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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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 Posted: 09/14/19 9:41 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
That is a brilliant idea. The (W)NBA should do that and hold the lottery in a public park somewhere.
BTW NYL_....- Atlanta takes Ionescu at 1 probably Cox at 2. If Carter comes out then I'd be happy if we could get her at 4. Dream need some excitement. |
I was thinking trade. Libs will have to trade considerable value if they don't get #1 no matter who has it.
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Randy
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| Posted: 09/14/19 9:43 am ::: |
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pilight wrote:
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Atlanta's not getting the #1 pick
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#NA1PT
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 09/14/19 10:21 am ::: |
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| You've got to appreciate pilight's reverse jinx efforts. |
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 09/14/19 10:22 am ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
The thing about Carter that I don't like with the height is her approach to the game in general. At her height, you have to be willing to distribute the ball, which is something that both Lei and Canada do extremely well. I can't say that Carter is a problem child or whatever, but her approach to the game is one of a player who thinks she is far and away the best option on the floor at all times. She shoots 30% of her team's FG attempts at a rate of 40% makes. This is mitigated somewhat by her ability to get to the foul line, but now if you combine FGA and shooting attempts that lead to FT, she's probably close to 40% of her team's offense. That's while having slightly more turnovers than assists. On NY, Tina's going to need her looks. You'd like for Durr and Nurse to get their touches. In Durr's case. you'd like her to be a more significant part of the offense next year. If Carter is the pick, will Durr touch the ball with any kind of consistency? I think that's a fair question. On the Liberty, Carter would become the team's fourth-best player. Will she be willing to perform in that type of role? From what I see I think there's no chance at all.
Atlanta has that miniscule chance of #1. In the extremely unlikely event that Atlanta gets it and NY falls to #3, I could see a scenario where Atlanta would value Carter. Yes, Atlanta has some high-volume shooters, but Carter would fit their pace of play and approach.
The other piece being, if Katie is still the coach, I'd strongly feel she'd want a PG who's a willing passer with an approach that is more facilitator than scorer. |
The one game where I watched Carter in the Pan Am trials, she was not ball-dominant. In fact, she was so invisible in the beginning that I didn't even know she was in the game. On the other hand, she didn't play well. So, I don't know if that had anything to do with Carter restraining herself. I did not see the actual tournament, but the stats indicate she was third in field goal attempts:
Onyenware 21-56 .375
Mompremier 24-51 .475
Carter 22-47 .458
Harris 16-43 .372
Alarie 15-33 .455
Breaking it down further, Carter was fourth in shots per minute:
Mikesell .619
Onyenware .4786
Mompremier .4766
Carter .47
If the Pan Am games are any indication, it doesn't look like Carter is an extreme ballhog. She only had 4 assists in 5 games, but the stats suggest Tyasha Harris and Kiana Williams were handling the PG duties. Nonetheless, I agree Carter is an unproven distributor. However, she could be used off the bench as an explosive boom or bust scorer like Riquna Williams. I'm not a big fan of those types of players, but I've come around to the idea that they have their uses. When you're experiencing a scoring drought, it helps to have someone who can carry the team on her shoulders. Even a conservative guy like Agler found minutes for Riquna Williams when he was in Los Angeles.
Anyway, I know you think the Liberty should trade for Ionescu if they don't get #1. However, if they are unable to pull off a deal, it sounds like you believe Dangerfield would be the choice at #3. Personally, I'm not a big fan of desperation trades. It makes me think of Herschel Walker. If Katie Smith does return, I believe New York is headed back to the lottery next year -- Sabrina or no Sabrina. I wouldn't be so quick to include our 2021 1st Round pick in any deal.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 09/14/19 10:43 am ::: |
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I have heard that Carter is difficult to play with, and not that popular with her teammates.
Don't know if it's true, or would be an issue at the pro level, but it's out there ...
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 09/14/19 10:53 am ::: |
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| Each day that Katie Smith remains our coach worries me. In 2018, 7-27. In 2019, 10-24. Is Liberty management hoping for 13-21 in 2020?
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pilight
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| Posted: 09/14/19 11:12 am ::: |
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| Tina Charles is on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" on NPR today
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NYSports56
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| Posted: 09/14/19 12:13 pm ::: |
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How good is Ionescu?
I'm not a college sports fan, and I don't know if I ever watched a women's college basketball game in its entirety before I watched the two semi-finals games in this year's Final Four. I had been reading the views of everyone here on RebKell and I wanted to see some of the players that they were talking about.
The player I was most interested in watching was of course Ionescu, because everyone here had been treating her like the Babe Ruth of #1 draft picks. I expected to see a woman amongst girls: someone that dwarfed everyone on the court in a Michael Jordan-like manner. I didn't see something quite as transcendent.
I was blown away by Sabrina's passing ability: she seems to have the ability to deliver crisp pinpoint passes with both hands from every angle. I love brilliant passers! And there's nothing more important in a point guard than passing ability.
But her shooting didn't overwhelm me; as I recall, she was missing almost everything in the first half, and then got hot in the second half. Not that this means anything in a one game sample, but even when she was hot, I didn't see a beautiful "can't miss" stroke when she was shooting.
Her defense was good, but again, nothing that made me stand up and take notice.
The thing that really bothered me the most was her drives to the basket. I expected to see a player who could break down defenses at will, and I didn't see that at all. Her drives seemed awkward and ineffective. That's a pretty big deal for a point guard.
Yes, it is a one game sample that means almost nothing. But it's all my eyes have ever seen, so I've got to ask those of you who know more: is she really that good?
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 09/14/19 12:17 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
The thing about Carter that I don't like with the height is her approach to the game in general. At her height, you have to be willing to distribute the ball, which is something that both Lei and Canada do extremely well. I can't say that Carter is a problem child or whatever, but her approach to the game is one of a player who thinks she is far and away the best option on the floor at all times. She shoots 30% of her team's FG attempts at a rate of 40% makes. This is mitigated somewhat by her ability to get to the foul line, but now if you combine FGA and shooting attempts that lead to FT, she's probably close to 40% of her team's offense. That's while having slightly more turnovers than assists. On NY, Tina's going to need her looks. You'd like for Durr and Nurse to get their touches. In Durr's case. you'd like her to be a more significant part of the offense next year. If Carter is the pick, will Durr touch the ball with any kind of consistency? I think that's a fair question. On the Liberty, Carter would become the team's fourth-best player. Will she be willing to perform in that type of role? From what I see I think there's no chance at all.
Atlanta has that miniscule chance of #1. In the extremely unlikely event that Atlanta gets it and NY falls to #3, I could see a scenario where Atlanta would value Carter. Yes, Atlanta has some high-volume shooters, but Carter would fit their pace of play and approach.
The other piece being, if Katie is still the coach, I'd strongly feel she'd want a PG who's a willing passer with an approach that is more facilitator than scorer. |
The one game where I watched Carter in the Pan Am trials, she was not ball-dominant. In fact, she was so invisible in the beginning that I didn't even know she was in the game. On the other hand, she didn't play well. So, I don't know if that had anything to do with Carter restraining herself. I did not see the actual tournament, but the stats indicate she was third in field goal attempts:
Onyenware 21-56 .375
Mompremier 24-51 .475
Carter 22-47 .458
Harris 16-43 .372
Alarie 15-33 .455
Breaking it down further, Carter was fourth in shots per minute:
Mikesell .619
Onyenware .4786
Mompremier .4766
Carter .47
If the Pan Am games are any indication, it doesn't look like Carter is an extreme ballhog. She only had 4 assists in 5 games, but the stats suggest Tyasha Harris and Kiana Williams were handling the PG duties. Nonetheless, I agree Carter is an unproven distributor. However, she could be used off the bench as an explosive boom or bust scorer like Riquna Williams. I'm not a big fan of those types of players, but I've come around to the idea that they have their uses. When you're experiencing a scoring drought, it helps to have someone who can carry the team on her shoulders. Even a conservative guy like Agler found minutes for Riquna Williams when he was in Los Angeles.
Anyway, I know you think the Liberty should trade for Ionescu if they don't get #1. However, if they are unable to pull off a deal, it sounds like you believe Dangerfield would be the choice at #3. Personally, I'm not a big fan of desperation trades. It makes me think of Herschel Walker. If Katie Smith does return, I believe New York is headed back to the lottery next year -- Sabrina or no Sabrina. I wouldn't be so quick to include our 2021 1st Round pick in any deal. |
If the Liberty have a lineup of Ionescu/Durr/Nurse/Tina/Stokes and Katie can’t coach a team with that much talent to a 20+ win pace over the course of the season I’d like to think a new coach would be brought in well before the season spirals out of control.
On Carter, I think Riquna Williams-like usage could be beneficial. That’s just not what I’m looking for with a lottery pick right behind Ionescu and Cox, two potential franchise players. On trading for someone like Ionescu, the hope would be that a predominant ball-handler in basketball has more of an impact on a team than most other sports. The fact is, however, had we traded the #1 pick the other times I’ve wanted to do it through the years (Langhorne, Powers, Brown) the outcomes of each of those would not have been positive.
I’d like to think Ionescu is unique enough to transcend the value of an additional draft choice. Thinking also to the Libs’ record minus Charmin Smith the last two years, it’s abysmal. When you say you think any pick resultant from a Katie-coached team could be a lottery pick..I totally get it. If she lasts another whole season, it’s part of the equation and there’s no getting around that.
But if you ask me whether I would trade two lottery picks for Ionescu, honestly the answer is an unequivocal yes. I think she’s that unique a player.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 09/14/19 12:25 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Tina Charles is on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" on NPR today |
https://www.npr.org/programs/wait-wait-dont-tell-me/
Not much about basketball, but from what I heard of the show as a whole, it was pretty funny. They had some choice comments about the new Ms. Monopoly game. As for Tina, her game questions involved dog sled racing.
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
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| Posted: 09/14/19 12:39 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Each day that Katie Smith remains our coach worries me. In 2018, 7-27. In 2019, 10-24. Is Liberty management hoping for 13-21 in 2020? |
You cannot keep Katie coaching these players. It was a mistake to keep her this year. Even the best of seasons have slumps. When the 2020 Liberty have a bad streak, and they're in the locker room looking for their coach for guidance, the person they see CANNOT be Katie. They need to see someone different: someone whose words have not been proven empty for two straight years. What's she going to say to them that she hasn't said already? How effective is it going to be when the players remember that it's the same thing she said the last time, and that it didn't work then, so is it really going to work now?
Bringing Katie back normalizes losing. It's what the players are used to. When those slumps happen, they need a reason to think that this time will be different and that they'll turn it around rather than falling into the abyss of a huge losing streak.
Bringing Katie back also shows that, just like with the previous regime, no one ever gets held accountable for anything in this organization. Again, a terrible message to the players.
Those 7-27 and 10-24 seasons weren't as good as the records indicate. Both seasons started out with mild success followed by crushing failure. That indicates a team that fails to adapt to the adjustments other teams make against them, and also a team that fails to improve as the season goes on. A lot of that is on Katie.
Perhaps Katie will have success in the future coaching. I hope she does. However, it is almost impossible for me to believe that she will have it with these players.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 09/14/19 12:58 pm ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
| Those 7-27 and 10-24 seasons weren't as good as the records indicate. Both seasons started out with mild success followed by crushing failure. That indicates a team that fails to adapt to the adjustments other teams make against them, and also a team that fails to improve as the season goes on. A lot of that is on Katie. |
This is a really important observation. Even if your team is going to do badly in a season, you'd hope for the exact opposite. We start terribly, our coach sees some adjustments that can really help, and we're a bit better (or a lot better) in the second half. But in each of Katie Smith's two seasons as head coach New York has seriously crashed in the second half.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 09/14/19 2:21 pm ::: |
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I was concerned...and still am...that Katie’s post All Star break adjustments demonstrated she would be returning in 2020. Not that I cared if the adjustments didn’t facilitate winning. That wasn’t it. Just that I felt her adjustments weren’t primarily focused on immediate wins, and if so that possibly meant she had more security than a coach in her position would normally have.
All I know is, a lineup adding Ionescu to this team should win more than it should lose, even with average coaching. The one positive thing I can think of is that her adjusted offensive system would fit Ionescu to a T.
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 09/14/19 3:00 pm ::: |
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Adding Ionescu would do nothing to help fix the comfortably league-worst defense, of course.
The big balls move by Tsai/Kolb, if they're opening up the checkbook, would be to throw a crapload at Cheryl Reeve. She's out of contract in Minnesota apparently, which means it wouldn't even have to be a morally-dubious back-channel kind of approach. Just back the Brink's truck up. |
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Randy
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root_thing
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 09/14/19 3:34 pm ::: |
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Yeah, I'm not saying it would work, but at least give it a shot. Then leak that you did it, and it also becomes a statement of intent, even if you don't get her. "Tsai offers Lynx coach most lucrative deal in WNBA history" would be a nice headline. Hell, if Reeve isn't interested then at least make a phone call to San Antonio to see if Becky wants to make a dramatic return. Then leak that too.
Personally, I think they should hand the reins to virtually anyone besides Smith at this point, but there are plenty of places to go before you resort to the usual lists of retreads, assistants and NBA cast-offs. |
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pilight
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| Posted: 09/14/19 3:39 pm ::: |
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| Unlike some coaches, Reeve doesn't seem the type to bail when the talent starts declining.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 09/14/19 3:51 pm ::: |
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| Regarding the defense, my hopes for 2020 rest on the return of a healthy Stokes and a new coach. If Augustus retires and Reeve were to move to NY (I’d love the move) could it also facilitate a trade of Fowles to NY?
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 09/14/19 3:54 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Regarding the defense, my hopes for 2020 rest on the return of a healthy Stokes and a new coach. If Augustus retires and Reeve were to move to NY (I’d love the move) could it also facilitate a trade of Fowles to NY? |
Whether it's realistic or not, it's a lovely thought after a gloomy season. Reeve and Fowles in New York? Would be very sweet.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 09/14/19 4:05 pm ::: |
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| Certainly somewhat far fetched. Fowles would have to demand a trade to NY for it to happen. She’s loyal to Reeve and I see no circumstance that she’d leave Minnesota if Reeve stays. If Reeve leaves though....
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Randy
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Shades
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| Posted: 09/14/19 4:46 pm ::: |
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| If Tsai wanted the whole Lynx team, why didn’t he just buy them instead of the Liberty? I’m sure Taylor would have heard him out if he’s got all this money he’s willing to spend on a WNBA team.
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Randy
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| Posted: 09/14/19 5:43 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| If Tsai wanted the whole Lynx team, why didn’t he just buy them instead of the Liberty? I’m sure Taylor would have heard him out if he’s got all this money he’s willing to spend on a WNBA team. |
He owned a share of the Nets already, so buying the Lynx would seem awkward. Plus, who's to say Taylor would even consider selling.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 09/14/19 8:14 pm ::: |
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You can hope for Reaves and Fowles
But more realistic coach player combo will be (When we miss out on the #1pick) VJ and Plum
And I know people are expecting innovation but a Spoon VJ coaching duo wouldn't surprise me
Good news coaches seem to get better the 2nd time around
I would say j/k but I am not so sure
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