| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
Back to top |
 Posted: 08/29/20 12:58 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
What I'm finding most interesting in recent Liberty games is how Walt Hopkins is and isn't using his non-Sabrina rookies. Minutes today vs. Las Vegas:
Veterans: Zahui B 33, Stokes 33, Nurse 23, Clarendon 21, Kea 18
Rookies: Willougby 29 (even though she was shooting terribly), Jones 19, Shook 13, Odom 10, Holmes 0, Walker 0 (Perhaps injured? Thought I saw her on the sidelines looking like she wasn't in uniform)
By now I suspect Kolb and Hopkins have a much better idea of which rookies they want on the roster for 2021 and which they don't.
Meanwhile, Paris Kea has certainly been making a statement that she should be on a 2020 WNBA roster, whether the Liberty or elsewhere.
_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
|
|
root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/29/20 2:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| It's gotten to the point where I dread Clarendon playing well for a short stretch because you know she'll ruin things by indulging in hero-ball for the rest of the game. Possession after possession, it's going to be a one-on-three drive into the lane culminating in a circus shot. I call it her Cappie Hammon imitation. Unfortunately, she isn't anywhere as good as those two players. A lot of these solo efforts also end in turnovers. For anyone who said they were sick of Brittany Boyd's turnovers and thought Clarendon would be an improvement, well the laugh's on you.
_________________
You can always do something else.
|
|
bluedevilaztecfan5
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 796
Location: San Diego, CA
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/29/20 6:05 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
What I'm finding most interesting in recent Liberty games is how Walt Hopkins is and isn't using his non-Sabrina rookies. Minutes today vs. Las Vegas:
Veterans: Zahui B 33, Stokes 33, Nurse 23, Clarendon 21, Kea 18
Rookies: Willougby 29 (even though she was shooting terribly), Jones 19, Shook 13, Odom 10, Holmes 0, Walker 0 (Perhaps injured? Thought I saw her on the sidelines looking like she wasn't in uniform)
By now I suspect Kolb and Hopkins have a much better idea of which rookies they want on the roster for 2021 and which they don't.
Meanwhile, Paris Kea has certainly been making a statement that she should be on a 2020 WNBA roster, whether the Liberty or elsewhere. |
Kea shot really well and kept it close for us in the first half. I wish we saw more of her in the 2nd half, especially earlier in the 4th.
Holmes apparently has a knee bruise and Walker was ‘resting’.
| root_thing wrote: |
| It's gotten to the point where I dread Clarendon playing well for a short stretch because you know she'll ruin things by indulging in hero-ball for the rest of the game. Possession after possession, it's going to be a one-on-three drive into the lane culminating in a circus shot. I call it her Cappie Hammon imitation. Unfortunately, she isn't anywhere as good as those two players. A lot of these solo efforts also end in turnovers. For anyone who said they were sick of Brittany Boyd's turnovers and thought Clarendon would be an improvement, well the laugh's on you. |
I hoped Clarendon would be a 10mpg backup to Ionescu, so it wouldn’t have been a huge issue like it is now 
|
|
Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/29/20 6:25 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Clarendon never seemed to play well in backup role. Her best seasons were with the Dream under Cooper where she became a started only a few days after being picked up in a trade (to avoid being waived) and now with NY. As a sub in Indy she improved from year to year but they decided to get rid of her in the end. She never played very will under Collen coming off the bench, and didn't seem to do much of anything for Sun again as a sub. You might get "a little too much" with her as a started that's better than get "not near enough" with her coming off the bench.
|
|
Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4593
Location: New York City
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/29/20 7:28 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| So let me ask ....How Daft pics will the Liberty have next year 2021?
_________________
Lets Go Liberty
Brooklyn 2021
Bring Back Maddie!
|
|
root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/29/20 7:59 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Lib Fan wrote: |
| So let me ask ....How Daft pics will the Liberty have next year 2021? |
Their own 1st & 3rd Round, Washington's 2nd & 3rd Round.
_________________
You can always do something else.
|
|
Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4593
Location: New York City
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/29/20 8:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| root_thing wrote: |
| Lib Fan wrote: |
| So let me ask ....How Daft pics will the Liberty have next year 2021? |
Their own 1st & 3rd Round, Washington's 2nd & 3rd Round. |
I was hoping for more, what happened to our second round ?
_________________
Lets Go Liberty
Brooklyn 2021
Bring Back Maddie!
|
|
root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/29/20 9:15 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Lib Fan wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| Lib Fan wrote: |
| So let me ask ....How Daft pics will the Liberty have next year 2021? |
Their own 1st & 3rd Round, Washington's 2nd & 3rd Round. |
I was hoping for more, what happened to our second round ? |
Traded to Dallas with Washington's 1st Round pick for what turned out to be Walker and Odom. NY also had to eat Tayler Hill's contract.
It's a weak draft and we don't even know if there will be a college season to evaluate players. Plus NY has 5 opt-out players who may potentially return. Other than the 1st Rd pick, the others have very little chance of making the team.
_________________
You can always do something else.
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/29/20 9:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
What I'm finding most interesting in recent Liberty games is how Walt Hopkins is and isn't using his non-Sabrina rookies. Minutes today vs. Las Vegas:
Veterans: Zahui B 33, Stokes 33, Nurse 23, Clarendon 21, Kea 18
Rookies: Willougby 29 (even though she was shooting terribly), Jones 19, Shook 13, Odom 10, Holmes 0, Walker 0 (Perhaps injured? Thought I saw her on the sidelines looking like she wasn't in uniform)
By now I suspect Kolb and Hopkins have a much better idea of which rookies they want on the roster for 2021 and which they don't.
Meanwhile, Paris Kea has certainly been making a statement that she should be on a 2020 WNBA roster, whether the Liberty or elsewhere. |
Odom is interesting. She looks so athletic but sometimes it gets really scattered like she's not sure if she's coming or going. I also thought earlier in the season that her shooting was better than it has been lately. For instance just looking at threes: first six games 4-8; last nine games 0-3. Have other teams just gotten a better scout on her?
Some of the same stuff could be said about Willoughby. She has truly been abysmal shooting and her offensive game seems pretty much drive, drive, drive. If you do that, you need to finish to be effective.
Jones is better than I expected. She's a keeper. Has some rough edges, but definitely IMO a keeper.
The team in general, and especially the rookies not named Ionescu, reminds me a bit of the old Tennessee teams that relied a lot on athleticism and not so much on skill. Exceptions of course, like Zahui. In this day and age, I think you need a bit more skill to complement that athleticism in order to win many games.
Yes, agree about Kea, but then I've always liked her even in college so I may be biased. I'm wondering if there might have been a personality issue at Indiana. She's not exactly a wallflower type. Or maybe they just felt they had more than enough point/shooting guards. Anyway I'm glad she's getting a chance to show her game.
_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
|
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24356
Location: London
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/29/20 9:47 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Unfortunate that the one rookie who's actually stood out is, oh look, a 2-guard! So, the same natural position as Durr, Nurse and Johannes, and even where you'd like to see Ionescu at times. Would've been much more useful to have someone who can play the 4 or the 5 be the one who jumped out. |
|
root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/29/20 9:52 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myrtle wrote: |
Yes, agree about Kea, but then I've always liked her even in college so I may be biased. I'm wondering if there might have been a personality issue at Indiana. She's not exactly a wallflower type. Or maybe they just felt they had more than enough point/shooting guards. Anyway I'm glad she's getting a chance to show her game. |
Kea got stuck behind Wheeler, who was an All-Star last year and the Fever's feel-good underdog success story. Indiana also had 2018 #2 overall pick Kelsey Mitchell playing a lot of point, and Tiffany Mitchell is a combo guard. Then this season, there was a regime change. I guess coming in Stanley had already decided she preferred Allemand and Doyle. To anyone who pays attention to FIBA tournaments, Allemand was no surprise. Doyle is more of a mystery. The other thing to note is that Stanley comes from Washington, where their draft board (actually, index cards on a table) ranked Kea as a shooting guard. So, maybe Stanley doesn't view Kea as a point guard.
_________________
You can always do something else.
|
|
J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6800
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/29/20 11:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
There is actually a slightly realistic version of Liberty 2021 where no rookie (beside Ionescu of course) makes the final squad
Ionescu/Clarendon/Kea
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Talbot
Zahui B/Allen
Lottery pick 21/Stokes/Han or free agent
there will likely be one or two International players who do not show because of the Olympics (or who show late). Stokes and or Allen might be UFA, but NY also has the cap to sign fee agents (actually if NY could add one really good FA, and Durr and Ionescu return better than ever NY might not be too bad in 2021). There is probably a spot or two, or maybe three for this years rookies but I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. It is also pretty hard to create the NYL rookie power rankings when thinking about realistic chances of making the 2021 team
Jones-gets decent minutes and is a good defender, but becomes less needed on a Liberty team if Durr and Johannes returns an Kea wins a spot over the next few weeks and next years trying camp.
Odom- still starts with the vets and might actually have the most floor time of all the rookies, she seems to be fading into the background. On next years squad her defense, fit with vets and versatility still might get her in over others even with less than stellar offense.
Willoughby-like Odom has maturity, fit, versatility and defense on her side, but her percentages and awful and unlike Odom she seems to take and miss a lot more shots, while Odom just doesn't take the shots.
Shook- quietly climbing the ladder, offers true post game and size that no other rookie has. She could sneak through on that but if NY keeps both Zahui and Stokes and drafts a rookie post (Collier, Mack) with their lottery pick or picks up a borderline starting level post in free agency Shook suddenly become very expendable.
Walker this has basically been a lost season for Walker, does her highest draft position and potential and plausible reasons for not succeeding help her? If there is only one spot for Walker, Odom or Willoughby could her lack of playing time and injuries work in her favor?
Holmes- I like Holmes but unlike Walker her lack of playing time is not going to be able to be spun into potential so she is currently at the bottom of the ladder, if she goes over seas and kills it and comes back and beasts out in camp who knows (Her size gives her a true post look on the floor compared to Walker/Odom/Willoughby, but ATM Holmes has too much to over come.
How many rookies (not including Ionescu) make the 2021 roster? (my guess is 1-3). Is Kea going to be higher status going into 21 than any of the 6 rookies? (My guess is yes).
Besides Ionescu, Nurse and Durr
How many from the list below will be on the 2021 roster?
Clarendon, Zahui B, Stokes, Johannes, Han, Allen, Talbot, Kea?
(I am going with 6, including one who might show after the Olympics
|
|
ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 667
Location: Chicago
Back to top |
|
J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6800
Back to top |
|
root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/30/20 8:45 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| J-Spoon wrote: |
There is actually a slightly realistic version of Liberty 2021 where no rookie (beside Ionescu of course) makes the final squad
Ionescu/Clarendon/Kea
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Talbot
Zahui B/Allen
Lottery pick 21/Stokes/Han or free agent
there will likely be one or two International players who do not show because of the Olympics (or who show late). Stokes and or Allen might be UFA, but NY also has the cap to sign fee agents (actually if NY could add one really good FA, and Durr and Ionescu return better than ever NY might not be too bad in 2021). There is probably a spot or two, or maybe three for this years rookies but I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. It is also pretty hard to create the NYL rookie power rankings when thinking about realistic chances of making the 2021 team
Jones-gets decent minutes and is a good defender, but becomes less needed on a Liberty team if Durr and Johannes returns an Kea wins a spot over the next few weeks and next years trying camp.
Odom- still starts with the vets and might actually have the most floor time of all the rookies, she seems to be fading into the background. On next years squad her defense, fit with vets and versatility still might get her in over others even with less than stellar offense.
Willoughby-like Odom has maturity, fit, versatility and defense on her side, but her percentages and awful and unlike Odom she seems to take and miss a lot more shots, while Odom just doesn't take the shots.
Shook- quietly climbing the ladder, offers true post game and size that no other rookie has. She could sneak through on that but if NY keeps both Zahui and Stokes and drafts a rookie post (Collier, Mack) with their lottery pick or picks up a borderline starting level post in free agency Shook suddenly become very expendable.
Walker this has basically been a lost season for Walker, does her highest draft position and potential and plausible reasons for not succeeding help her? If there is only one spot for Walker, Odom or Willoughby could her lack of playing time and injuries work in her favor?
Holmes- I like Holmes but unlike Walker her lack of playing time is not going to be able to be spun into potential so she is currently at the bottom of the ladder, if she goes over seas and kills it and comes back and beasts out in camp who knows (Her size gives her a true post look on the floor compared to Walker/Odom/Willoughby, but ATM Holmes has too much to over come.
How many rookies (not including Ionescu) make the 2021 roster? (my guess is 1-3). Is Kea going to be higher status going into 21 than any of the 6 rookies? (My guess is yes).
Besides Ionescu, Nurse and Durr
How many from the list below will be on the 2021 roster?
Clarendon, Zahui B, Stokes, Johannes, Han, Allen, Talbot, Kea?
(I am going with 6, including one who might show after the Olympics |
I agree with your analysis, although I'd be surprised if the "no other rookies" scenario happens. I think management has too much invested in this year's draft class to simply wipe them out. Most likely not every foreign player shows up, and Kolb probably has more loyalty to his draft picks than to Talbot. My guess is that Hopkins liked Stephanie from working with her in Minnesota, but being liked didn't save Reshanda Gray.
Changing the subject, Zahui's 21-rebound performance yesterday vaulted her into second place among league leaders. Yes, you read that right. Amanda has more rebounds than anyone not named Candace Parker. Zahui is also 5th in the league in blocks. So, if you use the official statistics (10-game minimum), Zahui ranks #19 in EFF and #17 in PIE. For anyone who believes that efficiency stats are the best way to evaluate overall performance, that makes Amanda Zahui B. a top 20 WNBA player. All those who already knew that, please raise your hand. 
_________________
You can always do something else.
|
|
Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
Back to top |
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/30/20 11:01 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Richyyy wrote: |
| Unfortunate that the one rookie who's actually stood out is, oh look, a 2-guard! So, the same natural position as Durr, Nurse and Johannes, and even where you'd like to see Ionescu at times. Would've been much more useful to have someone who can play the 4 or the 5 be the one who jumped out. |
Jones is big enough and has the game and defense to play the three so I don't nec. see her competing for the other guard spots. Maybe she's competing against Talbot next year. I like Talbot but think the slightly younger more athletic Jones would get the nod over her.
_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
|
|
bluedevilaztecfan5
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 796
Location: San Diego, CA
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/01/20 9:35 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
https://collectiblexchange.com/collections/new-york-liberty-auction
| Quote: |
The New York Liberty, along with the entire WNBA, has dedicated its 2020 season to raise awareness for Breonna Taylor, a Black woman who was unjustly murdered by Louisville, Kentucky police officers. To honor Breonna Taylor, players wear her name on the back of their jerseys, Breast Health Awareness included.
A winning bid for a player jersey is a donation towards supporting social justice as net proceeds will benefit the Breonna Taylor Foundation.
Proceeds for all other New York Liberty memorabilia will benefit the American Cancer Society. |
Each jersey auction starting at $75, ends on the 11th. Sabrina’s jersey also available.
|
|
Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4593
Location: New York City
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/02/20 3:46 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
So with 6 games to go in the Liberty season ,
I cant see them winning any more games unless they are
playing a team that has already made the playoffs and are resting their
starters...
Who is your biggest plus and biggest negative as far as Rookies go?
I would say a plus is Jaz Jones
disappointments Walker
_________________
Lets Go Liberty
Brooklyn 2021
Bring Back Maddie!
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63779
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/07/20 2:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Projection of 2021 WNBA Championship
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/r2peVV2CCqo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/07/20 10:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Lib Fan wrote: |
So with 6 games to go in the Liberty season ,
I cant see them winning any more games unless they are
playing a team that has already made the playoffs and are resting their
starters...
Who is your biggest plus and biggest negative as far as Rookies go?
I would say a plus is Jaz Jones
disappointments Walker |
Of the six non-Sabrina rookies, my biggest plus is none of them. I don't say that to trash anyone. Some of them may yet become good WNBA players for the Liberty or another team. But there's not one of the six that I can say: wow, I'm glad Kolb and Hopkins got that player! Jaz Jones, who's probably done the best of the six, hasn't convinced me of anything. She has some obvious strengths and some obvious weaknesses.
Walker has surely been the weakest of the six. The crucial question is why. Is she not yet 100% physically? Was she so seriously set back by the time she lost in preparation for the season? Is there a conflict between her and Hopkins? I have no idea, but the answer--whatever it is--will surely affect her 2021 season. Including whether she'll be back on the Liberty roster.
_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
|
|
Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4593
Location: New York City
Back to top |
|
jmvcity
Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 340
Location: Big Apple
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/11/20 12:01 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Stokes needs to go. She's a one-trick pony, but only when that shot goes in. Of the newbies, I'd keep Ionescu, Jaz Jones, and Paris Kea. The other rookies can battle it out for the remaining spots.
|
|
Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4593
Location: New York City
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/12/20 4:49 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Just one more game to go ...thank God !
_________________
Lets Go Liberty
Brooklyn 2021
Bring Back Maddie!
|
|
jmvcity
Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 340
Location: Big Apple
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/13/20 10:14 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Kiah Stokes re-signed. I’m surprised.
New York Liberty General Manager Jonathan Kolb announced today that the team has signed center Kiah Stokes to a contract extension through the 2021 season. A 6’3 center, Stokes was selected as the No.11 pick in the first round of the 2015 WNBA Draft by the New York Liberty. Stokes has averaged 5.2 points, 6.2 rebounds and 1.3 blocks per game in her four WNBA seasons.
“Kiah is an integral part of our team and she has shown tremendous growth in her game both offensively and defensively this season,” said Kolb. “As one of the best shot blockers in the league, her physicality and ability to stretch the defense is something that is integral to the Liberty’s culture and future success.”
|
|
|
|
Thanks for this fascinating information about Amanda Zahui B.