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Carol Anne
Joined: 09 Apr 2005 Posts: 1739 Location: Seattle
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ChasingRatDogmaSalade
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 577 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: 08/16/19 11:14 am ::: Re: Mentally abusive culture within UCR's women's hoops |
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Carol Anne wrote: |
Uncovering the mentally abusive culture within UCR’s women’s basketball program
https://www.highlandernews.org/36007/uncovering-the-mentally-abusive-culture-within-ucrs-womens-basketball-program/
UC Riverside suspends coach after investigation [for 20 days]
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27315586/uc-riverside-suspends-coach-investigation
n.b. The Highlander piece is very long and a bit confusing at first. It starts with the news that assistant coach Giuliana Mendiola's (UW) contract was not renewed, then tackles the alleged unethical behavior of Head Coach John Margaritis. Coach? The man is a monster. Courageous article! |
Best article I've ever read in the Highlander. Folks should forward this to any and all media outlets they can to shine as big a spotlight as possible on the situation.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11161
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Posted: 08/19/19 10:36 am ::: |
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Great story ... and a sad one.
One of my former players played at UCR. She was recruited by Carter Shaw, who left. She tore her ACL before her senior year, but she was invested in the team. I never talked to her about the head coach, though ...
But as the story points out, abusive coaches are the responsibility of the administration, and only thrive in department cultures that support that kind of behavior.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15750 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 08/20/19 1:38 pm ::: |
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A most unfortunate, sad story; very reminiscent of Renee Portland, McCallie, et.al. WHY do coaches even begin to imagine those tactics are productive?
I'll be interested to see any updates, if anybody here finds them.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16365 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 08/20/19 3:34 pm ::: |
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Howee wrote: |
A most unfortunate, sad story; very reminiscent of Renee Portland, McCallie, et.al. WHY do coaches even begin to imagine those tactics are productive?
I'll be interested to see any updates, if anybody here finds them. |
I wouldn't put Portland and McCallie in the same bucket. Portland was explicitly homophobic in her recruiting and her treatment of players. This isn't what McCallie does.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11161
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Posted: 08/20/19 3:59 pm ::: |
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I am consistently amazed that ADs and administrations stand for any of this. Of course they know what's going on -- that kind of behavior does not go unremarked.
I guess they're worried about getting sued if they fire someone for cause (otherwise they have to eat contracts, which they don't want to do), but there are internal checks and balances that can be applied.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 08/20/19 4:41 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
Howee wrote: |
A most unfortunate, sad story; very reminiscent of Renee Portland, McCallie, et.al. WHY do coaches even begin to imagine those tactics are productive?
I'll be interested to see any updates, if anybody here finds them. |
I wouldn't put Portland and McCallie in the same bucket. Portland was explicitly homophobic in her recruiting and her treatment of players. This isn't what McCallie does. |
And there was no finding of verbal abuse. The initial complaint from former player Elizabeth Williams (in her letter to the administration) was that there was "a negative atmosphere" around the program.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15750 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 08/20/19 5:26 pm ::: |
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CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
Howee wrote: |
A most unfortunate, sad story; very reminiscent of Renee Portland, McCallie, et.al. WHY do coaches even begin to imagine those tactics are productive?
I'll be interested to see any updates, if anybody here finds them. |
I wouldn't put Portland and McCallie in the same bucket. Portland was explicitly homophobic in her recruiting and her treatment of players. This isn't what McCallie does. |
And there was no finding of verbal abuse. The initial complaint from former player Elizabeth Williams (in her letter to the administration) was that there was "a negative atmosphere" around the program. |
Well, okay....but "a negative atmosphere" is a pretty broad blanket that certainly might include verbal abuse, however subtle. I can't imagine McCallie 'never' abused anyone verbally.
Re: Portland--to me, homophobic discrimination is similar in its singling-out of individuals for demeaning, and as a coaching tactic IS abusive. Regardless, it's all reprehensible, and none of these kids deserve any of it.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012 Posts: 1099 Location: NorCal
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Posted: 08/28/19 12:38 pm ::: |
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Howee wrote: |
CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
Howee wrote: |
A most unfortunate, sad story; very reminiscent of Renee Portland, McCallie, et.al. WHY do coaches even begin to imagine those tactics are productive?
I'll be interested to see any updates, if anybody here finds them. |
I wouldn't put Portland and McCallie in the same bucket. Portland was explicitly homophobic in her recruiting and her treatment of players. This isn't what McCallie does. |
And there was no finding of verbal abuse. The initial complaint from former player Elizabeth Williams (in her letter to the administration) was that there was "a negative atmosphere" around the program. |
Well, okay....but "a negative atmosphere" is a pretty broad blanket that certainly might include verbal abuse, however subtle. I can't imagine McCallie 'never' abused anyone verbally.
Re: Portland--to me, homophobic discrimination is similar in its singling-out of individuals for demeaning, and as a coaching tactic IS abusive. Regardless, it's all reprehensible, and none of these kids deserve any of it. |
It doesn't surprise me due to the circumstances at Duke that there was a negative atmosphere. McCallie was under constant attack from the moment she took over the program. All one had to do is frequenct their forum to feel the negativity. People wonder why the program has declined and it can not all be placed on the Coach. A majority of it was from the crusade by those that had an agenda to git rid of her. You can not promote a negative on not only the Duke site but also on other sites to have an effect. Yet McCallie is still there and all that was accomplished was a diminishing of the program via bad publicity by their very own fans.
If you want a real example of coaching abuse, one has to only look at the coach that preceeded Scott Ruick at Oregon St. Ironically she was an assistant of Gail Goestenkors yet turned out to be her personality opposite. I am referring to Lavonda Wagner. When she was done there were only five players left of the roster. Scott had to enlist a bunch of walk ons to even field a team. That was an abusive coach.
_________________ No one one is ever as good as their best game, nor as bad as their worst.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 08/28/19 1:20 pm ::: |
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Howee wrote: |
CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
And there was no finding of verbal abuse. The initial complaint from former player Elizabeth Williams (in her letter to the administration) was that there was "a negative atmosphere" around the program. |
Well, okay....but "a negative atmosphere" is a pretty broad blanket that certainly might include verbal abuse, however subtle. I can't imagine McCallie 'never' abused anyone verbally. |
I said there was no finding of verbal abuse, not that Joanne P. McCallie never verbally abused anyone.
The investigation stemmed from a complaint regarding a "negative" atmosphere and looked at possible mistreatment of players and coaches. The results of the investigation did not contain a finding of verbal abuse.
willtalk wrote: |
It doesn't surprise me due to the circumstances at Duke that there was a negative atmosphere. McCallie was under constant attack from the moment she took over the program. All one had to do is frequenct their forum to feel the negativity. People wonder why the program has declined and it can not all be placed on the Coach. A majority of it was from the crusade by those that had an agenda to git rid of her. You can not promote a negative on not only the Duke site but also on other sites to have an effect. Yet McCallie is still there and all that was accomplished was a diminishing of the program via bad publicity by their very own fans. |
Actually, the characterization of the program's "negative" atmosphere was alleged by Elizabeth Williams, referring to McCallie's actions as head coach and how she ran the program.
The Durham Herald-Sun's Steve Wiseman reported later Sunday night that four-time All-American center Elizabeth Williams—who was on the team from 2011-2015—said she was one of the players interviewed as part of the investigation. A WNBA player, Williams reportedly wrote a letter to administrators last year [2015] expressing concerns about the program.
Wiseman reported that Williams' letter was one of many and that concerns about the program also were raised during exit interviews with administrators. Williams reportedly said no mistreatment was physical or criminal in nature but described the program's atmosphere with McCallie at the helm as negative.
LINK - The Chronicle (May 8, 2016)
In addition, there have been multiple incidents and statements made by Coach McCallie that have hurt her:
--- Accusing a Duke student reporter of fabricating statements, only to have him release the full audio of the conversation;
--- Making factually inaccurate statements about transfers and the state of her program;
--- Referring to opposing players by their jersey numbers instead of their names, even though she knows them as she recruited quite a few of them -- and being called out for doing so by opposing coaches;
--- Missing the NCAA Tournament twice in the last four years.
And this is not including comments she made to players whose parents shared them with me (and I will not reveal them here, as I promised not to do so).
I am not saying that she was received with open arms by the Duke fan base. Many were upset that Coach G left and were not as welcoming as they could have been, myself included.
But with all due, her actions and her continued behavior -- which started almost immediately -- have had MUCH more to do with the "negative" atmosphere surrounding the program than any message board possibly could.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15750 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 08/28/19 1:37 pm ::: |
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is there a legal definition of verbal abuse?
seems too broad a term to make a determination of a situation w/o knowing specifics.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7860 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 08/28/19 2:39 pm ::: |
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There is also, apparently, a considerable problem at Northern Kentucky that was discussed earlier this year. It resulted in the exodus of at least 5 players. And then there was the situation at Illinois....
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11161
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Posted: 08/28/19 3:22 pm ::: |
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I can't believe anyone thinks it's wrong for a coach to refer to opposing players by uniform number ...
First, it's easier for players to find a number on a jersey than connect a name to a face.
Second, your players may not know the names.
Third, it's quicker. "Guard 11" is faster than "Guard Delle Donne."
Fourth, scouting reports usually refer to players by number, and if you're following up on scouting reports, it only makes sense to continue using the number.
I'm not a McCallie fan, but that's one of the dumbest complaints I've ever heard.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15750 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11161
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3517
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Posted: 08/29/19 9:51 am ::: |
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I think that using jersey numbers during games to indicate defensive assignments, etc is fine. However, calling opposing players "Number 31" during post-game interviews is pretty rude and unprofessional.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15750 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 08/29/19 12:27 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
I'm not a McCallie fan, but that's one of the dumbest complaints I've ever heard. |
It is how she uses it in press conferences -- and I should have made that clear in my previous post.
--- When asked about a player in a post-game press concerence -- and the player's name is mentioned in the question -- she responds by using the player's number. Clearly, she knows which players match up with which numbers.
--- She recruited many of these players. She obviously knows their names.
-- It is one thing to refer to players by their numbers during the game. But doing so in a press conference, when she demonstrates she clearly knows their names, come across as disrespectful. It has even surprised her peers, as Muffet McGraw tweeted a few years ago after Notre Dame throttled Duke in Cameron.
Muffet McGraw
@MuffetMcGraw
Darn, knew we forgot something on our trip this past weekend..note to self: remember to pack "Hello, my name is...stickers for #21,11 &15
https://twitter.com/MuffetMcGraw/status/430367657016053760
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11161
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Posted: 08/29/19 2:30 pm ::: |
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CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
I'm not a McCallie fan, but that's one of the dumbest complaints I've ever heard. |
It is how she uses it in press conferences -- and I should have made that clear in my previous post.
--- When asked about a player in a post-game press concerence -- and the player's name is mentioned in the question -- she responds by using the player's number. Clearly, she knows which players match up with which numbers.
--- She recruited many of these players. She obviously knows their names.
-- It is one thing to refer to players by their numbers during the game. But doing so in a press conference, when she demonstrates she clearly knows their names, come across as disrespectful. It has even surprised her peers, as Muffet McGraw tweeted a few years ago after Notre Dame throttled Duke in Cameron.
Muffet McGraw
@MuffetMcGraw
Darn, knew we forgot something on our trip this past weekend..note to self: remember to pack "Hello, my name is...stickers for #21,11 &15
https://twitter.com/MuffetMcGraw/status/430367657016053760 |
OK, that makes more sense ...
It is a little disrespectful in that situation, especially with the star(s).
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8234 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 08/30/19 12:54 am ::: |
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FrozenLVFan wrote: |
I think that using jersey numbers during games to indicate defensive assignments, etc is fine. However, calling opposing players "Number 31" during post-game interviews is pretty rude and unprofessional. |
Off with her head!
Who?
P.
P? That's disrespectful.
Geno Auriemma frequently calls his players "guys" and sometimes refers to the other team's star player as something like "their main guy" or "their key guy". Is he being disrespectful, rude, unprofessional, sexist, homophobic? You decide. I think he's just adopting a speech affectation, that of the eternal Philly schoolyard guy.
Maybe P just likes to affect the speech of professorial analyst. |
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taropatch
Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 814 Location: Kau Rubbish Dump
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Posted: 08/30/19 3:14 am ::: |
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The classless Muffet McGraw refused to even acknowledge a jersey number. Pissed off that Ogunbowale didn't win 2018 ACC player of the year, she referred to the winner Durr as “the other player”.
She later heard it from Walz who shook McGraw’s hand post-game and said, “My player’s name is Asia Durr.”
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Hoopsmom
Joined: 05 Apr 2017 Posts: 680
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Posted: 08/30/19 1:54 pm ::: |
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OK, I know this is a serious topic that we started with, but you are all very entertaining! Or should I say, the coaches are very entertaining in their comebacks to (perceived or real) slights to their players... Thanks for the laughs!
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 08/30/19 2:01 pm ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
FrozenLVFan wrote: |
I think that using jersey numbers during games to indicate defensive assignments, etc is fine. However, calling opposing players "Number 31" during post-game interviews is pretty rude and unprofessional. |
Off with her head!
Who?
P.
P? That's disrespectful.
Geno Auriemma frequently calls his players "guys" and sometimes refers to the other team's star player as something like "their main guy" or "their key guy". Is he being disrespectful, rude, unprofessional, sexist, homophobic? You decide. I think he's just adopting a speech affectation, that of the eternal Philly schoolyard guy.
Maybe P just likes to affect the speech of professorial analyst. |
Again, as I said above, it is how she uses it in press conferences.
--- When asked about a player in a post-game press conference -- and the player's name is mentioned in the question -- she responds by using the player's number. Clearly, she knows which players match up with which numbers.
Also, as I stated above, the reference to a player's jersey is not even close to her biggest offense:
--- Complaint from a former star player regarding a "negative" atmosphere.
--- Investigation into her possible mistreatment of players and coaches
--- Accusing a Duke student reporter of fabricating statements, only to have him release the full audio of the conversation
--- Making factually inaccurate statements to the media
--- Inheriting a powerhouse program, then not just failing to continue the same level of excellence, but completely falling off the national radar
--- Missing the NCAA Tournament twice in the last four years
Referencing jersey numbers in a press conference, especially when the player's name was used in the question, just comes off as incredibly unprofessional.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8234 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 08/30/19 2:54 pm ::: |
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Maybe someone should ask #31 whether she minds being called #31 in a press conference, rather than us getting all hostile on her behalf.
Oh, I forgot, the game is to bash Coach McCallie for any and all reasons possible, real or imagined.
Bashed by whom?
By karmaload16, mammaboy23 and zingerpuss69.
What kind of names are those? They sound very disrespectful, rude and unprofessional.
Those are internet screen names.
Wouldn't those people rather be called by their real names, or even jersey numbers, instead of those silly labels?
Nah, then they couldn't anonymously bash P and CP3.
Who or what is CP3?
SMH, GFU, LMAO, LOL, LOL, LOL, @#^*&$#@!!! |
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