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root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 09/09/19 7:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There's a topic for discussion! What will fans do if Katie stays? Riots in the streets? Mass exodus? A good long cry and a sigh of resignation? Smile



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 09/09/19 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
There's a topic for discussion! What will fans do if Katie stays? Riots in the streets? Mass exodus? A good long cry and a sigh of resignation? Smile


Dante's circles of hell for Liberty fans:

1.) Limbo - 2 seasons at WCC
2.) Katie not fired
3.) 3rd pick in the draft lottery
4.) Another season at WCC
5.) Joe Tsai sells the Liberty back to HLJ
6.) S.H.I.T. reinstated as team Pres.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/09/19 7:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

7) The Liberty relocate to Boston and immediately win a championship



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 3073
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 09/09/19 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
root_thing wrote:
There's a topic for discussion! What will fans do if Katie stays? Riots in the streets? Mass exodus? A good long cry and a sigh of resignation? Smile


Dante's circles of hell for Liberty fans:

1.) Limbo - 2 seasons at WCC
2.) Katie not fired
3.) 3rd pick in the draft lottery
4.) Another season at WCC
5.) Joe Tsai sells the Liberty back to HLJ
6.) S.H.I.T. reinstated as team Pres.


I feel sick. Smile


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 09/10/19 2:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Boyd and Hartley are both perfectly fine as 4th or 5th guards.

IMO Boyd gets more negative reaction ATM because for a few seasons she was touted as the future franchise PG and she gave signs of turning into that but injuries and never developing a consistent 3 point shot has turned her into a greater disappointment. Also while she is pretty high up in the league in Assists she also has a lot of turn overs so while her assist to turnover ratio isn't bad it is hard to get those moments where she throws the ball into the stands out of your head.

Hartley at least from the fan base had lower expectations the only one who kept thinking she was a starter was Katie Smith. Also Hartley walks the thin line between being a player who can play two positions PG and SG and being that player that has no position (too lose a handle and not a good enough creator to be a PG, too small to guard bigger guards and too inconsistent for the "shooting" part of shooting guard). IMO Hartley has as many good games as she does bad, but the bad ones piss people off too much for them to give her credit for the good ones.

But the truth is next year if we get Ionescu either one could play 10 minutes a night in a rotation with Ionescu and Durr getting 30 minutes a night and Nurse eating up another 10 minutes at the guard spot sliding to the two when have a legit SF on the floor.

I am not saying that I want both of them to stay, I am simply saying the harsh criticism is routed in inflated expectations for Boyd and too large and crucial of a role this season for Hartley.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 5:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I think Boyd and Hartley are both perfectly fine as 4th or 5th guards.

IMO Boyd gets more negative reaction ATM because for a few seasons she was touted as the future franchise PG and she gave signs of turning into that but injuries and never developing a consistent 3 point shot has turned her into a greater disappointment. Also while she is pretty high up in the league in Assists she also has a lot of turn overs so while her assist to turnover ratio isn't bad it is hard to get those moments where she throws the ball into the stands out of your head.

Hartley at least from the fan base had lower expectations the only one who kept thinking she was a starter was Katie Smith. Also Hartley walks the thin line between being a player who can play two positions PG and SG and being that player that has no position (too lose a handle and not a good enough creator to be a PG, too small to guard bigger guards and too inconsistent for the "shooting" part of shooting guard). IMO Hartley has as many good games as she does bad, but the bad ones piss people off too much for them to give her credit for the good ones.

But the truth is next year if we get Ionescu either one could play 10 minutes a night in a rotation with Ionescu and Durr getting 30 minutes a night and Nurse eating up another 10 minutes at the guard spot sliding to the two when have a legit SF on the floor.

I am not saying that I want both of them to stay, I am simply saying the harsh criticism is routed in inflated expectations for Boyd and too large and crucial of a role this season for Hartley.


Thank you. Terrific analysis. I agree with all of this.


Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4154
Location: QUEENS!!!!


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PostPosted: 09/10/19 7:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
There's a topic for discussion! What will fans do if Katie stays? Riots in the streets? Mass exodus? A good long cry and a sigh of resignation? Smile


Well be warned

Mags begging us to give her a 3rd year and he's a shill type beat writer in the mold of ed Coleman and Sweeny murti

He may very well be forming this opinion from above

Please don't puke on him all at once esp since his Twitter account got restricted for odd activity lol lol

You've been warned prepare to slide under the bovine butt

https://winsidr.com/2019/09/09/new-york-liberty-dont-give-up-on-katie-smith-just-yet/amp/?__twitter_impression=true



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"Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 09/10/19 8:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
root_thing wrote:
There's a topic for discussion! What will fans do if Katie stays? Riots in the streets? Mass exodus? A good long cry and a sigh of resignation? Smile


Well be warned

Mags begging us to give her a 3rd year and he's a shill type beat writer in the mold of ed Coleman and Sweeny murti

He may very well be forming this opinion from above

Please don't puke on him all at once esp since his Twitter account got restricted for odd activity lol lol

You've been warned prepare to slide under the bovine butt



https://winsidr.com/2019/09/09/new-york-liberty-dont-give-up-on-katie-smith-just-yet/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


OK, I won't puke on him. I'll just say that this long, endlessly LONG defense of Katie Smith would be worth a Pulitzer Prize if they gave one for Best Effort at Making Excuses for Someone Who's Done a Lousy Job.

Rather than boring everyone with a point-by-point reply to this absurd column, I will simply close with this: 7-27, 10-24, total of 17-51, winning percentage of .250.


Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4154
Location: QUEENS!!!!


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PostPosted: 09/10/19 8:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:
root_thing wrote:
There's a topic for discussion! What will fans do if Katie stays? Riots in the streets? Mass exodus? A good long cry and a sigh of resignation? Smile


Well be warned

Mags begging us to give her a 3rd year and he's a shill type beat writer in the mold of ed Coleman and Sweeny murti

He may very well be forming this opinion from above

Please don't puke on him all at once esp since his Twitter account got restricted for odd activity lol lol

You've been warned prepare to slide under the bovine butt



https://winsidr.com/2019/09/09/new-york-liberty-dont-give-up-on-katie-smith-just-yet/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


OK, I won't puke on him. I'll just say that this long, endlessly LONG defense of Katie Smith would be worth a Pulitzer Prize if they gave one for Best Effort at Making Excuses for Someone Who's Done a Lousy Job.

Rather than boring everyone with a point-by-point reply to this absurd column, I will simply close with this: 7-27, 10-24, total of 17-51, winning percentage of .250.


My thoughts exactly



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"Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 09/10/19 8:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Katie Smith does herself no favors by insisting that she tried to win that last game against Indiana. Never mind the endless excuses for the rest of the season. Let that fourth quarter against Indiana be her defining moment. Scored only 7 pts in a game she says she was trying to win. Had her hottest player sitting on the bench way too much. If she wasn’t trying to lose that game, she’s just a very poor game manager and I’m doubting that will suddenly improve and things will suddenly click for her next season.



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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: 09/10/19 8:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Katie Smith does herself no favors by insisting that she tried to win that last game against Indiana. Never mind the endless excuses for the rest of the season. Let that fourth quarter against Indiana be her defining moment. Scored only 7 pts in a game she says she was trying to win. Had her hottest player sitting on the bench way too much. If she wasn’t trying to lose that game, she’s just a very poor game manager and I’m doubting that will suddenly improve and things will suddenly click for her next season.


There were other examples too...one other thing 7/10 of those wins the optimistic 7-7 start....came with charmin on bench when she left it was day and night...very big factor



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"Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays
Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 09/10/19 9:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And, adding insult to irony, the coach of the team that won the Lottery Bowl game got fired.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 10:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Imagine if someone did a study of head coaches and managers in all professional sports to determine how many coached for two seasons, had a winning percentage of .250, and were brought back for a third season.


Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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Location: QUEENS!!!!


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PostPosted: 09/10/19 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Imagine if someone did a study of head coaches and managers in all professional sports to determine how many coached for two seasons, had a winning percentage of .250, and were brought back for a third season.


Can count em on your hand



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"Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays
Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 11:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Imagine if someone did a study of head coaches and managers in all professional sports to determine how many coached for two seasons, had a winning percentage of .250, and were brought back for a third season.


Can count em on your hand


Yes. In his 50,000 words (it felt like that!) about how Katie Smith should return for another season, her personal publicist (am I getting his job description wrong?) neglected to mention that.


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 25817



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 11:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:

Mags begging us to give her a 3rd year and he's a shill type beat writer in the mold of ed Coleman and Sweeny murti

He may very well be forming this opinion from above

Please don't puke on him all at once esp since his Twitter account got restricted for odd activity lol lol

You've been warned prepare to slide under the bovine butt

https://winsidr.com/2019/09/09/new-york-liberty-dont-give-up-on-katie-smith-just-yet/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


It's great when you don't have to make up excuses for yourself. Just hire someone to do it for you.



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― Maya Angelou
root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 09/10/19 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

Hartley at least from the fan base had lower expectations the only one who kept thinking she was a starter was Katie Smith. Also Hartley walks the thin line between being a player who can play two positions PG and SG and being that player that has no position (too lose a handle and not a good enough creator to be a PG, too small to guard bigger guards and too inconsistent for the "shooting" part of shooting guard). IMO Hartley has as many good games as she does bad, but the bad ones piss people off too much for them to give her credit for the good ones.

Great observation. I think that's why Hartley is so hard to assess. She appears really useful on paper, but Bria can look totally useless on the court. The other problem is that Bria has only OK one-on-one skills, but she uses them too much either by choice or at the urging of her coach. Hartley is decent at beating people off the dribble, but like so many of the Liberty players she is below average at finishing.

The obstacle to Hartley's return is that she's a UFA. I doubt anyone is going to offer her $102k again. Whether it's the Liberty or another team, Bria will have to take a pay-cut -- maybe a big one. Meanwhile, Boyd is signed for a reasonable $80k (unless the new CBA really shakes things up). It's not guaranteed money, and many fans would rather see someone younger get a shot, but most coaches prefer to go with experience.


Moving on to Magliocchetti:
Quote:
Through two seasons, the Liberty have gone 17-51 under Smith’s watch. A .250 average might be tolerable on the Yankees or Mets, but not so much for New York basketball coaches.





_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 3073
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 09/10/19 11:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
It's great when you don't have to make up excuses for yourself. Just hire someone to do it for you.


But what if Katie hasn't hired him as her personal publicist? What if he's written these 50,000 words without a special fee because he actually believes them? Smile


root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
myrtle wrote:
It's great when you don't have to make up excuses for yourself. Just hire someone to do it for you.


But what if Katie hasn't hired him as her personal publicist? What if he's written these 50,000 words without a special fee because he actually believes them? Smile


The internet has created a lot of opportunities for new sports sites and wannabe sports journalists. Magliocchetti seems to sit just beyond the borderline of amateur. He is hustling to forge a career, grabbing every opportunity possible and covering multiple sports. His most valuable asset is access. Right now, he has it with the Liberty and Katie Smith so he is hanging on for dear life. It's to his benefit to have Katie return and for him to be on her good side. I doubt Smith asked for this.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 09/10/19 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Geoff was predominantly the only reporter to cover the Liberty recently. With them owned by Tsai and having the Nets connection, there are more reporters popping up now to cover them. Let's see how he does next season with them at Barclays.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 12:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Reading that article, Mags mostly talks about attitude, effort, and togetherness -- touchy, feely stuff related to the players. He never discusses the basketball aspect of coaching -- Xs and Os, systems, strategy, game management, player deployment, etc. Getting along with the players is certainly important, but so is the actual coaching.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4154
Location: QUEENS!!!!


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PostPosted: 09/10/19 2:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Reading that article, Mags mostly talks about attitude, effort, and togetherness -- touchy, feely stuff related to the players. He never discusses the basketball aspect of coaching -- Xs and Os, systems, strategy, game management, player deployment, etc. Getting along with the players is certainly important, but so is the actual coaching.



That's the problem the players dont need a friend they need a driver and developer...someone to push them especially the young ones to a.higher level

Thats not Katie



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Reading that article, Mags mostly talks about attitude, effort, and togetherness -- touchy, feely stuff related to the players. He never discusses the basketball aspect of coaching -- Xs and Os, systems, strategy, game management, player deployment, etc. Getting along with the players is certainly important, but so is the actual coaching.



That's the problem the players dont need a friend they need a driver and developer...someone to push them especially the young ones to a.higher level

Thats not Katie


The head coach doesn't have to be the bad cop.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 3:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
The internet has created a lot of opportunities for new sports sites and wannabe sports journalists. Magliocchetti seems to sit just beyond the borderline of amateur. He is hustling to forge a career, grabbing every opportunity possible and covering multiple sports. His most valuable asset is access. Right now, he has it with the Liberty and Katie Smith so he is hanging on for dear life. It's to his benefit to have Katie return and for him to be on her good side. I doubt Smith asked for this.


One telling sign of his being "just beyond the borderline of amateur" is how ridiculously long this piece is. It could easily be cut down by 50%, probably more, and still make the (dubious) case for Katie Smith that he's trying to make.

Does W-Insider pay its writers? Is this guy being paid by the word? More words, higher fee? Smile


NYSports56



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PostPosted: 09/11/19 3:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They can't be seriously thinking about bringing Katie back.


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