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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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 Posted: 08/04/20 2:36 pm ::: |
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| Well I guess Clarendon can play 40 minutes a night or we can wait for a 3rd round draft pick rookie PG to save us. I would hate to ruin multiple players careers by asking a guard to run some plays and make some passes 10-15 minutes a game when we have no other options and low to no expectations.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 08/04/20 5:18 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| Well I guess Clarendon can play 40 minutes a night or we can wait for a 3rd round draft pick rookie PG to save us. I would hate to ruin multiple players careers by asking a guard to run some plays and make some passes 10-15 minutes a game when we have no other options and low to no expectations. |
Wonderful sarcasm but not a convincing argument.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 08/04/20 9:30 pm ::: |
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Liberty Press Conference 8/4: Hopkins, Stokes, Jones. The audio quality is really bad for Hopkins and through 2/3 of Stokes's segment.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Cq1uJzYQfFQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/05/20 10:52 am ::: |
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| Ionescu has left the wubble to see a specialist in NY
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 08/05/20 11:07 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Ionescu has left the wubble to see a specialist in NY |
So if Ionescu has left Florida to see a specialist in New York, does she first have to quarantine herself (for how long?) before she can see the specialist? Then, if she wants to return to Florida to be with the team, does she need to quarantine herself inside the wubble (for how long?) before she can see anyone? I'm assuming she does have to quarantine herself in both places. Thanks to anyone who can clarify all this.
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stever
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Randy
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| Posted: 08/05/20 11:38 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Ionescu has left the wubble to see a specialist in NY |
So if Ionescu has left Florida to see a specialist in New York, does she first have to quarantine herself (for how long?) before she can see the specialist? Then, if she wants to return to Florida to be with the team, does she need to quarantine herself inside the wubble (for how long?) before she can see anyone? I'm assuming she does have to quarantine herself in both places. Thanks to anyone who can clarify all this. |
You would think that with the WNBA's daily testing and coming from a quarantined place she might get a pass on that if she tests negative after her flight to NY. Also, isn't the NY quarantine really voluntary?
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root_thing
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| Posted: 08/05/20 11:23 pm ::: |
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Post Game Press Conference 8/5: Hopkins, Odom, Zahui B.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l1ScZ8-wa1M" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
It's clear Hopkins is sticking to his plan. He's in it for the long haul and he believes in his players. Every game, he sees positives that we don't. Good luck to him. Honestly, it's really hard to watch. The team is a hot mess and even the veterans look lost. Nurse is shooting 18.6% from the field. I may stop watching games live. If I know the results beforehand, I can be much more detached and analytical.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 08/06/20 9:19 am ::: |
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Because the Liberty have so little talent, it doesn't really matter what Hopkins runs -- which means he can put in his system and not worry about results.
And in the end, a successful system means players must make the plays and make the shots the system is supposed to create, and it doesn't matter how good the system is if the players aren't as good as the people in the other uniforms.
So why change? Even if he could tweak things to suit this roster, what's the difference between 2-20 and 4-18?
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bluedevilaztecfan5
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| Posted: 08/06/20 10:23 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| It's clear Hopkins is sticking to his plan. He's in it for the long haul and he believes in his players. Every game, he sees positives that we don't. Good luck to him. Honestly, it's really hard to watch. The team is a hot mess and even the veterans look lost. Nurse is shooting 18.6% from the field. I may stop watching games live. If I know the results beforehand, I can be much more detached and analytical. |
I commend you, I don’t think I could watch a game where I knew the end result was a blowout- sub 40% FG, 20+ turnovers etc.
I hope that Kia gets into a better rhythm soon, so many of her shots seem forced, and the deep 3s that I’ve seen her take have all fallen short.
It’s tough because there are quarters, sometimes halves, when we get to see some beautiful basketball- screens and cuts for easy layups, and solid open jumpshots/3s. But what happens?
Is it a Katie Smith situation but much worse (teams adjusted to us last season in the 2nd matchup and we got beaten handily; this season teams adjust by the 2nd half)?
Interviews make it sound like it isn’t particular strategy by the other team, but more so heart/desire/effort. Kia and Amanda have talked about the ‘punches’ of games. Rookies say we stray away from our game plan and what is working well.
Against the Lynx, it did seem like in the 2nd half we were dribbling a lot around the 20 second mark and forcing up bad/contested shots. But was that our offense being stagnant or did the Lynx adjust defensively? Both?
For sure it seems that sometimes we do a lot of standing around.
I hate losing, but in this season I understand it’s going to happen a lot...I would love for games to be competitive, but after these first 5 games I want to see a consistent 40 minutes given and if it’s still lopsided (I don’t think it would be) I can be okay with that.
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toad455
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| Posted: 08/06/20 10:47 am ::: |
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| We have 17 games remaining. We need two wins to avoid having the worst record in league history. Maybe we get one against Connecticut and one at the end of the season when a team like Seattle or Chicago opts to rest some of their starters?
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root_thing
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| Posted: 08/06/20 1:20 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Because the Liberty have so little talent, it doesn't really matter what Hopkins runs -- which means he can put in his system and not worry about results.
And in the end, a successful system means players must make the plays and make the shots the system is supposed to create, and it doesn't matter how good the system is if the players aren't as good as the people in the other uniforms.
So why change? Even if he could tweak things to suit this roster, what's the difference between 2-20 and 4-18? |
I still disagree with you about these instant assessments of talent. New York just overhauled their team. How would you know this quickly if the players are going to work out? People are suddenly in love with Bridget Carleton. Until this week, she had never done anything in the WNBA. Carleton didn’t impress with Team Canada, and she was a solid but unspectacular player in Australia. However, Bridget was terrific at Iowa State just over a year ago. So, which is the real Bridget Carleton? Does she have talent or not?
I think people are missing the point with what’s happening with New York. Normally when players are developing a new skill, most of the work is done behind the scenes. What coaches do during games is encourage players to use their best skills while avoiding things they don’t do well. That’s not the case with Hopkins. He is forcing people out of their comfort zone during actual games. Walt is essentially using games as an extension of practice, forcing players to do new things – like Stokes shooting 3s and Jones playing point guard. I’m sure this is not only affecting players’ physical performance but also making them think rather than react. Watching the players, you can see at times they’re hesitant while other times they seem determined to force the action. This appears to affect the veterans almost as much as the rookies.
The question is whether this sink or swim approach will work in the long run. So much of success in sports is about confidence. Will the players be able to shrug off the losses and personal failure in order to push forward? Or will the daily onslaught of frustration and embarrassment demoralize them? I worry about the latter, but I’m no expert. Hopkins is the one with master’s degrees in education from Harvard and Berkeley. Walt seems to think if he maintains a positive atmosphere and keeps the players focused on improvement rather than dwelling on short-term failure, then he and the team will succeed in the long-run. I’m willing to be patient and see how it works out. However, I may not be able to sit through all the games as they struggle through this journey.
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toad455
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| Posted: 08/06/20 1:46 pm ::: |
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| Excluding Ionescu from this since she's likely out for the season, none of the rookies have stood out. Shook only looks decent when Jones is on the floor with her. Holmes is clunky. There are bright spots with Jones, Walker, Odom and Willoughby, but not having capable vets to play along side is also hurting them. This season wasn't going to be pretty, but it's worse than I thought. 2021 will, hopefully, be much improved.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 08/06/20 2:08 pm ::: |
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That's a great point about confidence. Hopkins' installation of the system will make things easier next year, but at the same time, if players lose confidence (and confidence is hard to regain), that will make things harder.
Then again, Hopkins is also evaluating the players to see if they can fit into his system -- which he seems committed to -- and better to find out sooner rather than later.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 08/06/20 2:22 pm ::: |
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I am completely with root_thing about any "instant" assessment of our six non-Ionescu rookies. It isn't even worth going through all the reasons why such "instant" assessment of the six non-Ionescu rookies after FIVE games is absurd.
Perhaps Walker, Willoughby, Odom, Shook, Jones, and Holmes will all prove over time to be busts. Perhaps one of them will become a star and two others will become solid WNBA players. How can anyone know after five games, especially under the extraordinarily difficult situation currently facing Walt Hopkins and the Liberty players?
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 08/06/20 4:38 pm ::: |
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One of the problems is the team was developing a new system but was also being built around Ionescu.
Ionescu both as a great distributor and shooter was supposed to run the system and be a big part of its success.
Without Ionescu the system seems harder to run and it is impossible to see who of our rookies is a good fit with the system because it is impossible to see if they are a good fit with Ionescu.
Things were slowly developing with Ionescu, without her it has come to a grinding halt. We are shooting a huge amount of 3s but hitting very few. If we were hitting 40% of our 3s the team and the system wouldn't look as bad but when players are hitting 1-18, 2-11, 5-20 etc it is hard to know if we are even capable of implementing this type of system.
I am also pretty sure we have more TOs than assists, even when Ionescu was playing TOs were a huge problem. As time goes on our shooting may improve and our Assist to TO ratio may increase this will at least make us not look awful. But the chemistry and fit with our new franchise player has been put on hold.
We may simply have too many rookies. though You can't blame them because the experienced players are struggling as well. Without Ionescu it almost seems random which rookie is playing when and who gets what minutes. With our low expectations it might serve the rookies better to have games where they know they are going to get a lot of minutes and maybe some where they are going to have to sit out. No one seems to be playing well enough among the whole team for a meritocracy to be determined. I think Shook and Jones are doing slightly better than the other rookies because of their personal chemistry and the fact that they have more defined position (ironically) Jones is clearly a guard and Shook is clearly a post and there are more minutes and fewer competitors at the 1/2 and 4/5 than and the 2/3/4 which seem to be the 3 positions this system works with instead of the more traditional 5 positions.
If our shots start falling and we decrease our turnovers we might be able to get more of an idea if the system works and what players work well in that system. The fly in the ointment is we may simply (especially without Ionescu) not have the talent or experience to make the new system work, and that will make it very hard to assess the new talent and know what to do going forward. Which is the opposite of what the coach and GM were trying to do.
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toad455
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| Posted: 08/07/20 7:23 am ::: |
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Our schedule has been adjusted.
Sunday, August 9 is now at 5pm(no TV).
Tuesday, August 11 is now at 10pm(no TV).
Tuesday, August 18 is now at 10pm(YES).
I would assume YES Network will pick up these game and will likely be on a tape delay. The Yankees game on Aug. 9 is at 1pm, so they could televise that game live. The Aug. 11 game would be on a slight delay on YES.
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 08/07/20 8:16 am ::: |
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As I said when all of this was settling into place, my worry would be that any development and assessment is difficult to accomplish when there are so many rookies and everything is such a mess. It's hard to tell who could play a useful role on a good team when everyone is constantly turning the ball over, there's limited structure, and virtually no spacing because none of the opponents are scared of anyone on the roster.
And if you can't judge anyone then this season becomes a waste of time. Everyone comes back next year, along with all the players who stayed home this year, a couple of extra rookies and whoever joins in free agency, and you just end up cutting half the roster in training camp with very limited extra information than you had in the first place. Obviously if one player manages to shoot 60%, or 40% from three, in amongst the mess, then that's a good sign. But if someone shoots about 35% from the field, which would normally be pretty awful, I'm not sure it tells you a damn thing on this team. |
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ClayK
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| Posted: 08/07/20 11:15 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
As I said when all of this was settling into place, my worry would be that any development and assessment is difficult to accomplish when there are so many rookies and everything is such a mess. It's hard to tell who could play a useful role on a good team when everyone is constantly turning the ball over, there's limited structure, and virtually no spacing because none of the opponents are scared of anyone on the roster.
And if you can't judge anyone then this season becomes a waste of time. Everyone comes back next year, along with all the players who stayed home this year, a couple of extra rookies and whoever joins in free agency, and you just end up cutting half the roster in training camp with very limited extra information than you had in the first place. Obviously if one player manages to shoot 60%, or 40% from three, in amongst the mess, then that's a good sign. But if someone shoots about 35% from the field, which would normally be pretty awful, I'm not sure it tells you a damn thing on this team. |
Agreed. So try out your system first and foremost to see, if you can, what works and what doesn't.
Sadly, pretty much a lost season for the Libs with Ionescu hurt. If she'd been healthy, at least they could have seen who fit well with her.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 08/07/20 8:11 pm ::: |
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| WE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No 0-22 season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How great.
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bluedevilaztecfan5
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 08/07/20 8:20 pm ::: |
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NY shot a hair below 40% from 3 it makes all the difference in this system
(We did ride the vets tonight 125 minutes for 4 vets vs 75 for the 6 rookies, Odom got the 5th starter minutes along with the vets and Odom and Willoughby were the only rookies to play the last 15 minutes a nice sign of confidence in those two players with the first win on the line).
Still more Tis than assists, cut down the turnovers keep the 3 ball shooting near 40% we might be able to get a few more wins. Maybe there is some hope?
Oh yeah we are a lot better when Zahui B looks like a legit starter as opposed to someone who might not make the team next year. Go Zahui B!
Last edited by J-Spoon on 08/07/20 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 08/07/20 8:21 pm ::: |
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Excellent win. Huge game from Zahui B, who must play well if the Liberty are somehow going to have a tolerable season. Some big shots from Clarendon. Finally Nurse showing some signs of herself in the second half. And a valuable contribution from Willoughby.
At best, early in the game, we could see the potential in Walt Hopkins' approach if players can hit three pointers. I want to imagine next season with Ionescu, Durr, Zahui B., Walker, Willoughby, Johannes, Clarendon, our first-round pick, and others pumping them in.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 08/07/20 8:27 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
(We did ride the vets tonight 125 minutes for 4 vets vs 75 for the 6 rookies, Odom got the 5th starter minutes along with the vets and Odom and Willoughby were the only rookies to play the last 15 minutes a nice sign of confidence in those two players with the first win on the line).
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Seemed obvious in the 3rd quarter that Hopkins could smell his first career win as a WNBA head coach and decided to completely go for it. Developmental time on the court for Walker, Jones, and Holmes was dropped. Good decision by Walt. Really important for the players to get a win.
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