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Breaking: Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris Burning
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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 12:50 pm    ::: Breaking: Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris Burning Reply Reply with quote

Unbelievable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/world/europe/notre-dame-fire.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage



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Last edited by jammerbirdi on 04/16/19 2:43 am; edited 1 time in total
GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That doesn't look like it can be put out without most of it being destroyed. No water is being sprayed on it from what I can see on live TV.

The spire was constructed in the 13th century and includes three relics, including a piece of the crown of thorns.
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 1:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tragic but also pathetic.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 2:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One of the comments I read on twitter:

Quote:
The universe is not pleased with the Catholic church and all the molestation of innocent kids.

2019 is the year of redemption! DEBTS must be paid this year. Don't take this lightly.

This happening right before Easter is no coincidence!



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 2:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Offhand, I can't think of any architectural symbol in any major city -- and symbol of that city -- that is older and more venerated than Notre Dame. 13 million visitors a year. Paris will never be the same.
pilight



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 2:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

An interesting thread about the practical issues involved with fighting a fire of this type

https://twitter.com/GreggFavre/status/1117847726786371585



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 2:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am heartbroken about this. More even than I would have expected to be. I visited Notre Dame in 1996 and again in 1999. I have never been to a landmark that had such an effect on me. It was moving and awe-inspiring in a way that I haven't been able to put into words even 20 years later.

I am in mourning this afternoon.


sambista



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 3:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

and then the idiot president weighs in. i had to turn it off. couldn't listen.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 3:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A sad loss in an especially sad time for the planet and mankind.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 3:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/15/19 7:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Genero36 wrote:
One of the comments I read on twitter:

Quote:
The universe is not pleased with the Catholic church and all the molestation of innocent kids.

2019 is the year of redemption! DEBTS must be paid this year. Don't take this lightly.

This happening right before Easter is no coincidence!

The idea that this is a loss only for the Catholic Church, and that it is therefore some sort of karmic retribution for their (in)actions surrounding child abuse is a terrible take.

This sort of loss is a loss to the entire world. I'm about as atheistic as they come, and I mourn this devastating loss with all my being.



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sambista



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 2:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Genero36 wrote:
One of the comments I read on twitter:

Quote:
The universe is not pleased with the Catholic church and all the molestation of innocent kids.

2019 is the year of redemption! DEBTS must be paid this year. Don't take this lightly.

This happening right before Easter is no coincidence!

The idea that this is a loss only for the Catholic Church, and that it is therefore some sort of karmic retribution for their (in)actions surrounding child abuse is a terrible take.

This sort of loss is a loss to the entire world. I'm about as atheistic as they come, and I mourn this devastating loss with all my being.


just for the sake of argument, why can't it be both? i'm not sure the comment was intended to mean a loss "only" for the catholic church. it could be karmic consequences for both the church and society at large for allowing it to take hold and persist for so long.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 3:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Genero36 wrote:
One of the comments I read on twitter:

Quote:
The universe is not pleased with the Catholic church and all the molestation of innocent kids.

2019 is the year of redemption! DEBTS must be paid this year. Don't take this lightly.

This happening right before Easter is no coincidence!

The idea that this is a loss only for the Catholic Church, and that it is therefore some sort of karmic retribution for their (in)actions surrounding child abuse is a terrible take.

This sort of loss is a loss to the entire world. I'm about as atheistic as they come, and I mourn this devastating loss with all my being.


just for the sake of argument, why can't it be both? i'm not sure the comment was intended to mean a loss "only" for the catholic church. it could be karmic consequences for both the church and society at large for allowing it to take hold and persist for so long.

Because the victims, as part of humanity, are also diminished by such a loss.

Any sort of karmic balance would, by necessity, have to be something that would not impact those that are owed the karmic debt. And the destruction of one of the great wonders of the world would definitely not fall under that definition.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 8:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How about let’s start with the first sentence. The universe is neither pleased nor displeased. The universe is indifferent to the doings of mankind.

And even that statement confers a state of conscious being and of having a perspective neither of which exists because the universe is completely and solely compromised of gas and rocks and space and relatively insignificant organisms of which we appear to be at the zenith of evolutionary development. It was only worded in the way it is so that the few puny human minds at the zenith of evolutionary development yet capable of not losing themselves and a rational fact-based world view to mere superstition and fantasy could, by way of a metaphor, better understand the existential realities that define all things.

Could someone who believed the Catholic Church had a debt that must be paid by them committing arson and destroying Notre Dame have started the fire? Thus making it ‘no accident?’ Absolutely. Would it have been a just punishment for the Catholic Church and the world for letting the sexual abuse of children to continue for so long? Could be. None of that is for me to say. I’m inclined to err on the side of not destroying beautiful things created by man in the name of punishing evil things perpetrated by other men.

Is 2019 the year of redemption in which debts must be paid? God (figure of speech) I hope that thought wasn’t authored by a fellow Rebkellian.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 11:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

678 million pledged already towards the rebuild. Gotta love that.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 04/16/19 2:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lincoln assassination, Titanic sinking, Boston Marathon bombing, Notre Dame Cathedral fire.


What are historic events that took place on April 15th.



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StevenHW



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 2:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In another similar incident that took place at the same time...

https://www.newsweek.com/notre-dame-fire-aqsa-mosque-1397259

Quote:
A fire broke out at the revered Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in Jerusalem just as flames ravaged the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 04/16/19 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Genero36 wrote:
One of the comments I read on twitter:

Quote:
The universe is not pleased with the Catholic church and all the molestation of innocent kids.

2019 is the year of redemption! DEBTS must be paid this year. Don't take this lightly.

This happening right before Easter is no coincidence!

The idea that this is a loss only for the Catholic Church, and that it is therefore some sort of karmic retribution for their (in)actions surrounding child abuse is a terrible take.

This sort of loss is a loss to the entire world. I'm about as atheistic as they come, and I mourn this devastating loss with all my being.


just for the sake of argument, why can't it be both? i'm not sure the comment was intended to mean a loss "only" for the catholic church. it could be karmic consequences for both the church and society at large for allowing it to take hold and persist for so long.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure the tweet was all about 'retribution' towards The Church. Which is understandable, albeit misguided.

There's a line from an old, favorite hymn of mine: "surely in temples built with hands, God the Most High is not dwelling". That keeps playing in my mind as I hear people railing about the loss. It IS a loss of human accomplishments that spans many years, inspired by their *understanding* of "God". God (as I choose to perceive the concept) is not the least bit diminished.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 12:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Video from 7 years ago
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5ux4LC1kdQI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

10 months ago
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XQUOl8VnudA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

5 months ago
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xVK3QjkX2s0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 5:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There are much bigger issues in the world. It’s just a building. Nothing more. Nothing less.


Luuuc



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 7:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
There are much bigger issues in the world. It’s just a building. Nothing more. Nothing less.

It is a bit less than a few days ago.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 7:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Can’t do a link this is from NBC

Burned black churches in Louisiana raise $1.3M after Notre Dame fire

The devastating fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris led to an immediate outpouring of donations and an ambitious pledge by the French president to rebuild within five years.

But a continent away, the blaze also spurred more than $1.3 million in donations to rebuild three historically black churches burned in suspected hate crimes in Louisiana.

The fires at the three churches in St. Landry Parish occurred over 10 days beginning at the end of March. Authorities said they were deliberately set and have arrested a suspect.

As of Sunday,a GoFundMe campaignseeking donations for the churches had raised only about $50,000. By Wednesday afternoon, donations had soared to more than $1.3 million. The money is to be distributed equally among the three churches, which were all a century old.

“It gives you a new hope in society,” said Gerald Toussaint, the pastor at one of the churches, Mount Pleasant Baptist Church. "It gives you a new hope in people because it shows a lot of people have a good heart."

In the wake of pledges to rebuild Notre Dame, the GoFundMe campaign was shared widely on social media by prominent figures like Hillary Clinton, journalists such as CNN’s Jake Tapper and Yashar Ali, and various celebrities who pledged to match donations.

"As we hold Paris in our hearts today, let's also send some love to our neighbors in Louisiana," Hillary Clinton tweeted Tuesday.

Donors to the GoFundMe page echoed the sentiment.

"I donated because if billionaires can give billions to rebuild Notre Dame, I can at least donate $50 to rebuild these churches," a user identified as Chester Fisher wrote on the page's comments section.

And Raleigh Romine wrote, "These churches shouldn't get lost in the response to the Notre Dame tragedy."

Toussaint said he was not shocked by the skyrocketing donations because “I know there are good people in the world” but he was “surprised that it’s such a big reaction ... very, very appreciative.”

The first of the fires was reported on March 26 at St. Mary Baptist Church, the next on April 2 at Greater Union Baptist Church and the third on April 4 at Mount Pleasant Baptist Church. There were no reported injuries at any of the fires.

Police later arrested Holden Matthews, 21, the son of a deputy sheriff, and he faces hate crime and arson charges.

Freddie Jack, a pastor and president of the Seventh District Missionary Baptist Association, said the donations for both Notre Dame and the Louisiana churches showed “the great compassion and generosity of people.”

“When tragedy such as this strikes, we put aside our differences," he said. "People from all walks of life pull together their resources and assist people."



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 7:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
There are much bigger issues in the world. It’s just a building. Nothing more. Nothing less.

A building that has stood for over 850 years and is a place of cultural significance for billions.

It's like saying the Pyramids are just giant tombs, nothing more or less, or that Everest is just a giant rock. We have lost so many wonders over the years, the Colossus at Rhodes, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, the Great Library at Alexandria...we should not diminish those that still stand.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
There are much bigger issues in the world. It’s just a building. Nothing more. Nothing less.

A building that has stood for over 850 years and is a place of cultural significance for billions.

It's like saying the Pyramids are just giant tombs, nothing more or less, or that Everest is just a giant rock. We have lost so many wonders over the years, the Colossus at Rhodes, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, the Great Library at Alexandria...we should not diminish those that still stand.


Absolutely. We are as a species what we create and leave behind, the beauty, brilliance, etc. I say that as an atheist. The loss that has occurred here is so awful for humanity that for something that didn't involve a loss of life it is as bad as anything I can remember. The commitment to rebuild and the money being offered for that effort is amazing. I know people are up in arms about that. I don't know what kind of a world people think they're going to create without understanding that some things that are not critical to the physical well being and security of the species are still very critical to the well being of the species nonetheless. We have to be continually soothed and inspired and shown the extremes of what we can accomplish. As a species, it is really hard for us to have nice things. The few at the top have it going on and always will. But some things have to be there for everyone to have and to reflect upon and touch up close and draw inspiration from and to aspire to something bigger and better within the human race.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
As a species, it is really hard for us to have nice things. The few at the top have it going on and always will. But some things have to be there for everyone to have and to reflect upon and touch up close and draw inspiration from and to aspire to something bigger and better within the human race.


"Nice things"?? Shocked As an (evolved?) species, we need to be constantly reminded that "Nice Things" are not of a material nature, and that "The few at the top" may have fancy/expensive *material* things, but those items should never be conflated with "Nice Things"....those folks have all too often forgotten what "Nice Things" really are: kindness, humility, sincerity, honesty, etc.

"Nice Things" are what folks have done for the Not-Famous churches in Louisiana. Drawing people to care enough to refurbish them, and inspiring people to donate to the refurbishing of Notre Dame....THOSE are the "Nicest Things" to have. Cool



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