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calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5152
Location: Carson City


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PostPosted: 05/06/19 11:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I thought that waivers were going to be done at a specific time each week. Are you saying that waivers will be first come, first served prior to the first week. Also, if we are doing that are there limits on the number of trades/waiver pickups prior to the first games.

I would prefer a more orderly process. Say start the waivers at a specified time (perhaps Saturday May 11 at noon eastern, 9am pacific. I also think the number of waivers/trades pre first game should have the same limit as every other week. Since all teams are tied earliest in makes sense.


NYSports56



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1126
Location: New Jersey, USA


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PostPosted: 05/06/19 11:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
I thought that waivers were going to be done at a specific time each week. Are you saying that waivers will be first come, first served prior to the first week. Also, if we are doing that are there limits on the number of trades/waiver pickups prior to the first games.

I would prefer a more orderly process. Say start the waivers at a specified time (perhaps Saturday May 11 at noon eastern, 9am pacific. I also think the number of waivers/trades pre first game should have the same limit as every other week. Since all teams are tied earliest in makes sense.

I think most of this is covered in the first post's rules under Rosters and Transactions. Check it out and let me know if you have any questions or if something's not clear,


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6775



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PostPosted: 05/07/19 12:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think we should start the waiver wire process right after the last pick sort of like the training camp invites and whoever posts it first wins.

Also I don't think it matters that much we've selected 100 of 144 possible players no one of consequence is going to be in the waiver pool were basically going to be replacing 9th and 10th player with other 9th and 10th players who will never be used in an actual game unless someone's team is hit hard by the injury bug. It is not like someone is going to scoop up a bunch of all-stars off the wire and if they do more power to them if we all past on these players 10 times and then they blow up we've only got ourselves to blame.


NYSports56



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1126
Location: New Jersey, USA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 12:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I think we should start the waiver wire process right after the last pick sort of like the training camp invites and whoever posts it first wins.

Also I don't think it matters that much we've selected 100 of 144 possible players no one of consequence is going to be in the waiver pool were basically going to be replacing 9th and 10th player with other 9th and 10th players who will never be used in an actual game unless someone's team is hit hard by the injury bug. It is not like someone is going to scoop up a bunch of all-stars off the wire and if they do more power to them if we all past on these players 10 times and then they blow up we've only got ourselves to blame.

I don't think it's a big deal either, and that we should do it as soon as the last pick is over. I just wanted to make sure that there were no objections.


Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 10454
Location: Tiburon, CA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 12:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For ESPN fantasy draft games, all undrafted players are placed under waivers after the end of the draft. You can put in a wavier claim during this period, or wait until the waiver period clears, after which all players are then free to be picked up at will. Idea

I'm not sure why we keep straying from ESPN or otherwise established standard fantasy rules... Shocked

If all players become free agents immediately after the end of the draft, then mojo would get a clear advantage. Mojo/myrtle could end the draft at a time of their choosing and be first to add players before anyone realizes the draft has ended. Exclamation




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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6775



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PostPosted: 05/07/19 12:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
For ESPN fantasy draft games, all undrafted players are placed under waivers after the end of the draft. You can put in a wavier claim during this period, or wait until the waiver period clears, after which all players are then free to be picked up at will. Idea

I'm not sure why we keep straying from ESPN or otherwise established standard fantasy rules... Shocked

If all players become free agents immediately after the end of the draft, then mojo would get a clear advantage. Mojo/myrtle could end the draft at a time of their choosing and be first to add players before anyone realizes the draft has ended. Exclamation



Theoretically true but why would Mojo/Myrtle draft someone 9th or 10th only to sneakily end the draft so they can immediately cut someone to add someone else. If anything Mojo/Myrtle should be the last person to do that because they picked the player they thought best of the remaining 45 players.

Like "Ha ha, I took Brianna Turner with the 100th pick and now I waive her to pick up Mercedes Russell instead" just doesn't make sense.


Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 10454
Location: Tiburon, CA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 1:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ESPN puts every player on waivers after the draft for a reason. Why go out of our way to go against that? Question Idea



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NYSports56



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1126
Location: New Jersey, USA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 1:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
For ESPN fantasy draft games, all undrafted players are placed under waivers after the end of the draft. You can put in a wavier claim during this period, or wait until the waiver period clears, after which all players are then free to be picked up at will. Idea

I'm not sure why we keep straying from ESPN or otherwise established standard fantasy rules... Shocked

If all players become free agents immediately after the end of the draft, then mojo would get a clear advantage. Mojo/myrtle could end the draft at a time of their choosing and be first to add players before anyone realizes the draft has ended. Exclamation


So mojo/myrtle, having just drafted the player they thought was best from the talent pool, would have an advantage because they could sign a different player? I guess yes, technically they would if, immediately after the draft, they had an earlier drafted player they wanted to drop, and another player also wanted the same player.

But is this really a threat to happen? Is there a player that you are chomping at the bit to pick up, at the expense of cutting one of your just dropped players? If so, we will have a scheduled time when waivers will begin so that mojo/myrtle don't get their "clear advantage." That is the reason I asked if it was OK in the first place. If you aren't planning on immediately claiming a player, please stop complaining about a problem that doesn't exist.




Last edited by NYSports56 on 05/07/19 1:18 am; edited 1 time in total
NYSports56



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1126
Location: New Jersey, USA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 1:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

(bump)


NYSports56



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1126
Location: New Jersey, USA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 1:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
ESPN puts every player on waivers after the draft for a reason. Why go out of our way to go against that? Question Idea

Because I don't like waiver wire priorities and the complexities that come with them when running a league by hand. Also, your opinion of what is "standard" when it comes to fantasy leagues is only that: an opinion.

I also have opinions about how things should be run when it comes to leagues. Some of them may differ from yours. That's OK, but if you're not actually planning on using add/drop at the first opportunity, please spare the fake outrage that we're not doing things like ESPN. I solicited feedback on 90% of the decisions I made in this league, including this one. If you need a specified time, we'll give you one, but not unless you're really going to pick a player. If you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, I will soon learn to ignore you. Your criticism tends to border on ridicule, and it's not exactly pleasant to respond to.


Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 10454
Location: Tiburon, CA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 1:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No problem. I remember you said that I should 'trust you'. I trusted that we were having a standard fantasy draft game. Turns out, we're having a NYSports56 fantasy draft game and a very strange one at that. I didn't realize that.


But next year, I'll be commissioner and it will be all good, so no worries. Cheers! Mr. Green



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NYSports56



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1126
Location: New Jersey, USA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 1:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
No problem. I remember you said that I should 'trust you'. I trusted that we were having a standard fantasy draft game. Turns out, we're having a NYSports56 fantasy draft game and a very strange one at that. I didn't realize that.

But next year, I'll be commissioner and it will be all good, so no worries. Cheers! Mr. Green

I'm sorry, did you say that you were planning on using add/drop immediately so that this is something that actually matters?


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32326



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PostPosted: 05/07/19 2:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Mojo mentioned to me that he can't wait to drop Griner so he can pick up Jessica Davenport just in case she makes a comeback in the league...so it's clearly a legitimate concern. Personally I kinda always liked Kraayeveld so we're debating on that aspect...which one do you all think is more likely to have a great season?



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Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 10454
Location: Tiburon, CA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 2:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYSports56 wrote:
I'm sorry, did you say that you were planning on using add/drop immediately so that this is something that actually matters?




Yes. Idea



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2002 WNBA Virtual GM Overall Winner
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NYSports56



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1126
Location: New Jersey, USA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 3:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
NYSports56 wrote:
I'm sorry, did you say that you were planning on using add/drop immediately so that this is something that actually matters?




Yes. Idea

You actually didn't say that. But if that's true, you definitely have a legitimate concern. If not, you have burned up a whole lot of good will insisting we do it this way. I wonder which of your 9 picks you are planning on dropping for a player, particularly since you have a 10th pick to go? I guess we'll see.

So, OK, this is how we'll do it, even though since things are being done here by hand it becomes cumbersome.

Waivers begin at 6 PM EDT (GMT - 4) after mojo/myrtle's final pick. If the final pick is after 5 PM, we'll go to 6 PM the following day so that people have enough notice.

6 PM is being chosen for this (and other things) because the league spans 8 time zones. That's 11 PM for Erimus, which may be too late, so if this is the case (speak up, Erimus), we'll move the time backwards.

Anyway, people should put in their claims in before 6 PM so that they are eligible to receive a player. I guess if you don't want anyone to know your big secret, you've got to post as close to 6 PM as possible so that nobody copies your idea. If two people do try to claim the same player, the player will be assigned randomly.

Admiral, if the player you're planning to claim gets selected, please let us know so that we don't have to go through all this. I am thinking that no one else cares about this (if I'm wrong, please let me know).


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22470
Location: NJ


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 4:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 selects Sami Whitcomb, G, Seattle Storm.



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Mojo



Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 233
Location: Texas


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 4:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Concerning Mojo/Myrtle having the last draft pick and then being able to immediately drop/add before anyone knows what has happened. Theoretically, this could happen; practically, it won't happen because of having just made the last pick. Also involved would be if a player on the Mojo/Myrtle roster was announced as out for the year, then an immediate transaction could happen, but as already stated, the pool to pick from is a bunch of players that have already dropped below the drafted line. I will volunteer to post exactly when the last draft pick is to be made, notifying several hours ahead of time so that all have equal opportunity to make an immediate transaction. Or to have a 24 hour time period between the last draft pick and first transaction would seem to be consistent with our having 24 hours to draft a player. Speaking on behalf of the Mojo/Myrtle franchise, I will encourage a 24 hour time period between end of draft and open transaction period be instated as a rule. I consider it somewhat necessary to tidy up a loose end.


Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 10454
Location: Tiburon, CA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 5:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I remember doing a 10-team fantasy-roto draft game by hand several years ago. Nobody thought it was necessary to establish any rules because everybody was chummy.

3 weeks before the end of the season, there was a near 4-way tie for 1st. Then one team started streaming players. The commissioner made no rules against it before the season, so it was technically legal and he therefore allowed it. Unlimited transactions. Soon, the other 3 teams started streaming players as well.

This then became a problem because these 4 teams tried to stream the same players. There then became a question as to when you can add/drop a player and still receive points.

ESPN rules state that you need to wait until the first game of the day starts before you can add/drop a player to still get credit for their fantasy points. So, for example, if there are 2 games on Tuesday, one at 5pm and one at 7pm, you have to wait until 5:01pm to drop your 5pm and 7pm player for players that play on Wednesday.

However, the commissioner decided to go against ESPN standard rules and said that you have to wait until the end of the game before you drop a player in order to still receive points. So if that 5pm game ended at 6:45, that's when you're allowed to do an add/drop.

No surprise, there were teams that tried to jump the gun, doing their add/drops at 6:44 to beat other teams to the Wednesday players. And since the exact time that end of the game occurred is generally not recorded, they got away with it. People complained, but the commissioner allowed the early adds to stand because he couldn't determine when exactly the game ended.

However, he responded by limiting add/drops to 2 per week to end the streaming, unilateral decision, effective immediately. People then complained again, because some teams were able to take advantage of the temporary lack of rules more than others. Moreover, none of the 10 teams liked the fact that rules were changed mid-season. So, he reversed his decision and allowed the streaming to restart.


In short, establishing the rules beforehand is ideal, and using ESPN as a template, rather than just playing it by ear and making it up as we go along, because presumably 'nobody cares'. Nobody thought people cared about the lack of streaming rules during that season either. Eventually they did though. For our league, we did our lottery draft and our actual draft before we even had the full 10 teams, which was very odd. Not the way I would have done it, but it is what it is.


    <iframe width="320" height="240" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_8g_JidtNCo?start=56" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    I think we should take a break for 5 minutes.. Tempers seem to be running a little... high. Idea



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Mojo



Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 233
Location: Texas


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 5:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I will hope that any rule tweaks are taken care of before the season begins because a "make it up as you go league" can be frustrating to be a part of. I hesitated to make a suggestion for a rule addendum but felt it would be for the betterment of the league. Since my team is the team involved concerning the end of draft/start transactions time period, I will offer that this situation in question might benefit from a "fair rule" addition. I felt that a suggestion coming from me would be appropriate


Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 10454
Location: Tiburon, CA


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 5:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mojo wrote:
I will hope that any rule tweaks are taken care of before the season begins because a "make it up as you go league" can be frustrating to be a part of. I hesitated to make a suggestion for a rule addendum but felt it would be for the betterment of the league. Since my team is the team involved concerning the end of draft/start transactions time period, I will offer that this situation in question might benefit from a "fair rule" addition. I felt that a suggestion coming from me would be appropriate




Indeed... Imagine what would have happened if we decided mid-season that the tiebreaker for waiver claims was to be changed from a random die roll to lowest total points (ESPN rules), and the person advocating for the change just happened to have the lowest total points. I don't think that would have sat well with others.

So, I spoke up about changing the tiebreaker earlier. I had other concerns, but the draft had already started. In short, let's not hesitate to make suggestions and let's avoid taking suggestions personally.



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Mojo



Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 233
Location: Texas


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 6:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
I remember doing a 10-team fantasy-roto draft game by hand several years ago. Nobody thought it was necessary to establish any rules because everybody was chummy.

3 weeks before the end of the season, there was a near 4-way tie for 1st. Then one team started streaming players. The commissioner made no rules against it before the season, so it was technically legal and he therefore allowed it. Unlimited transactions. Soon, the other 3 teams started streaming players as well.

This then became a problem because these 4 teams tried to stream the same players. There then became a question as to when you can add/drop a player and still receive points.

ESPN rules state that you need to wait until the first game of the day starts before you can add/drop a player to still get credit for their fantasy points. So, for example, if there are 2 games on Tuesday, one at 5pm and one at 7pm, you have to wait until 5:01pm to drop your 5pm and 7pm player for players that play on Wednesday.

However, the commissioner decided to go against ESPN standard rules and said that you have to wait until the end of the game before you drop a player in order to still receive points. So if that 5pm game ended at 6:45, that's when you're allowed to do an add/drop.

No surprise, there were teams that tried to jump the gun, doing their add/drops at 6:44 to beat other teams to the Wednesday players. And since the exact time that end of the game occurred is generally not recorded, they got away with it. People complained, but the commissioner allowed the early adds to stand because he couldn't determine when exactly the game ended.

However, he responded by limiting add/drops to 2 per week to end the streaming, unilateral decision, effective immediately. People then complained again, because some teams were able to take advantage of the temporary lack of rules more than others. Moreover, none of the 10 teams liked the fact that rules were changed mid-season. So, he reversed his decision and allowed the streaming to restart.


In short, establishing the rules beforehand is ideal, and using ESPN as a template, rather than just playing it by ear and making it up as we go along, because presumably 'nobody cares'. Nobody thought people cared about the lack of streaming rules during that season either. Eventually they did though. For our league, we did our lottery draft and our actual draft before we even had the full 10 teams, which was very odd. Not the way I would have done it, but it is what it is.


    <iframe width="320" height="240" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_8g_JidtNCo?start=56" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    I think we should take a break for 5 minutes.. Tempers seem to be running a little... high. Idea


In response to this. I have been commissioner of a league before and know it comes with headaches of dealing with suggestions for rule changes when rule-related problems arise. I am just happy that someone decided to start a Rebkell league and applaud NYSports for taking on the responsibility. I believe NYSports has at times tried to include us all in decision making. Sometimes he makes posts that no one responds to and when there is no response, admirably assumes his role to continue with commissioner decisions. He has spent a lot of time creating rules and roster lists and schedules. He is put in a position of overruling one idea in favor of another. I spoke out that we started the draft way too early but NYSports chose another line of reasoning. I brought to attention that using ESPN for player positions next year had its drawbacks for me to be able to participate because ESPN player rosters are not available for cellphones and how it could affect the draft flow, but no response from that post from other teams, so what is to be assumed? Adding teams after the draft started is the oddest rule I have ever heard of, but it happened. It left a loophole. I will address those issues again for next year, if we do this again. NYSports and I do not see eye to eye on several things, but I will offer support that decisions will be made for betterment of the league. Admiral, your post deserves attention, you have a point that is valid and if not taken care of will possibly cause problems later. My response is due to the fact, when people voce concerns and there is no response, then what is assumed? But my concern is also the fine line between the league having already drafted players and rules are still being changed.


Mojo



Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 233
Location: Texas


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 6:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYSports56 wrote:
Admiral_Needa wrote:
ESPN puts every player on waivers after the draft for a reason. Why go out of our way to go against that? Question Idea

Because I don't like waiver wire priorities and the complexities that come with them when running a league by hand. Also, your opinion of what is "standard" when it comes to fantasy leagues is only that: an opinion.

I also have opinions about how things should be run when it comes to leagues. Some of them may differ from yours. That's OK, but if you're not actually planning on using add/drop at the first opportunity, please spare the fake outrage that we're not doing things like ESPN. I solicited feedback on 90% of the decisions I made in this league, including this one. If you need a specified time, we'll give you one, but not unless you're really going to pick a player. If you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, I will soon learn to ignore you. Your criticism tends to border on ridicule, and it's not exactly pleasant to respond to.


Admiral has some valid points to be addressed. His approach and ideas may not be what you want to hear, but they are for the most part valid points. I will hope that you are not going to ignore others suggestions/complaints if they disagree with you, as you have just implied.




Last edited by Mojo on 05/07/19 6:43 am; edited 2 times in total
Mojo



Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 233
Location: Texas


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 6:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
NYSports56 wrote:
I'm sorry, did you say that you were planning on using add/drop immediately so that this is something that actually matters?




Yes. Idea


I have suggested a solution. There is a scenario where it could be to my advantage if not addressed. I have volunteered to let teams know when my last pick will be or that a rule addendum is ok with me.


Mojo



Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 233
Location: Texas


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 6:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYSports56 wrote:
Admiral_Needa wrote:
NYSports56 wrote:
I'm sorry, did you say that you were planning on using add/drop immediately so that this is something that actually matters?




Yes. Idea

You actually didn't say that. But if that's true, you definitely have a legitimate concern. If not, you have burned up a whole lot of good will insisting we do it this way. I wonder which of your 9 picks you are planning on dropping for a player, particularly since you have a 10th pick to go? I guess we'll see.

So, OK, this is how we'll do it, even though since things are being done here by hand it becomes cumbersome.

Waivers begin at 6 PM EDT (GMT - 4) after mojo/myrtle's final pick. If the final pick is after 5 PM, we'll go to 6 PM the following day so that people have enough notice.

6 PM is being chosen for this (and other things) because the league spans 8 time zones. That's 11 PM for Erimus, which may be too late, so if this is the case (speak up, Erimus), we'll move the time backwards.

Anyway, people should put in their claims in before 6 PM so that they are eligible to receive a player. I guess if you don't want anyone to know your big secret, you've got to post as close to 6 PM as possible so that nobody copies your idea. If two people do try to claim the same player, the player will be assigned randomly.

Admiral, if the player you're planning to claim gets selected, please let us know so that we don't have to go through all this. I am thinking that no one else cares about this (if I'm wrong, please let me know).


I do care about this. The conversation involves my position of making the last draft pick. There is a scenario that would be like me being awarded an extra pick before anyone else could pick. The "after 5pm" part of this post leaves a possibility of 61 minutes for someone to check in to see if the final draft has been made. Suggesting 24 hours after final draft.


hoopmom



Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 141
Location: Atlanta


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 9:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hi, i’m not very confident with some of my picks, so I might want to take someone off waivers. Or not.

I really appreciate all the passion and enthusiasm for WNBA and I’m happy to follow whatever process you want. I do have a hard time following the action with all the back and forth, so thanks for keeping page 1 updated with the draft and rules.

Thanks for doing this, I usually feel like the only person who watches women’s basketball!


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