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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 01/16/20 7:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoopsmom wrote:
The letter she posted, was pretty interesting, especially the part about never having been disciplined at any level in basketball. I wonder if Notre Dame will pick her up, and try to get a waiver for her to play this year..... 😂


That's an interesting letter indeed, especially the reference to the Bello sisters. Being suspended for "body language" is also interesting, though.



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mzonefan



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PostPosted: 01/16/20 10:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Hoopsmom wrote:
The letter she posted, was pretty interesting, especially the part about never having been disciplined at any level in basketball. I wonder if Notre Dame will pick her up, and try to get a waiver for her to play this year..... 😂


That's an interesting letter indeed, especially the reference to the Bello sisters. Being suspended for "body language" is also interesting, though.


At halftime of their game at Nebraska (the game prior to the one she noted), Whalen stopped her and tried to talk to her twice as they walked off of the court, and Pitts shrugged her off and walked away. BTN even replayed the interaction again a couple of minutes into the 3rd quarter. Brenda VanLengen noted Pitt’s “frustration” with Nebraska’s defensive pressure.


tfan



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PostPosted: 01/17/20 12:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They removed Destiny Pitts from the roster page, but she is still on their banner page:





justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/17/20 1:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The caption on that second picture is "Whalen cheers on guard Destiny Pitts after she shoots a three in the second half".

I've seen that picture posted more than once with no context and terrible innuendo.

The issue with Pitts has been building for some time with the coaches trying repeatedly to address it with her until it finally came to a head during the Northwestern game where she blew them off completely and even pushed Whalen a little bit. I didn't see it myself, but there were rumors (before all this came out) that she even let fly a certain hand gesture.

One thing I think most of us who have followed Whalen's career can tell you is that she is not overly reactionary and definitely doesn't have a big ego. So it says a lot that she thought it necessary to suspend her leading scorer. The idea that it was just one minor instance of "bad body language" defies logic.

Whalen's still a young coach and thus is still learning, and perhaps a more experienced version of herself might have found a way to motivate or get through to the player before it got to this point, but when a player's response to discipline is "my shit don't stink; I quit" it speaks volumes about that player's maturity level and ego. And make no mistake, Whalen comes from the Cheryl Reeve school of "team before everything; no egos wanted".



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 01/17/20 7:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cant defend someone when they're wrong. Not sure Former WNBA legends taking the college coach route is a great option. Those players demand excellence and in this day and age these kids are very sensitive. Any little thing can have you out the door. If these were professionals then i could understand , but suspending a kid due to body language is absurd.



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SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 01/17/20 8:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

.,




Last edited by SpaceJunkie on 01/17/20 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 01/17/20 8:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
The caption on that second picture is "Whalen cheers on guard Destiny Pitts after she shoots a three in the second half".

I've seen that picture posted more than once with no context and terrible innuendo.

The issue with Pitts has been building for some time with the coaches trying repeatedly to address it with her until it finally came to a head during the Northwestern game where she blew them off completely and even pushed Whalen a little bit. I didn't see it myself, but there were rumors (before all this came out) that she even let fly a certain hand gesture.

One thing I think most of us who have followed Whalen's career can tell you is that she is not overly reactionary and definitely doesn't have a big ego. So it says a lot that she thought it necessary to suspend her leading scorer. The idea that it was just one minor instance of "bad body language" defies logic.

Whalen's still a young coach and thus is still learning, and perhaps a more experienced version of herself might have found a way to motivate or get through to the player before it got to this point, but when a player's response to discipline is "my shit don't stink; I quit" it speaks volumes about that player's maturity level and ego. And make no mistake, Whalen comes from the Cheryl Reeve school of "team before everything; no egos wanted".


I can see why a player would be mad playing for a seemingly clueless coach who turned an NCAA Tournament team (from a prior coach who wasn't good) into one of the worst teams in the Big Ten, as over the past two season the team has done seemingly everything possible to lose every winnable game. Also, being from the school of Reeve doesn't inspire me. Only in Minnesota do we embrace losing/mediocrity so much we have to alienate and run our star players out of town for no good reason other than they want to win/would help us win.


PRballer



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PostPosted: 01/17/20 10:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yikes. Look, I'm sure the kid has issues and there are certainly two sides here.

The point about an experienced, veteran coach not letting it get to this point is valid. I thought that, too.

But at the end of the day, I can't see how this is a good look for Minnesota or Whalen. Opposing Big Ten coaches can so easily tell recruits "See, shouldn't keep her leading scorer in check or on the roster...."


justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/17/20 11:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Cant defend someone when they're wrong. Not sure Former WNBA legends taking the college coach route is a great option. Those players demand excellence and in this day and age these kids are very sensitive. Any little thing can have you out the door. If these were professionals then i could understand , but suspending a kid due to body language is absurd.

So you don't think flipping the bird to your coaches after getting benched deserves a suspension?

To be reinstated all she had to do was to apologize to her teammates and her coaches...she refused.

Ultimately it's all about building a culture and that will take time. And part of building the culture you want as new coach is going through these tough moments.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 01/17/20 11:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Cant defend someone when they're wrong. Not sure Former WNBA legends taking the college coach route is a great option. Those players demand excellence and in this day and age these kids are very sensitive. Any little thing can have you out the door. If these were professionals then i could understand , but suspending a kid due to body language is absurd.

So you don't think flipping the bird to your coaches after getting benched deserves a suspension?

To be reinstated all she had to do was to apologize to her teammates and her coaches...she refused.

Ultimately it's all about building a culture and that will take time. And part of building the culture you want as new coach is going through these tough moments.


Agreed. I don't follow MN....does anyone know if Pitts has sat out games/not started/whatever for reasons that might imply disciplinary action? I'd think most coaches might let a star sit out a bit if/when the problem first arises....if she has, I have no clue.



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PostPosted: 01/17/20 11:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoopsmom wrote:
The letter she posted, was pretty interesting, especially the part about never having been disciplined at any level in basketball


I think she was trying to say she's not a problem athlete, but it comes across as her previous coaches let her do whatever she wanted



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tfan



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PostPosted: 01/17/20 7:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
The caption on that second picture is "Whalen cheers on guard Destiny Pitts after she shoots a three in the second half".

I've seen that picture posted more than once with no context and terrible innuendo.


I found that picture looking for one of Whalen/Pitts in that game where Whalen was putting her arm around her and Pitts continued walking off. If she isn't yelling at her, my bad, but that picture doesn't seem to match the captiion (caption here).

But regardless, I don't see "terrible innuendo" surrounding the picture. If Whalen yells at her players, no biggee as yelling at players is almost universally condoned by fans. Coaches get to perform in a way that is unacceptable everywhere else, save the military. If Whalen yelled at Pitts and that is why Pitts left, that wouldn't be the first time that happened, and again, yelling at Pitts (up to some ambiguous limit) is within the bounds of acceptable coach conduct. Fans will even criticize players for "not being able to take criticism" or "not willing to get with the program/system" if they feel that they are transferring due to a coach yelling at them.

But I am not saying that Whalen yelling at her is definitely why Pitts transferred. But if a player is a team's leading scorer and has two players on the team willing to co-sit her suspension, and then transfers mid-season, it seems there was some coach/player issues.




Last edited by tfan on 01/18/20 1:47 am; edited 2 times in total
GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/17/20 10:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:

So you don't think flipping the bird to your coaches after getting benched deserves a suspension?


So . . . what you previously called a "rumor" about an incident in a game you admit you didn't see has suddenly become a fact?
justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/18/20 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
justintyme wrote:

So you don't think flipping the bird to your coaches after getting benched deserves a suspension?


So . . . what you previously called a "rumor" about an incident in a game you admit you didn't see has suddenly become a fact?

I was at the game. While I personally witnessed the other interactions, I was saying that I did not personally witness the flipping of the bird. However, since then people that I trust have confirmed to me that it was the case.

But even that aside, what I personally witnessed was definitely suspension worthy.

And again, this isn't to absolve the coaches in this. I think even they would tell you that they have failed if it gets to this point. But it happens with young coaches, especially in their first years with a new team with players that they didn't recruit, and their vision and that of the player may not align and the two are kind of thrust together. In a perfect world there is complete buy-in and they make it work, but obviously that wasn't the case here.

The Gophers football team has seen similar issues as PJ Fleck has brought in his culture of accountability. They lost some very highly prized players that were signed by the previous coaching staff but that found themselves demoted or suspended by the new coach. And there was a ton of grumbling. This year the Gophers finished the season ranked 10th in the nation, their best ranking since 1962, and guess what happened to all the grumbling?

Obviously in basketball with less players losing a prized player has a much more outsized impact on the team than it does in football, but the same dynamics are at play and it still takes time to make the team your own. Next year they have 3 McDonald's all-americans joining the team, have a 5 star recruit transfer that is sitting out this year, and have a freshman in Scalia who is looking really good. So the team that's being built is solid and sometimes you have to pay the short term piper for long term growth.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/18/20 12:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
justintyme wrote:
The caption on that second picture is "Whalen cheers on guard Destiny Pitts after she shoots a three in the second half".

I've seen that picture posted more than once with no context and terrible innuendo.


I found that picture looking for one of Whalen/Pitts in that game where Whalen was putting her arm around her and Pitts continued walking off. If she isn't yelling at her, my bad, but that picture doesn't seem to match the captiion (caption here).

But regardless, I don't see "terrible innuendo" surrounding the picture. If Whalen yells at her players, no biggee as yelling at players is almost universally condoned by fans. Coaches get to perform in a way that is unacceptable everywhere else, save the military. If Whalen yelled at Pitts and that is why Pitts left, that wouldn't be the first time that happened, and again, yelling at Pitts (up to some ambiguous limit) is within the bounds of acceptable coach conduct. Fans will even criticize players for "not being able to take criticism" or "not willing to get with the program/system" if they feel that they are transferring due to a coach yelling at them.

But I am not saying that Whalen yelling at her is definitely why Pitts transferred. But if a player is a team's leading scorer and has two players on the team willing to co-sit her suspension, and then transfers mid-season, it seems there was some coach/player issues.

The problem is that the picture isn't of her yelling. Have you ever seen a freeze frame of a celebration? It's a snapshot. She is celebrating with her, not scolding her or shouting at her. But because the picture freezes time you see what appears to be anger. Thus out of context innuendo causing people to draw unwarranted conclusions.

The two players who sat out are Destiny's closest friends off the court. They are also the only two players that sat. This didn't go any deeper on the team than those two, and there has been some grumbling behind the scenes from other players about Pitts' commitment to the system. Now Pitts is well liked by everyone as a person, even those grumbling, as she is a genuinely nice and caring person, but there was a sense from others that she wasn't fully bought in. And it was showing.



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PostPosted: 01/18/20 12:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PRballer wrote:
Yikes. Look, I'm sure the kid has issues and there are certainly two sides here.

The point about an experienced, veteran coach not letting it get to this point is valid. I thought that, too.

But at the end of the day, I can't see how this is a good look for Minnesota or Whalen. Opposing Big Ten coaches can so easily tell recruits "See, shouldn't keep her leading scorer in check or on the roster...."



All Whalen needs to do is win. All will be forgotten. Row The Boat.



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PostPosted: 01/18/20 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
The Gophers football team has seen similar issues as PJ Fleck has brought in his culture of accountability. They lost some very highly prized players that were signed by the previous coaching staff but that found themselves demoted or suspended by the new coach. And there was a ton of grumbling. This year the Gophers finished the season ranked 10th in the nation, their best ranking since 1962, and guess what happened to all the grumbling?


At least for me, it was easier to have patience with Fleck as he had prior success of turning Western Michigan into the top-ranked Group of 5 team before getting hired. Since the Gopher WBB coach has no coaching history, let alone history of buidling a mid-major power or being a top assistant of a top team (where just about all of the more newly perennial top-ranked teams' head coaches have been coming from), it's harder to know if can expect anything.

Quote:
Obviously in basketball with less players losing a prized player has a much more outsized impact on the team than it does in football, but the same dynamics are at play and it still takes time to make the team your own. Next year they have 3 McDonald's all-americans joining the team, have a 5 star recruit transfer that is sitting out this year, and have a freshman in Scalia who is looking really good. So the team that's being built is solid and sometimes you have to pay the short term piper for long term growth.


McDonald's All-American nominees aren't quite the same as McDonald's All-Americans.




Last edited by SpaceJunkie on 01/18/20 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/18/20 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:

McDonald's All-American nominees aren't quite the same as McDonald's All-Americans.

Very true.

But still one of the best recruiting classes in quite some time.



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PostPosted: 01/18/20 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
SpaceJunkie wrote:

McDonald's All-American nominees aren't quite the same as McDonald's All-Americans.

Very true.

But still one of the best recruiting classes in quite some time.


Over 900 boys and girls were recently nominated for 48 roster spots. The final 24-player rosters for the boys and girls will be announced January 23.
Hoopsmom



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PostPosted: 01/18/20 6:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

New Mexico Lobos lost yet another girl to the transfer portal today, Jayla Everett, a starter and last year’s MW FOY. That’s 3 players in the past 3 weeks, including 2 starters. And 14 girls since this coach took over 3 1/2 years ago.




Last edited by Hoopsmom on 01/18/20 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 01/18/20 6:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just heard on the news that Anaya Peoples is out for ND for the remainder of the season with a torn labrum.

Near the bottom of the article.

https://www.wndu.com/content/sports/Notre-Dame-Womens-Basketball-frustrated-with-this-season-567110401.html



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PostPosted: 01/18/20 8:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

...And Destinee Walker is now questionable for ND's game vs Miami....

https://twitter.com/AnthonyAnders11/status/1218591228649975811

It really is a "Trial of Job" season for the Irish.


Hoopsmom



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PostPosted: 01/18/20 8:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
justintyme wrote:
SpaceJunkie wrote:

McDonald's All-American nominees aren't quite the same as McDonald's All-Americans.

Very true.

But still one of the best recruiting classes in quite some time.


Over 900 boys and girls were recently nominated for 48 roster spots. The final 24-player rosters for the boys and girls will be announced January 23.


This is true - A player could be nominated by their coach, their athletic director, an opposing coach, or a even trusted person in the community....


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PostPosted: 01/19/20 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Natasha Mack went out early with a sprained ankle in Oklahoma States loss to Iowa State. Despite her early exit, The cowgirls only lost by one.



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PostPosted: 01/21/20 8:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kayla Robbins is done for her career at Michigan due to an ACL tear suffered at Nebraska on Sunday.


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