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She the North? Making case for a Toronto WNBA team
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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 6:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Social media accounts are already active:

https://www.facebook.com/wnbatoronto/

https://twitter.com/wnbatoronto



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 6:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CNE Coliseum (or whatever sponsor name it has currently) seats about 8000. It's home to the Toronto Marlies in the winter and hosted gymnastics during the 2015 Pan Am games.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 7:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why . . . and to whom . . . and in comparison to what . . . would Toronto be an "exciting opportunity"?

I suppose if there are many thousands of WNBA-excitable fans lurking in Toronto, they could be excited. But even if I were in favor of expansion, I personally wouldn't be any more excited by a team in Toronto than in any one of several U.S. cities. In fact, I'd be less excited. I'd prefer U.S. not Canadian local businesses to profit from spinoff fan business. I'd also prefer a team to be in a country that I can freely enter.

Would a WNBA team in Mexico City, Tijuana, Juarez or Monterrey be an exciting opportunity? If not, why not?
tfan



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 11:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Why . . . and to whom . . . and in comparison to what . . . would Toronto be an "exciting opportunity"?


Was that quote in the article? The quoted text I see says it is a "business opportunity" as well as "an opportunity to inspire a new generation of women and girls in sport". They may think they can leverage the Raptors popularity into a successful WNBA franchise, but it is good that they are talking about it as a societal benefit. A profitable WNBA team is far from a sure thing.


awhom111



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 11:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Why . . . and to whom . . . and in comparison to what . . . would Toronto be an "exciting opportunity"?

I suppose if there are many thousands of WNBA-excitable fans lurking in Toronto, they could be excited. But even if I were in favor of expansion, I personally wouldn't be any more excited by a team in Toronto than in any one of several U.S. cities. In fact, I'd be less excited. I'd prefer U.S. not Canadian local businesses to profit from spinoff fan business. I'd also prefer a team to be in a country that I can freely enter.

Would a WNBA team in Mexico City, Tijuana, Juarez or Monterrey be an exciting opportunity? If not, why not?


There is money in Toronto so there is a more clear path to profitability there, although the shear volume of people in Mexico City seems like money could be made there. Oddly enough, Mexican men's basketball succeeded in many places, but never really had in the capital although they are trying again. The Mexican women's basketball league also doesn't have a capital-based team.

Count me as opposed to Canadian expansion as well. If Hungary can have a viable and exciting league at a much smaller population and economy, there is no reason that Canada can't have a league of its own at some point. Past experience shows that having a cross-border league provides obstacles to a separate league in the future so I would prefer that they are told to form their own league now. It's the same reason that I am opposed to NWSL expansion in Canada.
J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 11:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

An "exciting opportunity" is basically anywhere where there is an owner willing to set up a team. Toronto is trying to capitalize on the success of the Raptors Championship, and the excitement surrounding it. If there were legit owners in Mexico City, with a viable plan, then Viva Mexico. The health of the current 12 teams is always a loaded statement as it sounds like "taking over and relocating an existing franchise" is a more realistic possibility than "expansion".

I am a supporter of expansion if there are owners willing to put in the work. I am thrilled the Liberty have a new lease on life with Tsai and hopefully a future in Brooklyn, and hope in the next few years we can add The Bay area and Toronto. It is also nice to know that there are at least two possible places a team could relocate to if it came down to that. Ideally I would like to see the league grow in the next few years to include Toronto and the Bay area

Toronto True, Toronto North, Toronto True North, Toronto Trees, Toronto Triceratops, Toronto T-Rex, Toronto Pride, Toronto Trails, Toronto Chill, Toronto Nice, Toronto Clean, Toronto Green, Toronto Scrapers, Toronto Diversity, Toronto Current, Toronto Lake Affect Snow, Toronto Trappers, Toronto Time, Toronto Inclusion, Toronto Modern, Toronto Flow, Toronto Go, Toronto Life,


stever



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Another interested party:
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/toronto-personal-injury-lawyer-jasmine-daya-making-pitch-to-bring-women-s-basketball-franchise-to-toronto-815511277.html

Quote:
TORONTO, June 25, 2019 /CNW/ - Toronto personal injury lawyer, entrepreneur, and basketball fan Jasmine Daya intends to make a pitch to the Women's National Basketball Association (WNBA) to bring the franchise to Toronto. Raptor rapture is at an all-time high on the heels of the Toronto NBA franchise team winning the 2019 NBA championship on June 13; it was a historic win, 24 years in the making.

"I had intended on making a pitch to the WNBA to bring the franchise to Toronto and had already started talking to investors. I had planned on making the announcement in the upcoming weeks," says Ms. Daya.

"In light of the news release by Max Abrahams and Daniel Escott, I thought I better make my intention known now. If they want to collaborate, I'm open to having a conversation," she says.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd be happy to add a couple of teams, but it really doesn't feel like the WNBA itself is interested at the moment. For the last year or two their response to the question isn't the non-answer "who knows what might come" or "we're open to any possibilities" or "we'll have a conversation with whoever wants to talk to us". Instead it's pretty consistently been "we're focussing on the 12 teams we've got". That's a pretty significant difference.

I'm sure they'd be happy to have a city or two in their pocket in case existing owners pull out at short notice (as we've seen multiple times), but it really doesn't seem like they want to go above 12 at any time in the near future.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 12:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Healthy franchises" ...

If that's the goal, then it certainly would seem that shoring up Atlanta is step one. It's just hard to see from the outside how the Dream is a viable business drawing so few people.

Indiana would seem to be a little at risk without a home for at least the next two summers, especially as the team lacks star power.

It pretty much seems a done deal that the Warriors will get a team in 2020, but whether it's an expansion team or a move is unclear. The advantages for expansion are adding another market to improve TV ratings and sponsorship opportunities, but there is the question of whether Joe Lacob would want to take on an expansion team, which would most likely be pretty weak. (Remember, Betnijah Laney is starting in the league right now and would be protected in an expansion draft ...)

Now if Toronto has real owners and real interest, then maybe expansion makes more sense (going to 14 teams is easier than 13, I think, but I haven't done the math for game numbers, etc.). But adding two teams would mean existing teams would lose more players and the talent would be spread even more thinly. To some, and they may be right, that's not that big an issue; to others, the quality of play is higher on the priority list.

Cathy Engelbert, come on down -- it's time to get to work.



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hyperetic



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Maybe Drake could buy a team. That would draw some attention to the league. JayZ would have to compete with another team in New York.


The potential ownership group is listed in the article so you're wanting two W teams in Toronto? Twisted Evil Laughing

Oops! Sticking my nose in and not knowing what I was talking about. This is the article I thought we were discussing.
https://highposthoops.com/2019/06/24/wnba-toronto-2020-planning-stages/
toad455



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 12:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hopefully this ownership group has it's stuff together and really impressed the league. I'd love expansion, but if the Dream owners are ready to bail, we'll have the Toronto Dream soon.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 12:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
It pretty much seems a done deal that the Warriors will get a team in 2020

All due respect, you've been saying this for years and I'm yet to see any real evidence. It also seems unlikely to happen when they'll probably be pissing about all offseason failing to get a new CBA written. So there'll be a new excuse for Lacob et al not having a team.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 1:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
It pretty much seems a done deal that the Warriors will get a team in 2020

All due respect, you've been saying this for years and I'm yet to see any real evidence. It also seems unlikely to happen when they'll probably be pissing about all offseason failing to get a new CBA written. So there'll be a new excuse for Lacob et al not having a team.


Up to this point, they didn't have an arena to play in. Starting in October, they will. Lacob has consistently said he wanted a WNBA team when his new arena opened. Next summer will be the first window for a WNBA team.

Now it could be he was intentionally misleading everyone, and it certainly could be that things could happen that would change his plans, but I see no reason to doubt that he will do what he has said he will do all along.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 2:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Up to this point, they didn't have an arena to play in.

What exactly was wrong with Oracle Arena as a WNBA venue?



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 2:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Up to this point, they didn't have an arena to play in.

What exactly was wrong with Oracle Arena as a WNBA venue?


There were a couple of issues:

1) Lacob didn't want to take on running a WNBA team while going through the process of the Chase Center. He was quoted as saying that several times, and it certainly makes sense in the light of the complexity of building anything in San Francisco (permits for a small business take a year or more), especially a traffic-heavy arena in an area with shaky public transit and an aroused local population.

2) With only Oracle and SAP in San Jose as major indoor arenas in the Bay Area, there wasn't as much need for 17 arena dates. Adding the third arena means that it will be that much harder to fill the calendar for all of them, so one of Lacob's big tasks once the Chase Center opens is to generate income from non-Warrior dates.

Again, he could have been playing the public by promising a gender-friendly tenant for the SF venue, but he did own the San Jose Lasers of the ABL, and his interest in the women's game seems genuine. Still, it could all be a smokescreen ...

Remember, the WNBA would have been in Oakland all along if not for Chris Cohan, the previous Warriors' owner, who was a dipshit of impressive proportions and sued everybody who worked with him, including his best friend since he was 10.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not accusing them of lying or manipulating particularly, I'm just not as convinced of the conviction and determination to add a WNBA team as you are. It's just been a very long time when they could've done it if they wanted with minimal difficulty and outlay, and they haven't. I'm not convinced that finally opening the doors on the new place changes things that much. And if the WNBA were in on this plan to add another team quite so imminently, why are they basically saying "nope" whenever anyone asks about expansion?



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Lacob gets a team, I'd love it if he called the team the Lasers. Golden State Lasers? San Francisco Lasers? Bay Area Lasers?



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
If Lacob gets a team, I'd love it if he called the team the Lasers


Bring back Klik the Mouse!



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awhom111



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PostPosted: 06/25/19 9:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
I'm not accusing them of lying or manipulating particularly, I'm just not as convinced of the conviction and determination to add a WNBA team as you are. It's just been a very long time when they could've done it if they wanted with minimal difficulty and outlay, and they haven't. I'm not convinced that finally opening the doors on the new place changes things that much. And if the WNBA were in on this plan to add another team quite so imminently, why are they basically saying "nope" whenever anyone asks about expansion?


I am joining you on the skepticism that it is happening in 2020. Lacob is the public face of the investment group and Gruber is the other money man, but there are a lot of other people with stakes in this. Some of those people that I am familiar with I could see being opposed to a WNBA team and we've already had a spotlight on another guy in the group this season. I don't doubt that if it was all up to Lacob that there would be a team, but there will be a lot of intra-group politics going on these days, especially with lots of big decisions with the NBA team right now. Depending on just how many concerts they can book, I can see internal debate about whether a WNBA team would be more profitable than freeing up the arena for more dates.

I disagree with the idea that it would have been easy for them to get a team pre-arena. Not only would Lacob have had to figure out the capital situation with the rest of the investors, they would have had to find a place to play. If they were playing in Oakland, it would have required negotiating a lease for the team and the relationship already soured between the team and the arena authority. Any other location would have required rent and it makes more sense to wait for a chance to have a team at an arena they own.
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PostPosted: 06/26/19 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Edmonton, not Toronto, has already been home to the greatest basketball team in the history of Canada. See HERE.
tfan



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PostPosted: 06/26/19 2:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lacob was talking about pursuing a WNBA franchise at the right time back in March 2018.

Quote:
I think the Bay Area could sustain it and maybe it would be one of the most successful WNBA franchises. We will be interested in that at the right time.



In November 2017 it was reported that a WNBA team was on the Warriors radar after their new arena was built.

Quote:
Despite our enthusiasm for women's basketball, the time isn't right with everything else going on, but we have great interest. I think there is a real opportunity here.


toad455



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PostPosted: 06/26/19 3:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I know the league wants all 12 current teams stable, but at the same time, if two ownership groups are ready to start a team by 2021, why deny them?



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/26/19 5:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I know the league wants all 12 current teams stable, but at the same time, if two ownership groups are ready to start a team by 2021, why deny them?

Because they think another two might destablilise the existing system? Because they think the Governors group might not approve it? Because the difference between 1/12th of a pie and 1/14th of a pie (which is a drop of about 15%) might be a meaningful drop-off to some of the ownership groups? Because for all the shouting in the press these groups probably aren't always as ready as they claim? Because they're still waiting for someone to come up with a decent way to create expansion rosters that doesn't make them shit for several initial years and existing teams will still accept? Because designing a balanced schedule for 14 teams is a pain in the ass?



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Shades



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PostPosted: 06/26/19 5:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The “pie” should be significantly bigger if what CBS Sports pays for broadcasting rights for 40 games is anywhere proportionate to what ESPN pays for 16 regular season games plus playoffs.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/27/19 9:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I know the league wants all 12 current teams stable, but at the same time, if two ownership groups are ready to start a team by 2021, why deny them?

Because they think another two might destablilise the existing system? Because they think the Governors group might not approve it? Because the difference between 1/12th of a pie and 1/14th of a pie (which is a drop of about 15%) might be a meaningful drop-off to some of the ownership groups? Because for all the shouting in the press these groups probably aren't always as ready as they claim? Because they're still waiting for someone to come up with a decent way to create expansion rosters that doesn't make them shit for several initial years and existing teams will still accept? Because designing a balanced schedule for 14 teams is a pain in the ass?


X_________

And creating a WNBA franchise is no simple task. First, my understanding is there's about $500,000 worth of legal legwork to complete to get all those ducks in a row, then you have to secure an arena deal, hire a staff (no simple task, especially in sales, which might be the most crucial), locate office and practice space (not as easy as you might think), and be prepared to lose lots of money in the short (and perhaps long) run.

For the Warriors, say, or any NBA franchise, someone has to be designated/hired whose primary responsibility is the WNBA team, and then that presumably very qualified person has to be given the resources to make it all work.

And of course, all this talk about "groups interested in a franchise" is mostly puffery. Remember all the "groups" that were going to buy the Liberty (and every other failing franchise)?



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