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CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 778
Location: PA


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PostPosted: 04/14/19 12:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've actually had some lingering questions about UConn's upcoming season and transfers, but I wanted to wait until after the NCAAs to ask them (and now there's a proper thread where it fits).

I've read comments elsewhere about the lack of success of players who have transferred out of UConn (except for Delle Donne, but that was more of a transfer before she really experienced the program situation). However, I was wondering what was the success rate of players transferring into UConn? Are there enough examples to get an idea?

Partly I'm wondering about both the players adjusting to the UConn system and Auriemma adjusting to the players (IOW, trusting them on the court. It seemed like Stevens didn't play as much as she probably should have).

Both UConn and ND will be seriously down in numbers (UConn to 9 scholarship players and ND now down to 8 ), so grad transfers are likely considered a must for both programs.

I know that it usually takes a while for players to "get" the UConn system, which is why freshmen typically don't play much at UConn. How likely would a grad transfer get the system? Previous transfers would have had the year they sit out to become more familiar with that system, but a grad transfer wouldn't have that extra time. Would that player's actual playing experience be able to make up for that? Will Auriemma be willing to let a more experienced player who might not be as familiar with his system play more than he would have in the past?

Next year will be a very interesting year for a lot of teams.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 5639
Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 04/14/19 2:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some videos of Nika Muhl.

Does she have an off hand? Speed? Lateral quickness? An explosion step? A crossover? Tight handle? Pull-up jumper? Three-point shot? Predictive court vision? Finger roll layup? Magical passing? Swag?

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/v69W7pCSXSg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZEmKUCtUXws" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-y8cAIL6i80" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ss6y6uXwmno" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11785
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 04/14/19 3:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think PAC12 or B1G when I view her highlight reels.



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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 5639
Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 04/14/19 3:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
I think PAC12 or B1G when I view her highlight reels.


So, that means:

(1) she's too good for the AAC; or
(2) she's a combination of Sabrina Ionescu and Kelsey Mitchell; or
(3) something else?

Ahhh, that's just a rhetorical question.

All-makes videos are frequently deceiving, but she looks like she has potential. And she does seem to have an off hand.
acsuc99



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Posts: 683



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 8:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well now that I've had time to digest the end of the season I have come to one conclusion.

Geno is completely spooked by ND and Muffet.

Why did I come to this conclusion?

A couple of dumb founding statements by the HC from Storrs.

First-

"Notre Dame is the best team in the country and it's not even close."

Really? Not even an out by including Baylor? Baylor easily defeated UConn, while UConn beat ND in SB. Baylor w/ Cox was dominating ND.

Why would say he ND was by far the best? An out for if he lost to them? He genuinely thinks it despite clear evidence to the contrary?

"Notre Dame started the season better than us and ended it better than us. We just weren't good enough"

Ummm...let's have a refresher. UConn won in SB by 18 in December. UConn led by 9 in the 4TH QTR. It was a 1 pt game with a minute to go. Again, he sounds spooked by them.

As for the we just weren't good enough I'll leave it to Kim when she was asked about Geno's comments above. "I don't think Geno is giving his team enough credit." OUCH! Tell him Kim.

3 close Final 4 losses aren't disappointing seasons. But the way they lost them ranged from an abomination (Chong's final possession vs MSU), to bizarre coaching (No Azura, Gabby's final play in regulation), to a team and coaching staff clearly haunted by ghosts (2019 ending).

Almost every problem can be explained by the inability of this program to handle mess. Everything has to be smooth. Clean. Tidy. A well oiled machine. Only the players the head coach wants to coach are allowed in. Players like Espinoza Hunter are ushered out because the coach clearly can't handle a challenge. If any thing in the machine short circuits, it's chaos. No where is this more evident than the fact this coaching staff is not hitting the 5th year transfer circuit to try to fill out a workable roster for next year. That would require some flexibility by the coaching staff. Some ability to grow and adapt. The ability to coach and develop players the coach may not have coveted since they were 13 years old. They can't seem to do that. If they can't, why would the players be able to with their season on the line the last 3 years?


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 5394
Location: Shenandoah Valley


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PostPosted: 04/17/19 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's a pretty interesting perspective, acsuc. I've just kind of wondered about Geno's apparent lack of recruiting success in the last couple of years compared to Muffet's. He's been able to land *a* big star each year, but not much more. He's had a couple of transfers who did well at their previous schools; one left early and the other has been injured almost the whole time. Yet he still continues his pattern of playing only 6 or at most 7 deep most of the time. But what do I know, eh?



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linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 4019



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 4:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When is Geno going to wake up and take the advise of the deep thinkers and BB gurus on this board?

Until he does he's never going to amount to much. Rolling Eyes


acsuc99



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Posts: 683



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 7:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
When is Geno going to wake up and take the advise of the deep thinkers and BB gurus on this board?

Until he does he's never going to amount to much. Rolling Eyes


Maybe he should.

He apparently can only win now with a LOADED team of once in a lifetime type players like Stewie, Maya, DT. If he has a merely very good team he loses in the 4th quarter.

Another gem from Geno at the Final 4.

"X's and O's don't matter."


Yeah, it shows Geno. It shows.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 4019



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

acsuc99 wrote:
linkster wrote:
When is Geno going to wake up and take the advise of the deep thinkers and BB gurus on this board?

Until he does he's never going to amount to much. Rolling Eyes


Maybe he should.

He apparently can only win now with a LOADED team of once in a lifetime type players like Stewie, Maya, DT. If he has a merely very good team he loses in the 4th quarter.

Another gem from Geno at the Final 4.

"X's and O's don't matter."


Yeah, it shows Geno. It shows.


You want him to win like has once-in-a-lifetime-players when he has only very good players? Well, when you have very good players in the FF you lose more often than not. That's how it goes.

And I read all those Geno quotes you toss around. The difference is that I read the whole piece, not a phrase taken out of context for effect. And maybe you can explain how there can be more than one once-in-a-lifetime player in a lifetime? Just asking.


willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 725
Location: NorCal


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PostPosted: 04/18/19 5:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Geno is a systems coach. He has been successful because of it. The problem is that the WCBB dynamics have changed where the sort of players that used to fit his system are now more scarce. What used to attract players was his ability to develop players for the next level. In to days reality, players come into college far more developed in respect to individual skills than they were in the past.They have already put so much time into basketball though AAU and personal trainers they do not want to commit themselves to a program that requires the effort that Geno expects.

Stevens was an example of that. Geno had a program of development laid out for her to develop her back to the basket post game. Steven was satisfied just as she was a face to the basket forward. That really took Geno a-back. He was not ready for her type of player. The thing is that she is more and more representative of the new type of player coming out of high school.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 04/18/19 7:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
Geno is a systems coach. He has been successful because of it. The problem is that the WCBB dynamics have changed where the sort of players that used to fit his system are now more scarce. What used to attract players was his ability to develop players for the next level. In to days reality, players come into college far more developed in respect to individual skills than they were in the past.They have already put so much time into basketball though AAU and personal trainers they do not want to commit themselves to a program that requires the effort that Geno expects.

Stevens was an example of that. Geno had a program of development laid out for her to develop her back to the basket post game. Steven was satisfied just as she was a face to the basket forward. That really took Geno a-back. He was not ready for her type of player. The thing is that she is more and more representative of the new type of player coming out of high school.


Interesting (and valid!) points.



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summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 5394
Location: Shenandoah Valley


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PostPosted: 04/18/19 8:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
When is Geno going to wake up and take the advise of the deep thinkers and BB gurus on this board?

Until he does he's never going to amount to much. Rolling Eyes


Well, then, perhaps you might refrain from talking about Tennessee? It goes both ways, does it not? Very Happy



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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 1493
Location: New York


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PostPosted: 04/18/19 8:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

acsuc99 wrote:
Well now that I've had time to digest the end of the season I have come to one conclusion.

Geno is completely spooked by ND and Muffet.

Why did I come to this conclusion?

A couple of dumb founding statements by the HC from Storrs.

First-

"Notre Dame is the best team in the country and it's not even close."

Really? Not even an out by including Baylor? Baylor easily defeated UConn, while UConn beat ND in SB. Baylor w/ Cox was dominating ND.

Why would say he ND was by far the best? An out for if he lost to them? He genuinely thinks it despite clear evidence to the contrary?

"Notre Dame started the season better than us and ended it better than us. We just weren't good enough"

Ummm...let's have a refresher. UConn won in SB by 18 in December. UConn led by 9 in the 4TH QTR. It was a 1 pt game with a minute to go. Again, he sounds spooked by them.

As for the we just weren't good enough I'll leave it to Kim when she was asked about Geno's comments above. "I don't think Geno is giving his team enough credit." OUCH! Tell him Kim.

3 close Final 4 losses aren't disappointing seasons. But the way they lost them ranged from an abomination (Chong's final possession vs MSU), to bizarre coaching (No Azura, Gabby's final play in regulation), to a team and coaching staff clearly haunted by ghosts (2019 ending).

Almost every problem can be explained by the inability of this program to handle mess. Everything has to be smooth. Clean. Tidy. A well oiled machine. Only the players the head coach wants to coach are allowed in. Players like Espinoza Hunter are ushered out because the coach clearly can't handle a challenge. If any thing in the machine short circuits, it's chaos. No where is this more evident than the fact this coaching staff is not hitting the 5th year transfer circuit to try to fill out a workable roster for next year. That would require some flexibility by the coaching staff. Some ability to grow and adapt. The ability to coach and develop players the coach may not have coveted since they were 13 years old. They can't seem to do that. If they can't, why would the players be able to with their season on the line the last 3 years?



I have 3 things to say about this:

1. We haven't had an alpha on our team in 3 years. There has been no leader that takes the team and bosses it. We've had a ton of talented players, but not the leader that you need to be a championship team.

2. It's clear that Geno needs to tweak his recruiting strategies. I don't think he needs to change them that much, as I wouldn't want him to change what's worked for 35 years, but he needs to change with the times.

3. For 3 straight seasons, we've had 0 size! 0. I've said this 100 times, but the most devastating recruiting miss we've had in years, was Lauren Cox.


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 9749



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PostPosted: 04/18/19 9:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So if UConn doesn't win the national title, Geno is a mediocre coach?

If so, what does that say about the vast majority of coaches who have never even been to the Sweet 16?

And if only this year's national champion is a good coach, then it really doesn't mean much to say that Geno or anyone isn't really that good.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 12002
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 04/18/19 11:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
So if UConn doesn't win the national title, Geno is a mediocre coach?

I didn't read that implication anywhere. IMO, Geno's legacy is already cemented. But there are strong indications that he's not dominating the recruiting wars any more, which....leads to diminished dominance in terms of titles.



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Davis4632



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 549



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PostPosted: 04/18/19 2:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So if UConn doesn't win the national title, Geno is a mediocre coach?

I didn't read that implication anywhere. IMO, Geno's legacy is already cemented. But there are strong indications that he's not dominating the recruiting wars any more, which....leads to diminished dominance in terms of titles.


Where has Geno slipped in recruiting? He still gets the majority of #1 players coming out of high school surrounded by top 10 players of his choosing (according to UConn fans). He has the number 1 player of 2020 committed to UConn and he is the catbird's seat for the #1 player of 2021 He goes only 7 deep when he used to 8-9 deep and that's for his choosing as well.


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 8491
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 04/18/19 2:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
Howee wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So if UConn doesn't win the national title, Geno is a mediocre coach?

I didn't read that implication anywhere. IMO, Geno's legacy is already cemented. But there are strong indications that he's not dominating the recruiting wars any more, which....leads to diminished dominance in terms of titles.


Where has Geno slipped in recruiting? He still gets the majority of #1 players coming out of high school surrounded by top 10 players of his choosing (according to UConn fans). He has the number 1 player of 2020 committed to UConn and he is the catbird's seat for the #1 player of 2021 He goes only 7 deep when he used to 8-9 deep and that's for his choosing as well.



Laughing Laughing



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Davis4632



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 04/18/19 2:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Davis4632 wrote:
Howee wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So if UConn doesn't win the national title, Geno is a mediocre coach?

I didn't read that implication anywhere. IMO, Geno's legacy is already cemented. But there are strong indications that he's not dominating the recruiting wars any more, which....leads to diminished dominance in terms of titles.


Where has Geno slipped in recruiting? He still gets the majority of #1 players coming out of high school surrounded by top 10 players of his choosing (according to UConn fans). He has the number 1 player of 2020 committed to UConn and he is the catbird's seat for the #1 player of 2021 He goes only 7 deep when he used to 8-9 deep and that's for his choosing as well.



Laughing Laughing


Also according to the Boneyard, the #1 players he didn't get, was the #1 players he didn't "want" for whatever arbitrary reason (meddlesome parents, character issues, not talented enough, etc.)


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 04/18/19 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Davis4632 wrote:
Howee wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So if UConn doesn't win the national title, Geno is a mediocre coach?

I didn't read that implication anywhere. IMO, Geno's legacy is already cemented. But there are strong indications that he's not dominating the recruiting wars any more, which....leads to diminished dominance in terms of titles.


Where has Geno slipped in recruiting? He still gets the majority of #1 players coming out of high school surrounded by top 10 players of his choosing (according to UConn fans). He has the number 1 player of 2020 committed to UConn and he is the catbird's seat for the #1 player of 2021 He goes only 7 deep when he used to 8-9 deep and that's for his choosing as well.



Laughing Laughing


Also according to the Boneyard, the #1 players he didn't get, was the #1 players he didn't "want" for whatever arbitrary reason (meddlesome parents, character issues, not talented enough, etc.)


Yah. Like Lauren Cox....she's a real *problem*. Laughing

"Slippage"? DEFINITELY. He doesn't have anyone in ESPN's top ten for this fall. For Geno, that's just about a fall off a cliff. Razz

However--to me at least--#1s aren't the be-all/end-all. What was Ogunbowale (whom he desperately recruited)? Ionescu? Gustafson? Geno could consistently take in players #11-18 and make FF contenders....just not as easily as the teams he's become familiar with.



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CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 17771
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PostPosted: 04/18/19 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
However--to me at least--#1s aren't the be-all/end-all. What was Ogunbowale (whom he desperately recruited)? Ionescu? Gustafson? Geno could consistently take in players #11-18 and make FF contenders....just not as easily as the teams he's become familiar with.


RECRUITING RANKINGS

Arike Ogunbowale (HS 2015)
#4 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#5 - Prospects Nation
#6 - Blue Star Report
#10 - Collegiate Girls Basketball Report

Sabrina Ionescu (HS 2016)
#3 - Prospects Nation
#4 - Blue Star Report
#4 - Collegiate Girls Basketball Report
I could not the ASGR ranking for Ionescu in my archives


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11785
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 04/18/19 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if I'll ever see, on his SNY show, Geno blow his practice whistle and declare-- "x's and o's don't matter, let's go to the Dairy Bar. I'm buying!"



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ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 1493
Location: New York


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PostPosted: 04/19/19 7:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
I wonder if I'll ever see, on his SNY show, Geno blow his practice whistle and declare-- "x's and o's don't matter, let's go to the Dairy Bar. I'm buying!"


Ya know, I still haven't been to the dairy bar.


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11785
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 04/19/19 10:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
I wonder if I'll ever see, on his SNY show, Geno blow his practice whistle and declare-- "x's and o's don't matter, let's go to the Dairy Bar. I'm buying!"


Ya know, I still haven't been to the dairy bar.


pilgrim



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linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 04/19/19 8:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Davis4632 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Davis4632 wrote:
Howee wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So if UConn doesn't win the national title, Geno is a mediocre coach?

I didn't read that implication anywhere. IMO, Geno's legacy is already cemented. But there are strong indications that he's not dominating the recruiting wars any more, which....leads to diminished dominance in terms of titles.


Where has Geno slipped in recruiting? He still gets the majority of #1 players coming out of high school surrounded by top 10 players of his choosing (according to UConn fans). He has the number 1 player of 2020 committed to UConn and he is the catbird's seat for the #1 player of 2021 He goes only 7 deep when he used to 8-9 deep and that's for his choosing as well.



Laughing Laughing


Also according to the Boneyard, the #1 players he didn't get, was the #1 players he didn't "want" for whatever arbitrary reason (meddlesome parents, character issues, not talented enough, etc.)


Yah. Like Lauren Cox....she's a real *problem*. Laughing

"Slippage"? DEFINITELY. He doesn't have anyone in ESPN's top ten for this fall. For Geno, that's just about a fall off a cliff. Razz

However--to me at least--#1s aren't the be-all/end-all. What was Ogunbowale (whom he desperately recruited)? Ionescu? Gustafson? Geno could consistently take in players #11-18 and make FF contenders....just not as easily as the teams he's become familiar with.


So "according to the BY"? WOW an entire message board with a single opinion. ------------------------ so lets cut the BS of inventing facts so that others can come in and expand on the lies.

"ah. Like Lauren Cox....she's a real *problem*"

Another total lie. Maybe 2 posters reacted like that when Cox picked Texas but they were asked to shut up. And frankly, Cox looked a lot like ONO in her 1st year. Cox, like Wilson and every post Geno sought had already passed all the tests you mentioned. UConn fans cried when she picked Texas. And you failed to mention Collier, another Texas post who actually verballed to UConn and then in the throes of the Houston floods, decided to stay home and go to Texas. She and ONO would have made a superior front line for the next 3 years. Just like 2019's No 1 post Boston, who picked S Car when CT fans thought her a lock. Try and find a negative comment other than the usual "she made a mistake" comments you see everywhere.

When they win I read it's just all that talent. When they lose it's all "Geno made some big mistakes". And even when they win it's Geno painted himself into a corner for next year. The run is over" LOL But it's always about UConn. LOL

If you want to troll a UConn thread at least get your facts straight. It's one thing to be a flamer and/or a troll but there's no need to be an ignorant one also.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 5639
Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 04/19/19 10:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Geno and bigs.

He's had a few great ones, has always had at least one on his national championship teams, but seems to have had difficulties recruiting 6-3+ high school AA's.

In 1991 Geno recruited 6-4 Rebecca Lobo, a high school star, and in 1993 6-7 Kara Wolters, a high school project. Both were big contributors to the 1995 national championship team, and both became college AA's and NPOY's.

In 1997 Geno recruited 6-5 Kelly Schumacher, a relative unknown from Canada, who contributed to the 2000 national championship team and eventually played in the WNBA.

In 2001 Geno recruited 6-3 Jessica Moore, a high school star in remote Alaska but relatively unknown elsewhere, who was a contributor to UConn's national championships in 2002 and especially in 2003 and 2004. She played several years in the WNBA.

In 2006 Geno recruited 6-4 Tina Charles, a high school NPOY, who became a college AA and NPOY and who helped win UConn's national championships in 2009 and 2010.

In 2010 Geno recruited 6-5 Stefanie Dolson, the 37th ranked high school player on HoopGurlz, who became an AA and starter on the 2013 and 2014 national championship teams.

In 2012 Geno recruited 6-4 Breanna Stewart, who was All-Everything in high school and college and who starred in UConn's national championships in 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.

In between those six "NC bigs" -- and Moore wasn't really that big -- Geno missed a lot of the 6-3+ top ranked high school centers and power forwards from 1985 to 2019. 6-4 Olivia Nelson-Ododa in 2018 is the best high school center recruit since Stewart in 2012, but she hasn't yet shown out in college. (Kiah Stokes from the class of 2011 was only 6-3, but played bigger than that on defense and much smaller on offense, and never started.)

There is no big in UConn's 2019 recruiting class -- just one wing -- and the two commits so far from 2020 are both guards. It's not clear that UConn has the inside track on the best remaining bigs from 2020 such as 6-3 Angel Reese, 6-4 Hannah Gusters or 6-6 Kamilla Cardoso. (6-5 Cameron Brink pledged to Stanford and 6-4 Natalija Marshall pledged to Notre Dame.) It's rumored that 6-4 Amari DeBerry from 2021 -- ranked #2 after Azzi Fudd -- is a UConn lean.

So, has Geno been a poor recruiter of bigs? On the one hand, it seems silly to say so since Geno is the undisputed Lord of the Rings. On the other hand, he seems to have had a lot more success recruiting elite guards and forwards out of high school than elite centers, with probably only Lobo, Charles and Stewart (and maybe ONO) being in that category.
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