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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 11/01/19 10:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
The qualifier is in March, so I'd assume it'll be 4 WNBA players on the team that are available. Any college players will be in the NCAA tournament.

Problem with that is the rule that "As per FIBA regulations, all teams taking part in the FIBA 3x3 Olympic Qualifying Tournament must include two athletes who are ranked among the federation’s top 10 FIBA 3x3 athletes." I scrolled a hell of a long way down the current US rankings and didn't recognise a single pro's name. So I hope there are enough tournaments between now and March for a couple of them to build up their points. Otherwise things could get complicated.

Current US top 10 appears to be:

Christyn Williams
Aleah Goodman
Bella Alarie
Michaela Onyenwere
Charli Collier
Tyra James
Michelle Burns
Carly Lutz
Baylie Mook
Jaidyn Eggleston



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 1:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is all very interesting. We were given the impression that Ionescu was very involved in 3x3. Instead, Sabrina is ranked 5,649th in the world with just 59,830 points. To put that in perspective, Laetitia Guapo of France is #1 with 603,640. Christyn Williams is the top American at #33 with 289,750 points.

In terms of WNBA or former WNBA players, I went through all 550 Americans and found the following pros:

Cierra Burdick #3239
Alexis Peterson 3245
Linae Harper 3535
Alex Montgomery 6882
Napheesa Collier 7214
Jackie Young 7246
Samantha Logic 10074
Brittany Boyd 11753
Andrea Riley 13415
Kelly Faris 19082
Ashley Shields 19330
Maggie Lucas 25253
Jen(nifer?) Hamson 26261



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 7:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That list looks like the roster of a WNBA expansion/lottery team. They would probably struggle win a single game. Of course, they only need 4 players I guess.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
That list looks like the roster of a WNBA expansion/lottery team. They would probably struggle win a single game. Of course, they only need 4 players I guess.


Remember, you're going up against the B-Team players of countries that have serious 5x5 teams or you're facing the best players from non-basketball powers like Mongolia and Romania. Where it gets tricky is with a traditionally good basketball country like Russia that failed to qualify for the Olympics. In theory, they could load their 3x3 team with what is normally 5x5 players, assuming they've registered and are eligible. Right now, I don't see any prominent Russian players like Vadeeva, Musina or Belyakova listed in the database. However, we can't be sure because a lot of people signed up using the Cyrillic alphabet. Smile



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 10:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Randy wrote:
That list looks like the roster of a WNBA expansion/lottery team. They would probably struggle win a single game. Of course, they only need 4 players I guess.


Remember, you're going up against the B-Team players of countries that have serious 5x5 teams or you're facing the best players from non-basketball powers like Mongolia and Romania. Where it gets tricky is with a traditionally good basketball country like Russia that failed to qualify for the Olympics. In theory, they could load their 3x3 team with what is normally 5x5 players, assuming they've registered and are eligible. Right now, I don't see any prominent Russian players like Vadeeva, Musina or Belyakova listed in the database. However, we can't be sure because a lot of people signed up using the Cyrillic alphabet. Smile


Maybe Team USA should find some high ranked players from other countries and offer to naturalize them and pay them to play for our team. Razz



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That USA Basketball article also says:
Quote:
The four-member USA men’s and women’s teams that will play in the 2020 FIBA 3x3 Olympic Qualifying Tournament will be selected from athletes that take part in a USA Basketball training camp ahead of the March qualifying event. Among eligible athletes, the USA training camps will include many of the USA’s top ranked FIBA 3x3 athletes.

But again, that camp is going to take place right in a crucial period of the NCAA season. Unless they think some of these kids are going to walk out on their schools at vital times, USA Basketball better find a way to get some pros up into their top 10. You only need two, so they could send Burdick, Peterson, Taurasi and Nneka Ogwumike as long as the first two are in the top-10, but otherwise I don't know how they're intending to handle this.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Reading the actual rules on FIBA's site, I can't find anything that says the 'two players from the country's top-10' rule applies to the Qualiying Tournament. Its definitely a rule for the actual Olympic Games, but the only thing I've seen that says it applies to the qualifier is that USA Basketball article. So as long as their own article is wrong, they can send anyone they like to qualify in March, then worry about the more awkward rules for the Olympics (when all those college kids would be available anyway).



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, if Team USA does need to worry about the two in the Top 10 rule, then it's going to be difficult. Changing my criteria to anyone who has been a pro here or overseas, below are the top 10 non-college players with their USA rank and points:

Cierra Burdick #60 33,000 pts
Alexis Peterson 61 33,000
Megan Huff 69 30,000
Linae Harper 70 30,000
Shannon Coffee 89 21,600
Candice Agee 107 15,300
Alex Montgomery 115 12,900
Napheesa Collier 119 12,000
Jackie Young 122 12,000
Oderah Chidom 146 9,600

So, how do we move any of these people into the Top 10? Carly Lutz is #9 with 81,400 points and Baylie Mook is #10 with 76,200 points. Collier and Young recently played in a tournament, and as far as I know that was their first. Did they get 12,000 points for that one tournament? (OT quarterfinal loss.) That suggests Burdick, Peterson, Huff or Harper need to play in 4-5 tournaments where Team USA performs well. Are there 4-5 tournaments left?



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Are there 4-5 tournaments left?

Um, maybe? You go here - https://play.fiba3x3.com/events - and it claims there are still 177 events 'upcoming' in 2019. But a lot of those aren't really upcoming, or are recreational things (and I'm sure many won't have a women's section). There are 39 total competitions listed for 2020. The final of the 3x3 World Tour, which I think is only for the guys anyway, is going on in Japan right now. Honestly, this whole thing's kind of a mess.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 2:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Honestly, this whole thing's kind of a mess.


It does seem like USA Basketball is asleep at the wheel for 3x3. When it comes to the Olympics, people mostly care about the medal count and the color of the medals. There's not much concern about how you won the medals. So, if the USA women capture gold in 5x5 and Mongolia wins gold in 3x3, it's equivalent in the eyes of the non-basketball world. Smile



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 2:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The other two players, though, don't have to be in the top ten.

But do they have to have some other level of qualification?



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 2:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
The other two players, though, don't have to be in the top ten.

But do they have to have some other level of qualification?

https://fiba3x3.com/docs/olympics-tokyo-2020-qualification-system.pdf

Quote:
To be eligible to participate in the Olympic Games, all athletes must have a confirmed account at https://play.fiba3x3.com and at least two (2) athletes, out of the four (4) per team, have to be ranked within the top 10 of their national individual ranking (only athletes with a confirmed account are considered) on 22 June 2020 (i.e. two weeks before the Tokyo 2020 Sport Entries deadline on 6 July 2020); whilst the other two (2) athletes of the team need to have a 54.000 (men) and 36.000 (women) minimum number if individual ranking points or be ranked within the top 50 of their national individual ranking (only athletes with a confirmed account are considered) on 22 June 2020.


ETA: Currently the top 47 US women meet that point threshold (all college kids and/or names that mean nothing to me).



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 7:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We may have good news on the 3x3 Team:

1) I drilled down to see what these players did in individual tournaments. It looks like all the points were accumulated this year. It's possible that totals reset to zero on January 1, 2020, so none of the current rankings would matter. However, I noticed that Guapo, the French player at #1, had two early June 2019 tournaments excluded. It's also possible they're operating on a season-based year starting in June rather than a calendar year. In that case, the points would carry over.

2) There are tournaments where you can accumulate over 70,000 points in a single event. So, the 36,000 point minimum is easily attainable if you pick the right tournament. Guapo played in two such tournaments in each of three months: June, August, and September.

3) All team USA has to do is find a couple of these high-value tournaments and send some pros to get them qualified.

4) Afterward, USA Basketball has to prevent the college kids from participating too much so that we keep our pro players in the Top 10. Wink



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 8:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Accumulation of points for the federation rankings started November 2018, for what that's worth. That might be where they're going from for individuals as well. It would seem strange and unlikely to me to reset to zero on January of the Olympic year, but FIBA does some strange shit, so I wouldn't rule it out.

The problem with finding those high-value tournaments could be that this year's FIBA 3x3 Women's Series - https://womensseries.fiba3x3.com/2019 - ran from June to September. If next year's is somethng similar, then obviously that would be no help to anyone in terms of ranking points pre-Olympics.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 9:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if Hayes will get called up by Azerbaijan for their 3x3 NT?



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/02/19 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I looked at about 15 players. The earliest date I could find where points counted was March 2019 for Asian players. Still, even if there is time left it's possible that there are no high-value tournaments remaining. I also noticed that a number of players had their October tournaments excluded. They were low-value events, but still, it's interesting that they were tallied but not included.

So, maybe the USA is back to being screwed. No pro players are eligible for the Olympic Qualifier, and college players will be tied up in their various tournaments.



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PostPosted: 11/03/19 1:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the plan was to use college kids all along

A team of say top 10

C. Williams and Bella Alarie or C. Collier

with

Ionescu

or maybe Hebard, Ono if you don't want both Collier and Alarie seems do-able right amount of size and familiarity

and if the US does well they stay with this system grooming college kids as part of the future for the larger National team and if the US blows it they re-think and develop the next tier down from top 12 national team pros with more of a skill set for 3x3


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PostPosted: 11/03/19 2:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Maybe the plan was to use college kids all along

A team of say top 10

C. Williams and Bella Alarie or C. Collier

with

Ionescu

or maybe Hebard, Ono if you don't want both Collier and Alarie seems do-able right amount of size and familiarity

and if the US does well they stay with this system grooming college kids as part of the future for the larger National team and if the US blows it they re-think and develop the next tier down from top 12 national team pros with more of a skill set for 3x3


Did you follow the whole discussion? The Olympic Qualifier is in March. College players are not skipping the NCAA Tournament to play 3x3. Meanwhile, there are rank and participation point requirements that pretty much eliminate all WNBA players. We're not clear about which rules apply. If the stricter rules apply, and WNBA players can't be used, then it comes down to former players -- specifically Cierra Burdick, Alexis Peterson, Megan Huff, and Linae Harper. They are closest to meeting the eligibility requirements, although even they are a bit short at the moment.



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PostPosted: 11/03/19 10:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is very interesting ...

The U.S. plan all along has been to use college players, and not those trying out for the national team.

All of the college players are eligible, but given the timing of the qualifying tournament, some cannot participate in that event.

I'm guessing the plan is to cobble together some kind of team for qualification from players who aren't in the NCAA tournament at that point, or get some pros eligible.

If I had any press credentials, I'd call up and dig up the details, but I don't. And as far as I know, no outlet is interested enough in this issue to go after the story, so we'll be in the dark for some time most likely.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 11/03/19 11:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm intrigued as to whether the US would qualify anyway. Let's say the USA Basketball article is wrong (which actually is my best guess, considering nothing else seems to say the same thing) and you can send anyone you like to the qualifier. There are still only three spots on offer at the Qualifying Tournament, and everyone else will presumably be sending their best teams, many of whom have actually been playing 3x3 for a while. If Team USA chuck together a team of whatever good-but-not-star WNBA players are around who aren't playing overseas, would they have enough basic basketball talent to get through? I might actually be intrigued enough to watch some 3x3 to find out.



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PostPosted: 11/03/19 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
Maybe the plan was to use college kids all along

A team of say top 10

C. Williams and Bella Alarie or C. Collier

with

Ionescu

or maybe Hebard, Ono if you don't want both Collier and Alarie seems do-able right amount of size and familiarity

and if the US does well they stay with this system grooming college kids as part of the future for the larger National team and if the US blows it they re-think and develop the next tier down from top 12 national team pros with more of a skill set for 3x3


Did you follow the whole discussion? The Olympic Qualifier is in March. College players are not skipping the NCAA Tournament to play 3x3. Meanwhile, there are rank and participation point requirements that pretty much eliminate all WNBA players. We're not clear about which rules apply. If the stricter rules apply, and WNBA players can't be used, then it comes down to former players -- specifically Cierra Burdick, Alexis Peterson, Megan Huff, and Linae Harper. They are closest to meeting the eligibility requirements, although even they are a bit short at the moment.


I understood that but it seems absurd to me that they wouldn't have some kind of plan in place for the qualifying tournament.

My comment was mainly in reference to there being no pros in the top ten and how that would relate to the Olympic team.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/03/19 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
I'm intrigued as to whether the US would qualify anyway. Let's say the USA Basketball article is wrong (which actually is my best guess, considering nothing else seems to say the same thing) and you can send anyone you like to the qualifier. There are still only three spots on offer at the Qualifying Tournament, and everyone else will presumably be sending their best teams, many of whom have actually been playing 3x3 for a while. If Team USA chuck together a team of whatever good-but-not-star WNBA players are around who aren't playing overseas, would they have enough basic basketball talent to get through? I might actually be intrigued enough to watch some 3x3 to find out.


Yeah, it's hard to figure out. As the database indicates, there are literally thousands of players participating from all over the globe. They range in skill level from high school to professional. In that last tournament where the USA sent Collier, Young, Hebard, and Bueckers, they trounced #1 ranked Russia 22-3. Then, they followed up by losing to Brazil in OT. And if Mongolia and Romania are ranked #3 and #4, you know this is a whole other basketball world.



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PostPosted: 11/03/19 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If there are no requirements for the qualifying team it would be funny if they sent a squad from the designated 8

I am pretty sure a team of C. Gray, Taurasi, EDD and Nneka could get through with minimal practice


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 11/03/19 3:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I am pretty sure a team of C. Gray, Taurasi, EDD and Nneka could get through with minimal practice

I would agree. But I'm both not sure if USA Basketball want to send that kind of team to a 3x3 competition, and not sure if those kind of players would have any interest in playing in it.

root_thing wrote:
Yeah, it's hard to figure out. As the database indicates, there are literally thousands of players participating from all over the globe. They range in skill level from high school to professional. In that last tournament where the USA sent Collier, Young, Hebard, and Bueckers, they trounced #1 ranked Russia 22-3. Then, they followed up by losing to Brazil in OT. And if Mongolia and Romania are ranked #3 and #4, you know this is a whole other basketball world.

You've probably spent more time looking at the points than I have after your investigations yesterday, but I have to imagine that countries like that mostly manufactured their ranking via depth. They're so focussed on participaton and inclusion with 3x3 that the federation rankings were done using the ranking points of the top 100 players from each country. So I presume the likes of Romania and Mongolia made sure that they had lots and lots of players who had a vaguely meaningful ranking score (I'm imagining a host of tournaments in Mongolia where different Mongolian teams finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc.). That adds up quickly, and could easily negate your #1 team not actually being very good.

Apologies to Mongolia and Romania if they're just randomly good at 3x3 for some reason Smile.



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PostPosted: 11/03/19 4:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

from swishappeal:

https://www.swishappeal.com/2019/11/2/20944793/fiba-3x3-olympic-qualifying-tournament-united-states-tokyo-2020


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