RebKell's Junkie Boards

[Bob Lamm]

Johannes has to play more. Just that simple. I don't care if she doesn't yet know the plays while Boyd and Hartley do. Johannes has to play more. Katie, are you listening? Should I say this 100 times?

[Bob Lamm]

During her years in New York, Shavonte Zellous was one of my favorite players on the team. But one thing she did drove me crazy: her endless complaints to referees every time she was called for a foul. Hasn't changed. In her long and valuable WNBA career, has Shavonte ever acknowledged that she actually DID foul someone?

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Boyd is 6-17 from the field with 7 assists and 12 TOs in the last 3 games. Bad numbers for anyone but a PG simply CANNOT have those numbers. For a PG that’s a non-negotiable.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[LibFan25]

Boyd+Hartley have been turnover machines. I'm so tired of seeing them, its like being in a relationship knowing its not working out with this person anymore but you keep them in the house. Its the same ol story. Both are medicore players lets just be honest here, its time to move man...when is the trading deadline? I know they won't do anything but it would be nice to see

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Here’s the problem. What do we have of value? Durr, Nurse and Tina aren’t going anywhere. Johannes just got here. The only thing left is the first round pick. Anybody worth acquiring with that pick at this point (i.e. Chelsea Gray caliber) isn’t being moved by their team. Also, it usually takes a training camp to learn a system if you’re a lesser PG or combo player. We got Erica Wheeler when Boyd got hurt in 2015 and she was just atrocious. So, getting a fringe PG probably won’t help either. Wasting a year of what’s left of Tina’s prime this way is pretty aggravating. I think we just have to hope the organization is eventually willing and able to convert MJ23 into a PG. Or luck into Ionescu next year. Which now seems like a possibility. Dangerfield would help too.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Bob Lamm]

[J-Spoon]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

If you can get Plum for Boyd I’d turn a cartwheel. But I think our defensive issues show that we still need Stokes badly. I’d be hesitant to just give her away but obviously you’re not getting Plum without giving up more than Boyd.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[toad455]

Boyd and Stokes for Plum is a bit lopsided. No way Laimbeer falls for that. And Stokes is sitting out this season, so I think a third player would be needed.

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LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[ClayK]

So what's happening with Durr? Long term, this could be the most troubling development for the Libs.

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Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

[bluedevilaztecfan5]

[root_thing]

Durr was originally reported to have a "sprain." I assumed that it was an ankle, but it could also be a knee. Yesterday, the Seattle broadcasters described it as a groin injury. So who knows? I guess the important thing is that it appears to be a physical injury rather than a disciplinary action.

While people are killing Boyd and Hartley, it should be noted that Wright's turnover rate per minute is situated between those of Brittany and Bria. I'm not a fan of the official TO Ratio statistic, but even that shows Wright almost the same as Boyd (18.6 vs 18.8 ). So if all your PGs are struggling, maybe the problem isn't only the personnel. Maybe it's systemic. Here's how the Liberty offense looks to me:

Option 1: Throw it to Tina.
Option 2: Pass the ball around a bit, and then try throwing it to Tina from a different angle.
Option 3: Throw it to the post player not named Tina
Option 4: If you're still stuck with the ball, go one-on-one and hope something opens up.

NY hardly runs any plays for their perimeter players. When Whitcomb is hot, you see Seattle setting multiple screens for her as she moves without the ball. The same with Quigley and Chicago. When Nurse gets hot, she's left to fend for herself. No plays, no screens -- just keep running around and try to fool the defender by changing directions. It would really help if NY diversified their offense. And what do you have even when you do get the ball into Charles? A player who shoots 37% (ie, misses 63%). She committs 2.5 TOs of her own, but I'm willing to bet that half the TOs committed by her teammates are forced passes into the paint. It should also be noted that except for the rematch with LA, NY has gotten blown out each time they faced an opponent for the second time (final score notwithstanding due to late rallies by the bench). The Liberty systems, both offense and defense, are just too predictable and easily countered.

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You can always do something else.

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Also to be factored in, Tina is not the player she once was in terms of speed/athleticism etc. Her rebounding is once again starting to decline. Besides the arguments Root described, having such an emphasis on a low post entry offense is not going to work as it did late in 2017 just for that reason alone.

My beef with Boyd and Hartley isn’t just TOs. The ball sticks to both players, especially Hartley. Tina gets the ball late in the shot clock too often. Boyd’s turnovers also often go the other way for easy baskets. That said, I agree 100% with more stuff being run through Nurse. Durr as well. She’s the best 1-on-1 player the Libs have and she’s seldom used that way. Tina is being beaten into the ground and for what? A dogfight for 8th place? Not worth it.

Regarding Wright, she’s been largely terrible during the losing streak. The systemic part is not helping, but I think it shows none of the 3 is a true PG either. I feel like it’s a combo of both factors. System and PG play. The system isn’t making Boyd ignore open jumpers or to make 6 foot bounce passes. It’s not making Hartley dribble the ball while only looking straight ahead or at the ground. However, it is forcing Tina to beat up her body at the expense of our perimeter scorers. Nurse in part. But Durr also. She goes long stretches without even touching the ball.

I know plus-minus isn’t an end-all be-all, but the fact is this year the Libs have been a way better team with Wright on the floor (+16) over Hartley (-41) and Boyd (-126). Minus 126 (worst in the entire WNBA) is absurd, even if the stat is flawed. The Libs also average 3 more points per 40 minutes with Wright on the floor, which agrees with my thought based on the eye test that their offense runs better with Wright than either Boyd or Hartley. Which doesn’t mean Wright is great at it. But she does make the pass to initiate the offense quicker than the other two. We’re paying the price for Laimbeer’s philosophy of not having a PG IMO. In his framework it can work because you’re going to defend and rebound. When you don’t...

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Bob Lamm]

I agree with the many valuable insights above from root_thing and NYL_WNBA_FAN.

It's clear that neither Boyd nor Hartley nor Wright should be a starting point guard. But it's noteworthy that some of the same failures of the Liberty offense are evident when the team is run by three different point guards. That's on Katie Smith. For me, it's glaring that so few plays are set up for Nurse or Durr.

[LibFan25]

[root_thing]

To be fair about it, raw plus/minus is partly a function of minutes played. To the extent that the team is bad, those who play the most minutes will also look bad. Bench players can actually be on a separate track if they mostly face other bench players. So, while Boyd is last in the league at -126, it should be noted that Charles is next to last at -114. Durr is tied with Bentley for third worst at -83. Nurse is -74 and Zahui -73. As expected, all the Liberty starters have a bad raw plus/minus.

Somewhat more accurate is net plus/minus, which also accounts for what happens when a player is on the bench. Expressed on a 40-minute basis, Boyd is still 5th worst at -17.0 and Charles is 8th worst at -13.9. Zahui is 19th from the bottom at -7.8, Durr (-6.2) and Hartley (-5.7) are 23rd and 24th. Nurse somehow rises above the ugliness around her and sneaks into the plus column at +1.2.

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You can always do something else.

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Separate from Katie Smith, I think it’s important to keep in mind that a Laimbeer system means post players will take punishment. He moved on from declining situations to two better ones as the remnants of those teams remained in his wake. Cheryl Ford was a shell of herself at age 28. Swin Cash was not the same player after 25. Tina is showing signs of wear and she’s only 30. That’s not to blame it all on Laimbeer’s system, but it can’t possibly help.

You’ve run your entire offense through this player for 5 years now. She still draws multiple defenders. The Liberty offensive spacing, particularly without Durr, is terrible. In part because Boyd can’t shoot. I do think we are at the point where we need more diversified offense. But I also think Katie Smith entered into a tough situation from WCC, to ownership, to personnel. Some basketball decisions have been questionable but I don’t think this would have been a great situation for any coach.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Shades]