealt because I like her and because her interior ability can still be pretty good when she is at her best.
But the inability to core her after this year, it's obviously a game-changer. Our new analytics-driven organization has to ponder what to do with a player coming off a down, highly inefficient season in which she didn't even command double and triple teams as she once did. What's tough about that is we don't even know where her value lies. Two seasons ago her offensive efficiency was not really at issue.
It's a weird feeling. I don't really want her dealt. You become attached to team fixtures. OTOH it logically makes sense to deal her at this exact time because it's your last chance to do so while you have her rights, and because there's no telling how steep the downside of age 30 and beyond might lie for her.
I'm conflicted. Beyond the attachment to Tina, I think one has to admit that Ionescu, Durr, Nurse and Tina is a pretty talented core of players. Further, knowing that adding a PG of Sabrina's caliber in lieu of the team's prior PG play, it's logical to expect upward mobility. As an organization, I feel that we've seen do their due diligence. They interviewed about 20 candidates for the coaching position. Kolb clearly picked someone he matches well with in terms of the analytics, etc. Their one move (Clarendon) was a tremendous one (CT was 8-1 in games Layshia played LY). It not only adds vocal leadership but also leadership by example. Bringing in Ionescu's vocal leadership (maybe a work in progress) and also her leadership by example (major gym rat) will only add to that. You can tell they get it. They're taking their time and not making any rash decisions, but they clearly understand that culture is important and they're building it accordingly. So while we have no idea where they're going, I trust their decision-making process.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 02/19/20 9:57 am ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| You can tell they get it. They're taking their time and not making any rash decisions, but they clearly understand that culture is important and they're building it accordingly. So while we have no idea where they're going, I trust their decision-making process. |
I agree with all you wrote and especially this. Of course there's lots happening behind the scenes we can't know. But right now I have a very good feeling about the way they're proceeding. They are not rushing into flashy decisions that may work or may be quite problematic. I definitely get the feeling that they are less focused on this season than carefully building a solid base for the long run. I think that's exactly the right approach.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11147
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| Posted: 02/19/20 10:18 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
"Poor reading comprehension."
And why did you need to write that? |
One of 10,000 ugly posts from Shades. Really disgusting. |
If I read something wrong, I’d rather have someone point it out as such, as opposed to being called clueless because you disagree my view. Talk about ugly? Nobody ever looks for pretty in your posts. |
You can point out that someone is wrong without insulting them ...
It just seems so pointless on your part to insult people for no reason -- it doesn't make you look clever or intelligent. It just makes you look bad, and again, for no reason.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 02/19/20 10:22 am ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| I'm conflicted. Beyond the attachment to Tina, I think one has to admit that Ionescu, Durr, Nurse and Tina is a pretty talented core of players. |
Replacing Charles with Hebard is a better core now and for the next decade.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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