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No expansion, it appears; relocation?
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ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/25/19 1:37 pm    ::: No expansion, it appears; relocation? Reply Reply with quote

It would seem that if expansion were coming, announcements would have been made, as season ticket sales would have begun, etc.

And given the lack of even a rumor, it looks like there will be 12 teams next year.

The relocation timeline is somewhat different, but still an issue. At some level, it wouldn't make sense to announce a relocation too soon because it would pretty much kill ticket sales the rest of the season. On the other hand, though, perhaps an announcement would get some people out to see the last home game or two, and generate some last bits of revenue.

And of course the new location has the same issues as expansion: Selling tickets, hiring staff, etc., and we've heard nothing there either.

Obviously, I've been saying San Francisco is a very possible relocation site, but the deafening silence all around might indicate that, as Richyyy has said, it's all been a smokescreen.

The last day of the regular season is Sept. 8, and both Indiana and Atlanta, the prime candidates for relocation, are home on that day.

Any thoughts on

a) the likelihood of relocation; and

b) if there is relocation, when it would be announced?



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/25/19 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not this year



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/25/19 2:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you've lasted this long as an owner, why not wait to see what the expected balance sheet is going to look like under the next CBA? Usually all happens in the offseason, anyway.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/25/19 2:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Owners might want to say that a team is in peril for the CBA negotiations. Happened last time with the Sparks then a new owner appeared. Saying another franchise has been sold and will relocate starts to make franchises look valuable.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/25/19 3:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, the Liberty were sold before the season...



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/25/19 3:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The San Antonio Stars relocating to Vegas came out of no where. No hints of any kind MGM was pursuing a team.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/25/19 3:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
The San Antonio Stars relocating to Vegas came out of no where. No hints of any kind MGM was pursuing a team.


There were some rumors floating around here that there was a team moving for few weeks before it happened.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 08/25/19 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What happened to the Hogtown rumor? It was on Twitter and thus ineluctably true, as I recall.
Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 08/25/19 4:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here you go, Clay. It's on the house:







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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 08/25/19 4:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Atlanta ought to try that 3,500-seat arena in College Park, especially if it is significantly cheaper, as metro-accessible as it sounds, and drive-/parking-friendly (or at least not unfriendly).

Indiana hopefully will survive its temporary displacement. Anyone know how many years that’ll last? And I know it’s been a few years since they won their ‘ship, but it’s surprising that the fan base hasn’t been more loyal since the post-Catchings rebuild began, which really wasn’t a whole lot of time ago. Or maybe it wasn’t that big to begin with, idk.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/25/19 5:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Fever will be displaced for two years. I doubt they fold or relocate since the Pacers/Fever did announce this very early in the season. The play in a low rent arena for that time and come 2022 will tell if the fans return to the newly renovated Fieldhouse.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 08/26/19 3:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Found this from back in Summer 2015:

http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=85126

stever wrote:
http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/2015/07/29/kfc-yum-center-offers--host-atlanta-dream--case--phillips-arena-renovations/30827409/

Quote:
"I said, 'Well, you could always play your home games here,'" KFC Yum! Center general manager Dennis Petrullo told Dream officials. "We'd love to have a WNBA team here in the summer, because that's when the slower months are anyway. It would fill a nice void for us."

The Dream, featuring former Louisville stars Angel McCoughtry and Shoni Schimmel, drew an announced crowd of 6,347 to the Yum! Center in May for a preseason exhibition.


Quote:
"This is a great market for women's basketball. The program here is drawing very well compared to other colleges."

U of L ranked third in the nation last season with an average 9,515 fans per game. Only South Carolina (12,293) and Tennessee (10,375) drew more.


This is probably where I subconsciously got my ideas for Louisville, Knoxville, and Columbia Razz Louisville strangely could be an option for both of the teams we've talked about lately given its proximity to both cities.

No, WNBA fan bases probably aren't "built in" anywhere new per se, but a city with an arena that hosts large crowds to watch women play basketball might be the most conducive environment for growing one. And that's not even including the cities that should be given a second chance (Houston, Detroit, Sacramento, Portland, mayyyybe Charlotte) or even a first chance despite no large local-college support (Bay Area, Toronto). God, I wish there were 16 high-functioning franchises Crying or Very sad that number just feels like the right amount of teams.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/26/19 6:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Louisville is getting an NWSL team next year, so having an NWSL team & a WNBA team startup at the same time wouldn't be good, IMO. Both would be competing for fans in the startup seasons.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 10/18/19 9:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

More noise from the Bay. More nothing, pretty much.

https://twitter.com/BradyKlopferNBA/status/1185348297289949184?s=20
https://twitter.com/BradyKlopferNBA/status/1185348298908897280?s=20

Quote:
Warriors president/COO Rick Welts, a vital person behind the WNBA’s creation told me that “We’re big supporters, and think the Bay Area would be a great market for the W. We’ve had a lot on our plate of late, so we can get refocused and start to think about that again.”

Quote:
Welts added that his mind hasn’t changed regarding an arena, even with the new Chase Center. Believes a maxed out, smaller arena is better for WNBA games than a half-full NBA arena.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 10/19/19 7:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So now that Chase is built they want to wait until a smaller arena is built.....

If they really want to see a WNBA game in a smaller arena, people in the Bay area can jump on a plane to Atlanta, and take the Sky Train over to the new Dream arena. Razz



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 10/19/19 9:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
So now that Chase is built they want to wait until a smaller arena is built.....

If they really want to see a WNBA game in a smaller arena, people in the Bay area can jump on a plane to Atlanta, and take the Sky Train over to the new Dream arena. Razz


An interesting pivot ...

That tells me a) the Warriors are paying attention to the WNBA; and b) they're doing a little better booking Chase than they thought, so they're not as concerned about those 17 dates.

It's a shame, really, because there's nowhere to play in the Bay Area that makes much sense. Then again, few areas have 5,000-seat arenas with plenty of parking, modern amenities and access to transit.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 10/19/19 9:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

After further discussion with the guy who posted those tweets (which you can see if you follow the links), it wasn't so much that they definitely wouldn't play at Chase - more that Welts just has a general preference for smaller arenas for WNBA games that they might fill. So Chase could still be an option, especially if there isn't another sensible option.

But I'm still very much in 'believe it when I see it' mode with these guys. It's just been too long saying "we will be interested once...".



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 10/19/19 9:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
After further discussion with the guy who posted those tweets (which you can see if you follow the links), it wasn't so much that they definitely wouldn't play at Chase - more that Welts just has a general preference for smaller arenas for WNBA games that they might fill. So Chase could still be an option, especially if there isn't another sensible option.

But I'm still very much in 'believe it when I see it' mode with these guys. It's just been too long saying "we will be interested once...".


I agree. If Atlanta didn't move, then the next candidate is Indiana, and that's been a successful, well-run franchise (well, aside from hiring Pokey).

And if Engelbert is serious about no expansion -- which I think makes sense -- then really, what team will relocate in the next couple years?



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toad455



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PostPosted: 10/19/19 9:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dallas can be a candidate for relocating. Only made the playoffs once since in Dallas. If Diggins wants out, it could be one of those franchises that no one wants to play for. Their attendance did go up this past season despite being terrible. I think we're okay with Indiana for now since they announced their alternative venue for the next two seasons. Gotta see where they stand come 2022 once they're back at the Fieldhouse.



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PostPosted: 10/19/19 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Dallas can be a candidate for relocating. Only made the playoffs once since in Dallas. If Diggins wants out, it could be one of those franchises that no one wants to play for. Their attendance did go up this past season despite being terrible. I think we're okay with Indiana for now since they announced their alternative venue for the next two seasons. Gotta see where they stand come 2022 once they're back at the Fieldhouse.


Comments like this boggles my mind, trying to comprehend them or make sense of it....I swear!!!


Randy



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PostPosted: 10/19/19 11:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We really never know what kind of shape a WNBA team is in, or how committed the owners are. The Sparks were reporting nearly 10,000 attendance per game the year before the Williams group abandoned the team. The Liberty reported 9989 per game before Dolan sent them to Siberia, I mean WCC. Houston, San Antonio and Detroit reported numbers equal to or greater than the current league average before moving or closing down. Tulsa/Dallas/Atlanta have reported low numbers for years yet the owners outlasted owners who seemed to have better franchises. I think all we know now is that it looks like none of the teams are folding or relocating this year and will likely all be playing in the same cities next year. I suppose the CBA could be a factor which makes some team(s) reconsider, but I think the players would cave in before letting another team shut down.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 10/19/19 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I agree. If Atlanta didn't move, then the next candidate is Indiana, and that's been a successful, well-run franchise (well, aside from hiring Pokey).


How are you doing the calculus on "successful" and "well-run"? Because they won that one championship? That makes them successful? Because, from my point of view, you can hang the entirety of Indiana's "success" on the fact that Bob Bass was a damned fool. Fever have been around for twenty years, and haven't made the playoffs once without Catchings, before or since; haven't even managed to field a competitive team without her. So I feel like it's fair to ask, how well-run are they, really?



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 10/19/19 1:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I agree. If Atlanta didn't move, then the next candidate is Indiana, and that's been a successful, well-run franchise (well, aside from hiring Pokey).


How are you doing the calculus on "successful" and "well-run"? Because they won that one championship? That makes them successful? Because, from my point of view, you can hang the entirety of Indiana's "success" on the fact that Bob Bass was a damned fool. Fever have been around for twenty years, and haven't made the playoffs once without Catchings, before or since; haven't even managed to field a competitive team without her. So I feel like it's fair to ask, how well-run are they, really?


Good points, but their attendance has always appeared to be solid, they seem to have community support and they have had their moments with Catchings.

A strong franchise doesn't necessarily win championships, in any sport. There's a lot of luck involved in any postseason/playoff situation. My SF Giants won three World Series and weren't the best team in any one of the three playoffs.



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PostPosted: 10/20/19 4:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I agree. If Atlanta didn't move, then the next candidate is Indiana, and that's been a successful, well-run franchise (well, aside from hiring Pokey).


How are you doing the calculus on "successful" and "well-run"? Because they won that one championship? That makes them successful? Because, from my point of view, you can hang the entirety of Indiana's "success" on the fact that Bob Bass was a damned fool. Fever have been around for twenty years, and haven't made the playoffs once without Catchings, before or since; haven't even managed to field a competitive team without her. So I feel like it's fair to ask, how well-run are they, really?


Confused

The Fever have played exactly five seasons without Catchings. Two as a new expansion team, and three in Pokey-doomed rebuilding bad lottery ball hell. Hardly speaks to the whole of the franchise.

If the only thing that kept the Fever successful for 15 years was the presence of Tamika Catchings, there should be no debate about who the greatest player of all time is.


toad455



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PostPosted: 10/20/19 7:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It was believed that if the Fever didn't reach the Finals in 2009, that the Pacers were ready to fold the team. The 2009 Finals made the Fever a success despite losing. Getting a championship a few years later really helped. Now they're rebuilding in a different arena. Let's see how successful they are come 2022.



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