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root_thing



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PostPosted: 10/17/19 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Brittney Sykes had two torn ACLs within a span of 10 months. As I mentioned previously, Jacki Gemelos had five ACL surgeries in five years. Obviously, both players are still playing and neither seems impeded by those old injuries.



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PostPosted: 10/17/19 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
ucbart wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Duke's Leaonna Odom was a top ten player coming out of high school who has not developed or reached her potential under Joanne P. McCallie.

I expect her to be a steal for the 2020 draft, as she will become a much better pro with the right coaching.


I agree with this 110%. I also want to bring up Joyner Holmes. During her freshman year, I thought she was a sure thing 1st team All-American and potential NPOY in her senior year. I know she's been through some things and had injuries, but if this doesn't expose Aston as a great recruiter/horrendous coach, I don't know what will. I think in the right system with the right coach she could be a STEAL in the 3rd round.


But, what are the examples of players like that who have huge potential bu don't develop in college and then do develop in the pros. I am sure they are there, but I am having trouble coming up with them.


Ariel Atkins is a good example. In college she was solid but didn’t have big numbers. No one projected her to go as high as she did in the draft and she has been a great pro. Terrible college coaching who didn’t utilize her talents. Now she’s won a WNBA Championship and played a big role on the team.


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PostPosted: 10/17/19 5:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Brittney Sykes had two torn ACLs within a span of 10 months. As I mentioned previously, Jacki Gemelos had five ACL surgeries in five years. Obviously, both players are still playing and neither seems impeded by those old injuries.


Jacki Gemelos is a shell of the player she was, factoring in where she was as a high school prospect.


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PostPosted: 10/17/19 5:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shmermerer1 wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
ucbart wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Duke's Leaonna Odom was a top ten player coming out of high school who has not developed or reached her potential under Joanne P. McCallie.

I expect her to be a steal for the 2020 draft, as she will become a much better pro with the right coaching.


I agree with this 110%. I also want to bring up Joyner Holmes. During her freshman year, I thought she was a sure thing 1st team All-American and potential NPOY in her senior year. I know she's been through some things and had injuries, but if this doesn't expose Aston as a great recruiter/horrendous coach, I don't know what will. I think in the right system with the right coach she could be a STEAL in the 3rd round.


But, what are the examples of players like that who have huge potential bu don't develop in college and then do develop in the pros. I am sure they are there, but I am having trouble coming up with them.


Ariel Atkins is a good example. In college she was solid but didn’t have big numbers. No one projected her to go as high as she did in the draft and she has been a great pro. Terrible college coaching who didn’t utilize her talents. Now she’s won a WNBA Championship and played a big role on the team.


Both Texas and Duke are programs that I think we all agree have underachieved with their current head coaches, despite the solid talent they seem to get year in & year out. Interesting how we find ourselves talking about players from these two schools, as both institutions share the same former head coach in Coach G.
McCallie has had higher highs (four straight Elite 8's) and lower lows (her worst record at Duke was this past season). Aston has been more, uhh, "consistent", but can't seem to get her team to the Final Four. Neither team, really. If I were a WNBA GM and the draft was entering the late first round, I'd definitely take one of these talented players with unrealized potential over a player that's more realized but has more question marks about her game transferring over to the pros.

Seniors I'm keeping an eye on from both teams this year:

Texas: Lashann Higgs: Undersized SG that could learn to be a CG; known for being efficient, but how does she bounce back from her ACL injury? | Joyner Holmes: Some sort of F, leaning towards PF; Could have a breakout year if she's finally healthy | Sug Sutton: PG; quick and a good distributor but can she have a better year shooting the 3?

Duke: Haley Górecki: Defensive SG with size; has experience running the offense; really needs to have an above-average year shooting to get drafted imo | Leaonna Odom: Some sort of F, leaning towards SF; consistent, known for her great versatility and athleticism, but seemingly hasn't improved a whole lot from freshman year




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root_thing



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PostPosted: 10/17/19 6:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Brittney Sykes had two torn ACLs within a span of 10 months. As I mentioned previously, Jacki Gemelos had five ACL surgeries in five years. Obviously, both players are still playing and neither seems impeded by those old injuries.


Jacki Gemelos is a shell of the player she was, factoring in where she was as a high school prospect.


Except we never got to see if that was real or mostly hype. What we do know is that Gemelos plays with no limp or visible impediment. Maybe she's not as fast. Maybe she can't jump as high. But Jacki turns 31 next month and she's still playing professionally. Sykes was able to dunk with two hands when she was 16. Coming out of college, she could still dunk with one. Perhaps both players are diminished, but clearly multiple ACL surgeries have not been career-ending. That was the speculation surrounding Nyara Sabally that kicked off this discussion.



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PostPosted: 10/17/19 6:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Shmermerer1 wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
ucbart wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Duke's Leaonna Odom was a top ten player coming out of high school who has not developed or reached her potential under Joanne P. McCallie.

I expect her to be a steal for the 2020 draft, as she will become a much better pro with the right coaching.


I agree with this 110%. I also want to bring up Joyner Holmes. During her freshman year, I thought she was a sure thing 1st team All-American and potential NPOY in her senior year. I know she's been through some things and had injuries, but if this doesn't expose Aston as a great recruiter/horrendous coach, I don't know what will. I think in the right system with the right coach she could be a STEAL in the 3rd round.


But, what are the examples of players like that who have huge potential bu don't develop in college and then do develop in the pros. I am sure they are there, but I am having trouble coming up with them.


Ariel Atkins is a good example. In college she was solid but didn’t have big numbers. No one projected her to go as high as she did in the draft and she has been a great pro. Terrible college coaching who didn’t utilize her talents. Now she’s won a WNBA Championship and played a big role on the team.


Both Texas and Duke are programs that I think we all agree have underachieved with their current head coaches, despite the solid talent they seem to get year in & year out. Interesting how we find ourselves talking about players from these two schools, as both institutions share the same former head coach in Coach G.
McCallie has had higher highs (four straight Elite 8's) and lower lows (her worst record at Duke was this past season). Aston has been more consistent, but can't seem to get her team to the Final Four. Neither team, really. If I were a WNBA GM and the draft was entering the late first round, I'd definitely take one of these talented players with unrealized potential than a player that's more realized but has more question marks about her game transferring over to the pros.

Seniors I'm keeping an eye on from both teams this year:

Texas: Lashann Higgs: Undersized SG that could learn to be a CG; known for being efficient, but how does she bounce back from her ACL injury? | Joyner Holmes: Some sort of F, leaning towards PF; Could have a breakout year if she's finally healthy | Sug Sutton: PG; quick and a good distributor but can she have a better year shooting the 3?

Duke: Haley Górecki: Defensive SG with size; has experience running the offense; really needs to have an above-average year shooting to get drafted imo | Leaonna Odom: Some sort of F, leaning towards SF; consistent, known for her great versatility and athleticism, but seemingly hasn't improved a whole lot from freshman year


Totally agree. Both programs have done a terrible job. Mercedes Russel is another one. I had a feeling she was going to be a lot better in the pros. Holly is another one that did a bad job getting these women to get to their potential.


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PostPosted: 10/17/19 6:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's interesting how college helps, hinders or doesn't really affect highly ranked girls.

One thing, though: If a player doesn't make it, there's not much way to tell how much her college development had to with it, as opposed to, among other things, how she changed as a person when she went away to college.

But when a highly rated young player isn't impressive at the start of her WNBA career, goes overseas or spends a year or two figuring things out, and then blossoms ... I take that to show she didn't develop much in college.

Now, it could be the player's issue, or it could be the coach and system, bu if enough players who went to the same school fit that mold, then inferences can be drawn about the quality of coaching in the program.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 10/18/19 2:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Duke: Haley Górecki: Defensive SG with size; has experience running the offense; really needs to have an above-average year shooting to get drafted imo |


When Haley has a primary facilitator (2017-18, when Lexie Brown was the lead playmaker and primarily handled the PG position), Gorecki is much more efficient. That year (2017-1Cool, she averaged 11.0 points, 3.9 rebounds, and 2.9 assists, while shooting 42.3 percent overall and 42.3 percent from three.

When she does not (2018-19) and she is forced into being the designated PG/playmaker, she simply is nowhere near efficient (especially when the coach does not vary the offensive sets to run plays and account for the fact that a non-PG has to fill the role). Last year, she led Duke in points (17.2), rebounds (7.1), assists (3.87), and steals (2.63). But she shot 36.5 percent from the floor and 27.9 percent from three.

Duke will get back to having a true PG this year, with Kyra Lambert's return (former MCDAA) who missed the past two years with injuries. She will be healthy and ready to go -- and will bring much needed stability to the playmaking role. Gorecki can go back to being a secondary facilitator and running around screens for open shots.

The thing about Gorecki is that she is a very tough competitor and incredibly resilient. She is certainly maximizing her time in college and developing into an All-ACC player (she was ranked between 43 and 55 coming out of high school by three rating services).

But I am not sure if I see WNBA-level talent. She will go down as a very good player for Duke and will have a few statistical honors. But she does not have the elite or savant skills necessary for the WNBA.

I could see her making a roster here and there and getting into a few games, similar to Haley Peters. That might be it, however. It does not take away from her collegiate accomplishments.

Stormeo wrote:
Leaonna Odom: Some sort of F, leaning towards SF; consistent, known for her great versatility and athleticism, but seemingly hasn't improved a whole lot from freshman year


I have repeatedly posted (on Rebkell, The Devils Den, and the Boneyard) that I believe Leaonna Odom is a sleeper pick for the 2020 WNBA Draft. She has great size for the wing – which will have to be her position in the WNBA, unless she can defend power forwards. She has the ability to go one-on-one, taking defenders off the dribble and getting to the rack or pulling up in the paint.

But Odom desperately needs to expand her shooting range – she shot 58.9 percent from the free throw line and went 0-1 from three last year (after shooting 59.7 percent from the charity strip in 2017-18 and going 0-1 from three and shooting 63.9 percent from the line and 0-2 from three as a freshman). This is critical to her success, as is finding the right “fit” in terms of the team (e.g., Alyssa Thomas and Conn; not an exact comparison, but one predicated on fit with the four players surrounding her).

With Odom, however, she has to develop her passing skills (she gets more assists, but still has a negative A/TO ratio) and either expand her range or prove she can defend bigger, more physical power forwards (though if she can, it will make her a better prospect for the W).

In contrast to Gorecki, Odom has great size for her position and elite athleticism. But she has yet to embrace an "alpha" mentality. While deferring to Lexie Brown and Rebecca Greenwell in her first two years (despite the fact she was able to light up the 2018 NCAAT (21.0 points, 7.0 rebounds and 3.0 assists in three games, including 22 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists against UConn), Odom clearly settled in as the #2 option behind Gorecki in 2018-19, instead of bursting forth as the top dog (like she showed she could be in the 2018 postseason).

My guess is that unlike the physically imposing and strong Alyssa Thomas, Odom will have to be a fluid forward in the WNBA (PF on offense, SF on defense), so she will need to be drafted by a team that can use her and surround her with shooters (and develop her outside shot in the offseason).

She likely will not be drafted in the first round, but for the right team, she could easily be a second round steal.


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PostPosted: 10/18/19 5:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lambert returning will really help out that entire Duke team - hopefully she plays the whole season. Although, I know some Duke WBB fans wouldn't mind another bad season if it means McCallie is that much closer out the door Wink (no idea how long her contract runs through, though)

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
The thing about Gorecki is that she is a very tough competitor and incredibly resilient. She is certainly maximizing her time in college and developing into an All-ACC player (she was ranked between 43 and 55 coming out of high school by three rating services).

But I am not sure if I see WNBA-level talent. She will go down as a very good player for Duke and will have a few statistical honors. But she does not have the elite or savant skills necessary for the WNBA.


Gorecki gets drafted if she shoots 40% from 3 and duplicates her other non-shooting stats imo.

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
I have repeatedly posted (on Rebkell, The Devils Den, and the Boneyard) that I believe Leaonna Odom is a sleeper pick for the 2020 WNBA Draft. She has great size for the wing – which will have to be her position in the WNBA, unless she can defend power forwards. She has the ability to go one-on-one, taking defenders off the dribble and getting to the rack or pulling up in the paint.

...She likely will not be drafted in the first round, but for the right team, she could easily be a second round steal.


Odom I could even see being picked by one of the Connecticut first-round picks if they don't trade either of them and have a need for a backup 3/4 (which they might if Morgan Tuck doesn't return); she too could learn a lot from Alyssa Thomas - just nothing regular shooting-related lol.


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PostPosted: 10/18/19 6:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
The thing about Gorecki is that she is a very tough competitor and incredibly resilient. She is certainly maximizing her time in college and developing into an All-ACC player (she was ranked between 43 and 55 coming out of high school by three rating services).

But I am not sure if I see WNBA-level talent. She will go down as a very good player for Duke and will have a few statistical honors. But she does not have the elite or savant skills necessary for the WNBA.


Gorecki gets drafted if she shoots 40% from 3 and duplicates her other non-shooting stats imo.


Gorecki getting drafted and having WNBA-level talent are not the same thing (just as getting drafted and making a WNBA roster are not the same thing).


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PostPosted: 10/18/19 6:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
The thing about Gorecki is that she is a very tough competitor and incredibly resilient. She is certainly maximizing her time in college and developing into an All-ACC player (she was ranked between 43 and 55 coming out of high school by three rating services).

But I am not sure if I see WNBA-level talent. She will go down as a very good player for Duke and will have a few statistical honors. But she does not have the elite or savant skills necessary for the WNBA.


Gorecki gets drafted if she shoots 40% from 3 and duplicates her other non-shooting stats imo.


Gorecki getting drafted and having WNBA-level talent are not the same thing (just as getting drafted and making a WNBA roster are not the same thing).


True, I just mean that getting drafted is half the battle; and players have a better chance of sticking onto a team if they show they don't have a glaring weakness on either side of the ball. I'd still like to see how she performs her senior year, as I like her size, skills, and the fact that Duke players seem to find their way in the W. Not particularly rational, but idc!


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PostPosted: 11/04/19 2:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27914075/the-top-25-players-women-college-basketball-2019-20

ESPN’s Top 25 College Players 2019-2020
1. Sabrina Ionescu, Oregon, G, 5-foot-11, senior
2. Lauren Cox, Baylor, F, 6-foot-4, senior
3. Chennedy Carter, Texas A&M, G, 5-foot-7, junior
4. Kaila Charles, Maryland, G, 6-foot-1, senior
5. Ruthy Hebard, Oregon, F, 6-foot-4, senior
6. Crystal Dangerfield, UConn, G, 5-foot-5, senior
7. Beatrice Mompremier, Miami, F, 6-foot-4, senior
8. Satou Sabally, Oregon, F, 6-foot-4, junior
9. Destiny Slocum, Oregon State, G, 5-foot-7, junior
10. Christyn Williams, UConn, G, 5-foot-11, sophomore
11. Michaela Onyenwere, UCLA , F, 6-foot, junior
12. Aari McDonald, Arizona, G, 5-foot-6, junior
13. Mikayla Pivec, Oregon State, G, 5-foot-10, senior
14. Kiana Williams, Stanford, G, 5-foot-8, junior
15. Megan Walker, UConn, F, 6-foot-1, junior
16. Bella Alarie, Princeton, G/F, 6-foot-4, senior
17. Rhyne Howard, Kentucky, G, 6-foot-2, sophomore
18. Chelsea Dungee, Arkansas, G, 5-foot-11, junior
19. Tynice Martin, West Virginia, G, 5-foot-11, senior
20. DiJonai Carrington, Stanford, G, 5-foot-11, senior
21. Kiah Gillespie, Florida State, F, 6-foot-2, senior
22. Peyton Williams, Kansas State, F, 6-foot-4, senior
23. Elizabeth Balogun, Louisville, G, 6-foot-1, sophomore
24. Ae'rianna Harris, Purdue, F, 6-foot-1, senior
25. Shadeen Samuels, Seton Hall, F, 6-foot, senior


Senior
Under current CBA guidelines
Draft eligible
Draft ineligible



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PostPosted: 11/05/19 12:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Brb (blindly) adding Shadeen Samuels to my WNBA prospects chart after checking out her stats Laughing I wish Queenie were here to tell us more about her since Seton Hall is one of her teams.

Glad to see Kaila Charles in their Top 5. Some people have her getting drafted towards the end of the first round, and if that really ends up being the case, she'll automatically be the steal of the draft.

Dangerfield ain't the 6th best player in the country imo, but she has enough talent offensively to where she could be if she has a good senior year. I'd also like to see Walker have herself a breakout year.

If Sabally comes out early, I think with her game she'll have an easier time transitioning into the W than Hebard (needs to really bulk up and expand her face-up game) and Ionescu (it will take her some time to transition from a true SG at Oregon to a WNBA starting PG in New York).

I wonder what kind of year Alarie will have with a new coach, and presumably still not a whole lot of talent around her.

I really like Onyenwere for the 2021 Draft. She'll make a fantastic SF with her face-up game, slashing ability, physicality, and lack of a true weakness - not too unlike Kaila Charles this year. Onyenwere will absolutely be worthy of a lottery pick by then imo.


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PostPosted: 11/05/19 10:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dangerfield is too high. Must be that UCONN tag she's got. Slocum's not a top 25 player. I just don't get the hype around her. Most likely to declare early: 1. Carter, 2. Sabally, 3. McDonald. Slocum's not pro ready. Walker stays at UCONN. Not that high on Dungee, so I think another year at Arkansas will get her into the first round for 2021.



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PostPosted: 11/06/19 11:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5kfF_34lLmk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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PostPosted: 11/06/19 8:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Chelsea Dungee on the Hog Pod
<iframe width="100%" height="166" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/708785438&color=ff5500&show_comments=true"></iframe>



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PostPosted: 11/07/19 10:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Carter’s stat line against Team USA



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PostPosted: 11/07/19 10:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Carter's clearly pro-ready. I don't see why she wouldn't enter early. She's easily a lottery pick(#4 to Atlanta??).



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PostPosted: 11/07/19 11:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Carter's clearly pro-ready. I don't see why she wouldn't enter early. She's easily a lottery pick(#4 to Atlanta??).

She might not be the greatest fit (although maybe that depends on whether you've sold all your property on Kelsey Mitchell Island), but who are Indiana passing on her for at #3?

Based on this very small sample size, she's leaps and bounds ahead of someone like Destiny Slocum.



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PostPosted: 11/07/19 11:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Carter's clearly pro-ready. I don't see why she wouldn't enter early. She's easily a lottery pick(#4 to Atlanta??).


Oh toad you like her now? Shocked



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PostPosted: 11/07/19 11:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Back in July, when it was still possible that NY could get any pick 1-3, I argued in favor of taking Carter even though people thought she would be a bad fit. I just thought she was far and away the best player available if she came out:

Quote:
I'm not necessarily a big Chennedy Carter fan, and I would certainly take Ionesco and Cox first. However, I think fans are going overboard in assuming Carter would definitely be a gunner at the next level. Her shots per game last season were slightly less than what Plum took as a senior. Plum has not been a chucker as a pro. Furthermore, folks are assuming a rookie will come in and do what she likes... I don't think that will happen, and if it does Carter will get benched until she sees the light. I would also point out that Chennedy has been on three Team USA squads. USA Basketball has never been shy about leaving people off their team at any level. There are plenty of other good young players available, so I don't think they would put Carter on three teams if they thought she was a disruptive influence.

I'd prefer a more well-rounded player than Carter. However, New York would be foolish to not take her if she is the best player available...


http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?p=1583640&highlight=#1583640

Unless Sabally also enters early, Carter is clearly in the top three for me. Mompremier is a nice college player, but I haven't seen anything that makes me confident she'll be a good pro. You can even make the argument that Carter is a safer pick than Cox because we know her combination of one-on-one skill and athleticism works at the next level.



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PostPosted: 11/08/19 1:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Carter is hands down a top 3 pick and will be a legit 18+ ppg scorer. However, I wish team USA had better wing defenders on their roster.....Like really?...Augustus,Taurasi,Diggins,C.Gray Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: 11/08/19 2:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So I guess we need both Sallaby and Carter to have good years and enter the draft because this just makes sense

1. NY Ionescu 2. Dallas Cox 3. Indy Sallaby 4. Atl Carter

that just feels right in terms of flavor and fit with each team

(then something like 5. PX Mompremier 6. Minn Hebard 7. Seattle Pivec 8. Chi Holmes 9. Dallas Martin 10. Conn Dangerfield 11. Conn Bella Alarie 12. Was Laska and it makes the rest of the first fall into place as well)

but as Root points out if only Carter enters Indy could and should take her at #3 which begs the question,

What is K. Mitchell's trade value?

(Because no team needs both Chennedy and Kelsey.)

(K. Mitchell to Chi for G. Williams does that make any sense?
K. Mitchell to PX for the #5 pick?
#5 would probably be Mompremier or Dangerfield would K. Mitchell be a better option for PX whose current PGs January and Mitchell and main scoring guard Taurasi are all on the old side.
K. Mitchell to Atl for #4 same as above #4 would be Dangerfield or Mompremier would K. Mitchell work better in Atl? She would probably be better Then Montgomery or Bentley at this point.
Are these trades over valuing Mitchell is something like K. Mitchell for Coffey and a 2nd round pick more realistic from Atl?
I could also see K. Mitchell taking over the scoring off the bench role for LA but can't figure out the right trade K. Mitchell for Mabrey and LA's second round pick seems pretty low for her K. Mitchell for LA's 2021 1st round pick?)


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PostPosted: 11/08/19 6:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Carter's clearly pro-ready. I don't see why she wouldn't enter early. She's easily a lottery pick(#4 to Atlanta??).

She might not be the greatest fit (although maybe that depends on whether you've sold all your property on Kelsey Mitchell Island), but who are Indiana passing on her for at #3?

Based on this very small sample size, she's leaps and bounds ahead of someone like Destiny Slocum.


I think if Sabally also enters, that's who Indiana takes at #3. Then Carter goes #4 to Atlanta.



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PostPosted: 11/08/19 6:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Carter's clearly pro-ready. I don't see why she wouldn't enter early. She's easily a lottery pick(#4 to Atlanta??).

She might not be the greatest fit (although maybe that depends on whether you've sold all your property on Kelsey Mitchell Island), but who are Indiana passing on her for at #3?

Based on this very small sample size, she's leaps and bounds ahead of someone like Destiny Slocum.


I think if Sabally also enters, that's who Indiana takes at #3. Then Carter goes #4 to Atlanta.


Maya to atlanta for 4
If Carter is there?


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