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Odyssey Sims Arrested
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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 12:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Sparks seem quite happy about Riquna Williams playing, even using her in their game ads



https://twitter.com/LA_Sparks/status/1144274199332020230



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 12:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just disgusting ...



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MuneravenMN
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PostPosted: 06/27/19 1:01 pm    ::: Guilty? Reply Reply with quote

Is there some concern that the legal proceedings be allowed to play out before a player is disciplined by the team/league? Because I don’t understand ignoring these things.

Sims wasn’t tipsy, she was DRUNK.

The Lynx still have an article calling for her to be an all-star up. I mean...hello?

I lambasted Taurasi for driving drunk and Sims gets the same. What the Hell. Call an Uber. Call a friend. Risking lives is inexcusable.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 2:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

According to Katie Davidson @ The Athletic

Lynx and Sims making Statements. No questions answered though at this time.

Reeve's statement: "More than anything, what our team wants you all to know is that’s not who we are. It’s not who Odyssey Sims is. We made a mistake, and the effect that it has on our fanbase, our ownership group ... those are things that we’re really mindful of. That's something that we addressed, and now we move on."

Sims will be giving her statement shortly.

Unsure if the Lynx mistake referenced was playing her. Hopefully they will announce disciplinary action taken.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 2:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lynx guard Odyssey Sims arrested for suspicion of DUI
Derek James (High Post Hoops)

Quote:
The Phoenix Mercury suspended Diana Taurasi two games for conduct detrimental to the team in 2009 after a DUI arrest, with league input.

Kara Braxton of the then-Detroit Shock was suspended six games in 2009 for pleading guilty to drunken driving charges. Observers should note that Braxton faced similar charges two years prior which may have contributed to the longer suspension.

In another case involving Alexis Hornbuckle of the then-Tulsa Shock, the WNBA itself suspended her for two games after the guard pled guilty to DUI.


https://highposthoops.com/2019/06/26/lynx-guard-odyssey-sims-arrested-for-suspicion-of-dui/


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 3:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Dammit, Sims. No commonsense.

Now watch her end up with a bigger penalty than Riquna Williams.

Quote:
In Minnesota, drivers face third degree DWI charges when arrested for allegedly committing a DWI with one “aggravating factor” present. Aggravating factors include:

Having a qualified prior impaired driving incident within the 10 years immediately preceding the current offense
Having an alcohol concentration of 0.20 or more as measured at the time, or within 2 hours of the time, of the offense
Having a child under the age of 16 in the motor vehicle at the time of the offense if the child is more than 36 months younger than the offender.


Actually, the aggravating factors are:

(1) a qualified prior impaired driving incident within the ten years immediately preceding the current offense;

(2) having an alcohol concentration of 0.16 or more as measured at the time, or within two hours of the time, of the offense; or

(3) having a child under the age of 16 in the motor vehicle at the time of the offense if the child is more than 36 months younger than the offender.


https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169A.03 (emphasis added)

PUmatty wrote:
If Sims gets anything worse than a 2-game suspension, she and the Lynx will have a serious complaint against the league for favoritism.


In Arizona, similar to Minnesota, there are degrees of DUI.

0.08 - DUI
0.15 -- Extreme DUI
0.20 -- Super Extreme DUI

Taurasi's blood-alcohol level was 0.17 percent, or more than twice the Arizona legal limit of 0.08 percent. While Taurasi pleaded guilty to DUI, charges of extreme DUI and speeding were dropped.

If Sims is able to plead down to a regular DUI, I would expect the suspension to be similar. But distinguishing Taurasi's case from Sims could mean a greater suspension, if any plea deal is for Sims includes pleading guilty to an offense with the presence of an aggravating factor.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 4:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I consider drunk driving, especially for a small body mass person with a high BAC of ~2.0, to be far more dangerous to society that what Riquna Williams is accused of, regardless of what the various legal penalties are.

Williams basically engaged in a brief fist fight and hair pulling incident with another woman. No one was hurt except for a minor bump on the other woman's head. There was no damage to the house. The burglary charge is prosecutorial add-on pastry, and is a charge that poses no harm to life or limb. The aggravated assault charge against Williams, while touching but not brandishing a gun, again contained no actual violence because it is a verbal conduct charge. Without getting into the facts, which we don't know, Williams may have a good defense against the aggravated assault, such as self-defense if the two men were manhandling and battering her as they tossed her around outside the house. In any event, Williams never touched, much less pulled, the trigger.

Sims, in contrast, by driving her car (possibly at high speeds), pulled the trigger on a 3000 pound deadly missile. Cars driven by extremely drunk people commonly cause multiple deaths or crippling injuries and many thousands of dollars of property damage. Fortunately, Sim's aim was off and her deadly weapon didn't hit anyone. Nevertheless, the act in which Sims engaged had the potential to harm lives and property far, far in excess of the acts that Williams is alleged to have engaged in.
FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 5:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I said something similar back in the Riquina Williams thread. And Sims was driving 77 in a 55 mph zone, not staying in her lane, after dark. She's very lucky she didn't kill anyone. Of course, Williams did have a loaded gun, so I'd say they both were in possession of deadly missiles.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 5:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yes, Glenn, drunk driving is worse than domestic violence and threatening someone with a loaded gun.

I don't even want to get into this sort of argument as I don't want to diminish the severity of drunk driving as your characterization of that side of the issue was not wrong. Sims' choice to get behind the wheel of a car was reckless and easily could have killed someone. It's the other side of your rhetoric where you diminish something even more severe that is problematic.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 6:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
It's the other side of your rhetoric where you diminish something even more severe that is problematic.

x2. Especially when starting the argument with "no one was hurt" when someone actually was hurt, and hurt intentionally.
Both incidents could have had far worse consequences than they did.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 6:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't feel comfortable comparing the Sims situation to the Williams situation for a vast number of reasons. It's so many I'm not going to get into it. We do know that Sims was documented and proven to be driving at a rate of speed that can kill people, especially if the driver is intoxicated. Regardless of any other situation, doing that sort of thing should bring a significant consequence.

I do, however, want Odyssey Sims (or any other person in a similar situation) to get the help she needs. People can and do come back from mistakes. I'm not perfect. I wouldn't want to be judged on the basis of my mistakes. I do try to learn from mine so as not to repeat the mistakes though. I'm hoping she will do the same. Thankfully nobody was hurt or worse.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Indulge a gedanken experiment, as physicists and philosophers call it.

I god could completely abolish in America either (a) all fist fights and aggravated verbal assaults or (b) all driving under the influence of alcohol and other drugs, which would be more beneficial to American society?

Different people can have different opinions, but my philosophy (in this case, utilitarianism) strongly favors option (b). (And that opinion has absolutely nothing to do with condoning or minimizing the behavior in option (a).)

My personal history and experience would also favor option (b). I've worked closely with addicts for 30 years, and addiction even aside from driving vehicles is the proximate cause of all sorts of other horrible physical, psychological, family and social crimes, including fist fights, burglary and aggravated assaults. For all we know, Riquna Williams could have been under some sort of chemical influence, absent which she might never have engaged in the behavior alleged.
mavcarter



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sims made a mistake, we’ve all made them. Hopefully she learns from it. Not going to overly condemn her for it especially since no one was hurt.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 8:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Indulge a gedanken experiment, as physicists and philosophers call it.

I god could completely abolish in America either (a) all fist fights and aggravated verbal assaults or (b) all driving under the influence of alcohol and other drugs, which would be more beneficial to American society?

Different people can have different opinions, but my philosophy (in this case, utilitarianism) strongly favors option (b). (And that opinion has absolutely nothing to do with condoning or minimizing the behavior in option (a).)

My personal history and experience would also favor option (b). I've worked closely with addicts for 30 years, and addiction even aside from driving vehicles is the proximate cause of all sorts of other horrible physical, psychological, family and social crimes, including fist fights, burglary and aggravated assaults. For all we know, Riquna Williams could have been under some sort of chemical influence, absent which she might never have engaged in the behavior alleged.

Your example only works on a utilitarian basis because of the prevolance of intoxicated driving, and that by eliminating intoxicated driving you are also eliminating all the potential damage that could occur in escalation (ie: accidents, deaths, etc). So to truly weigh these two you would have to consider a world in which these beatings and assaults with firearms occur at the same frequency as intoxicated driving. And by stopping the beatings and assaults, you would also stop all escalations: so you would be stopping all domestic violence, all fights that ended with maiming or death, and all firearm assaults that led to the threat actually being followed through upon. As soon as you do that, the utilitarian choice no longer is the intoxicated driver.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 10:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The issue isn’t prevalence as much as recidivism combined with the inexplicable refusal to acknowledge that impaired drivers need more than a slap on the wrist. The truck driver who killed 7 motorcyclists in NH last week already had amassed multiple impaired driving incidents by the age of 23, and was still driving.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 06/28/19 1:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
The issue isn’t prevalence as much as recidivism combined with the inexplicable refusal to acknowledge that impaired drivers need more than a slap on the wrist. The truck driver who killed 7 motorcyclists in NH last week already had amassed multiple impaired driving incidents by the age of 23, and was still driving.

Oh without a doubt. There are many layers to the issue of impaired driving that makes it something that should be taken very seriously, and something that we often don't take seriously enough.

My post was nothing more than pointing out the flaws in trying to use a utilitarian approach like Glenn was to try and make his dubious claim that driving drunk is worse than committing physical violence against an intimate partner and threatening someone with a loaded gun. I focus on prevalence because it is one of the major reasons why his thought experiment concludes with his desired answer (along with arbitrarily limiting the "fistfight" consequences while allowing for worse case scenarios in the Impaired Driving one).



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/28/19 9:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Both should be suspended ... eventual punishment should be determined by outcome of court cases.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 06/28/19 12:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have a feeling Sims is getting suspended. Any official word yet?

The timing would be just about perfect since their next two games are DAL and ATL. Might be able to beat them without Sims. Brown, Christmas, and Talbot are there to step up. The outlook for Augustus is another 6 weeks.

Suspend her for two games, and the league will probably think that’s sufficient.



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MuneravenMN
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PostPosted: 06/28/19 12:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
Sims made a mistake, we’ve all made them. Hopefully she learns from it. Not going to overly condemn her for it especially since no one was hurt.


This doesn't feel like just a mistake to me. I've made lots of mistakes in my life, but I've never callously ignored the safety of other people. I'm almost 60.

A driver rear-ended me on the freeway. I had a stroke from a blood clot at the base of my skull. I have metal screws in my neck. I am not able to work because of chronic pain.

Driving drunk or distracted isn't just a mistake. It isn't like other dumb things people do that mostly hurt just them. In a split second you can wreck multiple lives. IMHO it belongs right up there with leaving your baby in the car all day or leaving a gun down where a kid can get it or not securing your vicious dog.

Sorry to sound preachy. It's just a big deal to me.



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mavcarter



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PostPosted: 06/28/19 12:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
Sims made a mistake, we’ve all made them. Hopefully she learns from it. Not going to overly condemn her for it especially since no one was hurt.


This doesn't feel like just a mistake to me. I've made lots of mistakes in my life, but I've never callously ignored the safety of other people. I'm almost 60.

A driver rear-ended me on the freeway. I had a stroke from a blood clot at the base of my skull. I have metal screws in my neck. I am not able to work because of chronic pain.

Driving drunk or distracted isn't just a mistake. It isn't like other dumb things people do that mostly hurt just them. In a split second you can wreck multiple lives. IMHO it belongs right up there with leaving your baby in the car all day or leaving a gun down where a kid can get it or not securing your vicious dog.

Sorry to sound preachy. It's just a big deal to me.


That’s totally fair. I’m very sorry that happened to you and I’m glad you’re ok.

It’s still a mistake to me(a very dumb one), no one got hurt and this is her first legal offense(who knows if she’s done this before).



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/28/19 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
This doesn't feel like just a mistake to me. I've made lots of mistakes in my life, but I've never callously ignored the safety of other people. I'm almost 60.

A driver rear-ended me on the freeway. I had a stroke from a blood clot at the base of my skull. I have metal screws in my neck. I am not able to work because of chronic pain.

Driving drunk or distracted isn't just a mistake. It isn't like other dumb things people do that mostly hurt just them. In a split second you can wreck multiple lives. IMHO it belongs right up there with leaving your baby in the car all day or leaving a gun down where a kid can get it or not securing your vicious dog.

Sorry to sound preachy. It's just a big deal to me.


So sorry to read this. Wishing you all the best in dealing with the chronic pain.

I live in Manhattan and am a supporter of Families for Safe Streets, an activist group trying to get changes in state and local laws. Many members of the group have, like you, been the victims of horrible car crashes. Or have had spouses or children killed while walking on the sidewalk or crossing the street. Our laws are outrageously tolerant of drivers who kill or seriously hurt pedestrians and cyclists.

We live in a pathological car culture. These killings are not "mistakes." When I was in high school ages ago and took a safe driving class, I got into a car for the first time to drive with an instructor. His first words were: "This car is a lethal weapon." He was right. We need to change our thinking and our laws to save lives.


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PostPosted: 06/28/19 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Both should be suspended ... eventual punishment should be determined by outcome of court cases.

But the suspension - and the lack of game checks that comes with that - is a punishment. Or are we suspending them until the court cases are completed? Because with the typical pace of the justice system, that could be a while.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 06/28/19 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
MuneravenMN wrote:
This doesn't feel like just a mistake to me. I've made lots of mistakes in my life, but I've never callously ignored the safety of other people. I'm almost 60.

A driver rear-ended me on the freeway. I had a stroke from a blood clot at the base of my skull. I have metal screws in my neck. I am not able to work because of chronic pain.

Driving drunk or distracted isn't just a mistake. It isn't like other dumb things people do that mostly hurt just them. In a split second you can wreck multiple lives. IMHO it belongs right up there with leaving your baby in the car all day or leaving a gun down where a kid can get it or not securing your vicious dog.

Sorry to sound preachy. It's just a big deal to me.


So sorry to read this. Wishing you all the best in dealing with the chronic pain.

I live in Manhattan and am a supporter of Families for Safe Streets, an activist group trying to get changes in state and local laws. Many members of the group have, like you, been the victims of horrible car crashes. Or have had spouses or children killed while walking on the sidewalk or crossing the street. Our laws are outrageously tolerant of drivers who kill or seriously hurt pedestrians and cyclists.

We live in a pathological car culture. These killings are not "mistakes." When I was in high school ages ago and took a safe driving class, I got into a car for the first time to drive with an instructor. His first words were: "This car is a lethal weapon." He was right. We need to change our thinking and our laws to save lives.


I don't think our car culture is pathological as much as our addiction to drugs and distracting electronic devices and the refusal of our court system to take these things seriously. The drunk driver that killed one of my good friends had had 17 previous arrests for DWI and/or driving with a suspended license but was still allowed to get behind the wheel.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/28/19 1:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
I don't think our car culture is pathological as much as our addiction to drugs and distracting electronic devices and the refusal of our court system to take these things seriously. The drunk driver that killed one of my good friends had had 17 previous arrests for DWI and/or driving with a suspended license but was still allowed to get behind the wheel.


So sorry about the death of your good friend. But the example you've provided vividly demonstrates the pathology of our car culture. 17 previous arrests for DWI and/or driving with a suspended license and yet that drunk driver was allowed to get behind the wheel. The "refusal of our court system to take these things seriously" is because our court system is part of and deeply influenced by our national pathology about cars.


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PostPosted: 06/28/19 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Both should be suspended ... eventual punishment should be determined by outcome of court cases.

But the suspension - and the lack of game checks that comes with that - is a punishment. Or are we suspending them until the court cases are completed? Because with the typical pace of the justice system, that could be a while.

Well, there are two different types of suspensions, imo.

The first type of suspension is the type that needs to happen until a court case is finished when the issue is being challenged. This is the "suspension pending review" that happens in many different fields. And it should happen when the team and league feels that what the player was arrested for is significant enough that it runs counter to their message and brand to have a player accused of such a thing actively on the floor while the case is ongoing. As with all suspension's pending review, they would be paid, just unable to play.

This is not about punishment, this is about protecting your brand and being socially conscious.

The second type of suspension is for after wrongdoing has been determined, either because the player admits it, pleads guilty, is found guilty, or the league investigation determines fault. This is about punishment, and the league needs to determine what the correct length of suspension should be based upon the circumstances of the offense. This suspension would be without pay.



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