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| Who should win Rookie of the Year? |
| Napheesa Collier |
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54% |
[ 32 ] |
| Asia Durr |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Arike Ogunbowale |
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38% |
[ 23 ] |
| Jackie Young |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
| someone else |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 59 |
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| Author |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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 Posted: 08/19/19 7:18 am ::: ROY |
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| Monday Poll time!
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Shades
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/19/19 10:23 am ::: |
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| Should probably go to Collier, but with that scoring average there is no way it isn't Arike.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08/19/19 10:54 am ::: |
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| That 37% FG though...
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 08/19/19 10:58 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| That 37% FG though... |
It’s getting better.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/19/19 10:59 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| That 37% FG though... |
Will be no where near voters' minds.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 08/19/19 11:19 am ::: |
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| I would have Ogunbowale third, behind Collier and McCowan but, unfortunately, we've seen that the people who vote on this award don't give regards to anything other than PPG.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/19/19 11:34 am ::: |
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The ROY voters demonstrated their indifference to FG% with the 2017 vote.
Of course they picked a player with fewer PPG and a lower FG% than the runner up that year, the only time in league history that's happened.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 08/19/19 11:50 am ::: |
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Who <i>should</i> win? Collier.
Who <i>will</i> win? Ogunbowale.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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MuneravenMN
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| Posted: 08/19/19 12:07 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| Should probably go to Collier, but with that scoring average there is no way it isn't Arike. |
Collier does more and makes her shots. Rebounds matter, too.
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WNBA 09
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08/19/19 12:29 pm ::: |
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It's at the very least become a more reasonable debate. Ogunbowale has improved month-on-month in virtually every meaningful statistical category. The shooting percentage is still poor, but the volume of threes and free throws mitigates it to some extent. She also seems to be gaining the 'narrative' lead with her improvement and people talking about her, while Collier has mostly faded into the background.
At this point I'm expecting both to get a bunch of votes, and voting for either seems within the bounds of being reasonable. There'll probably be a rogue vote or two for McCowan as well, but she hasn't played the minutes to really get involved. |
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 08/19/19 1:06 pm ::: |
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| Arike has carried a team the entire season. Those gunner quotes are well needed on this team . Collier has more help , although a great season she hasn't seemed to take the award by throat .
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 08/19/19 1:16 pm ::: |
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The biggest difference is on the defensive end. Collier legitimately has a case for one of the All-Defesive teams this year. She is often matched up against the opposition's biggest threat, is a key piece on one of the best defenses in the league, gets a ton of deflections, and is near the top of the league in steals.
Arike is...on the court...when the opponents have the ball.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/19/19 1:53 pm ::: |
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| MuneravenMN wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| Should probably go to Collier, but with that scoring average there is no way it isn't Arike. |
Collier does more and makes her shots. Rebounds matter, too. |
I agree, but the voters won't, especially not when she is that many ppg ahead. For this award, scoring average is basically all that matters.
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PUmatty
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| Posted: 08/19/19 2:01 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
The biggest difference is on the defensive end. Collier legitimately has a case for one of the All-Defesive teams this year. She is often matched up against the opposition's biggest threat, is a key piece on one of the best defenses in the league, gets a ton of deflections, and is near the top of the league in steals.
Arike is...on the court...when the opponents have the ball. |
And Kiah Stokes played better defense than Jewell Loyd too.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 08/19/19 2:05 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
The biggest difference is on the defensive end. Collier legitimately has a case for one of the All-Defesive teams this year. She is often matched up against the opposition's biggest threat, is a key piece on one of the best defenses in the league, gets a ton of deflections, and is near the top of the league in steals.
Arike is...on the court...when the opponents have the ball. |
____________ +1 awkwardly
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myrtle
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 08/19/19 2:20 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
The biggest difference is on the defensive end. Collier legitimately has a case for one of the All-Defesive teams this year. She is often matched up against the opposition's biggest threat, is a key piece on one of the best defenses in the league, gets a ton of deflections, and is near the top of the league in steals.
Arike is...on the court...when the opponents have the ball. |
And Kiah Stokes played better defense than Jewell Loyd too. |
Yes, though Loyd had significantly better all around numbers on offense than Kiah who only started 6 games, and averaged like 5.6 ppg (and took no 3s at all). Loyd also shot 41%.
Collier isn't a defensive specialist who is simply holding her own on offense, my point was that she's a true two way star that's making her case on both sides of the ball. Put it this way, Collier has better number than both Loyd offensively, and Stokes defensively from 2015.
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mavcarter
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| Posted: 08/19/19 2:46 pm ::: |
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Ogunbowale is the second leading scorer in terms of PPG post All-Star and just won POW.
Is this still a discussion?_________________
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| Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08/19/19 2:54 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
The biggest difference is on the defensive end. Collier legitimately has a case for one of the All-Defesive teams this year. She is often matched up against the opposition's biggest threat, is a key piece on one of the best defenses in the league, gets a ton of deflections, and is near the top of the league in steals.
Arike is...on the court...when the opponents have the ball. |
____________ +1 awkwardly |
 true. Collier is by far the best all around and certainly a better team player, but as has been pointed out, what seems to count is points. And Collier has surpassed my expectations of her - especially her first year. I thought she would take a year or two to grow into a new position. And I still think she will improve at that position over time, but she adjusted remarkably fast. |
And done it while having to play plenty of 4 as well due to the injuries and absences in Minnesota. How many of those tweener forwards have we seen fail or struggle for a while before making an impact? Alyssa Thomas, just for an example, had three pretty forgettable seasons before falling into the power forward spot and becoming an all-star-level player. Being able to play both 3 and 4, and defend both spots impressively, as a rookie, on the third-best defense in the league, is a heck of a feat.
I think I'd probably still vote for Collier, even though Ogunbowale's made it much more reasonable to vote for her in recent weeks. And Arike will probably win. |
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/19/19 2:56 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
The biggest difference is on the defensive end. Collier legitimately has a case for one of the All-Defesive teams this year. She is often matched up against the opposition's biggest threat, is a key piece on one of the best defenses in the league, gets a ton of deflections, and is near the top of the league in steals.
Arike is...on the court...when the opponents have the ball. |
____________ +1 awkwardly |
true. Collier is by far the best all around and certainly a better team player, but as has been pointed out, what seems to count is points. And Collier has surpassed my expectations of her - especially her first year. I thought she would take a year or two to grow into a new position. And I still think she will improve at that position over time, but she adjusted remarkably fast. |
And done it while having to play plenty of 4 as well due to the injuries and absences in Minnesota. How many of those tweener forwards have we seen fail or struggle for a while before making an impact? Alyssa Thomas, just for an example, had three pretty forgettable seasons before falling into the power forward spot and becoming an all-star-level player. Being able to play both 3 and 4, and defend both spots impressively, as a rookie, on the third-best defense in the league, is a heck of a feat.
I think I'd probably still vote for Collier, even though Ogunbowale's made it much more reasonable to vote for her in recent weeks. And Arike will probably win. |
That's all I am saying. I would vote for Collier, but as long as the scoring stays the way it is Ogunbowale will win.
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5thmantheme
Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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| Posted: 08/19/19 3:51 pm ::: |
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Ogunbowale is creating the most 3s on her team, and with a decent %. Alger has her shooting all those 2s, for about the same reasons Allen Iverson shot so much. It's a big load, which'll thin out next year. She's a keeper.
< still voted McCowan >
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 08/19/19 4:03 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
That's all I am saying. I would vote for Collier, but as long as the scoring stays the way it is Ogunbowale will win. |
That is definitely a strong possibility with the way the voters seem to look at PPG in a vacuum sometimes for these awards.
My arguments are/were entirely focused around the poll, which was labeled "Who should win ROY".
The who will win debate boxes us in too much into traditional and outdated stats for my tastes so I don't find it as interesting, YMMV, obviously.
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