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CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 761
Location: PA


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PostPosted: 04/01/19 1:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:


I'd be surprised if ND is a #1 next year (hopefully they can hang on to a #2 or #3). I'd also be surprised, where ever they are seeded next year, if they are sent anywhere but FW.

I do agree that a 1 having to play on a 2's 'home' court is worse than 1's having a 'home' court. But not by much.


Keep in mind that prior to ND's ACCT win over Louisville, the projections were ND playing in Portland, so I wouldn't be so sure.

I heard one theory about why they treat ND differently in this regard. Unlike many other schools, ND has built up a national fan base (I'm talking long time history here, going back to the 1920s), so the committee might figure that sending ND farther away won't affect their attendance it would for other teams.

And of course, attendance is the only thing that matters here.


CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 761
Location: PA


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PostPosted: 04/01/19 1:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
These sites are decided so far in advance, it's hard for me to understand how anyone thinks these were set up to achieve results.

If you don't like where the games are being hosted - then fine, bid.

Also, as many have mentioned, yesterday's results were so close and the top 8 have been so close this year that seeds didn't really matter. It's just one more thing for people to complain about...


Yeah, let's look at where UConn has gone (and where the east regionals were when they didn't go there). Notice a pattern starting in 2012?

1989: Bowling Green, KY (Lost in the 1st round)
1990: Norfolk, VA(Lost in 2nd round (after 1st round bye))
1991: Philadelphia, PA
1992: Charlottesville, VA (lost in the 2nd round)
1993: Iowa City, IA (lost in 1st round) (Richmond, VA was "east")
1994: Piscataway, NJ
1995: Storrs, CT
1996: Rosemont, IL (Charlottesville, VA was "east")
1997: Iowa City, IA (Columbia, SC was "east")
1998: Dayton, OH
1999: Cincinnati,OH (Greensboro, NC was "east")
2000: Richmond, VA
2001: Pittsburgh, PA
2002: Milwaukee, WI (Raleigh, NC was "east")
2003: Dayton, OH
2004: Hartford, CT
2005: Kansas City, MO (Philadelphia was "east")
2006: Bridgeport, CT
2007: Fresno, CA (Greensboro, NC was "east")
2008: Greensboro, NC
2009: Trenton, NJ
2010: Dayton, OH
2011: Philadelphia, PA

2012: Kingston, RI
2013: Bridgeport, CT
2014: Lincoln, NE (regionals were at campus locations and the other 3 were top 3 seeds)
2015: Bridgeport, CT
2016: Bridgeport, CT
2017: Bridgeport, CT
2018: Albany, NY
2019: Albany, NY

Future sites:
2020: Closest will be Greenville, SC
2021: Albany, NY
2022: Bridgeport, CT


CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 761
Location: PA


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PostPosted: 04/01/19 1:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:

Also, as many have mentioned, yesterday's results were so close and the top 8 have been so close this year that seeds didn't really matter. It's just one more thing for people to complain about...


They were close. So close you might argue that "home court" (are close to it) could be a factor...


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 1:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd like to see the Sweet 16 and up have two permanent sort of neutral sites, alternating between a sort of mid-east (somewhere like Cincinnati or Pittsburgh) and a mid west of the Mississippi, maybe somewhere like Salt Lake City or even Las Vegas.The first two rounds would continue as they are now, but all Sweet 16 and up games would be played at the permanent sites, and those would alternate between the eastern and western sites from year to year.

Just one solution.



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Last edited by summertime blues on 04/01/19 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 761
Location: PA


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PostPosted: 04/01/19 2:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:


Twice you have called this a home court advantage when in fact that is simply not true and a gross exaggeration of what home court is. And I would take you more seriously if you had posted a diatribe against Notre Dame the year they hosted a regional on campus while many other top teams refused and cited their distaste for competitive dis-advantage as the reason.
But from memory every Irish fan defended it.

And for the record I favor a single site regional. My pick is Vegas but any place as long as it's at least 1000 miles from South Bend. Very Happy


And Geno attacked it despite the fact that it was sandwiched between these regionals that were practically home games for UConn:

2012: Kingston, RI
2013: Bridgeport, CT

2015: Bridgeport, CT
2016: Bridgeport, CT
2017: Bridgeport, CT


The year it was at ND was a one year temporary situation while the NCAA was changing over the format.

UConn never had a situation where they hosted a regional, right? So where was the regional UConn played in for their first NC in 1995...? Wink

Yeah, Geno should talk...


willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 616
Location: NorCal


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PostPosted: 04/01/19 2:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
Looking ahead:

2020 Regional Sites (schools that could have 'home' games)

Fort Wayne, IN (ND, IU?)
Portland, OR (Oregon, ORST)
Dallas, TX (Baylor, A&M)
Greenville, SC (SC)

2020 Finals
New Orleans, LA



2021 Regional Sites

Spokane, WA (I'm not sure who will be good in two years that this could be a home court for)
Albany, NY (UConn)
Cincinnati, OH (Louisville)
Austin, TX (Baylor, A&M)

2021 Finals
San Antonio, TX (Baylor, A&M)


I don't have a problem with the #1 seed playing close to home. But #2s or lower should automatically be sent to another region rather than be gifted a home court advantage over higher seeded teams. It's grossly unfair. And I don't give a damn about ticket sales. Run a bona fide, serious, fair competition and you'll sell plenty of tickets.


Twice you have called this a home court advantage when in fact that is simply not true and a gross exaggeration of what home court is. And I would take you more seriously if you had posted a diatribe against Notre Dame the year they hosted a regional on campus while many other top teams refused and cited their distaste for competitive dis-advantage as the reason.
But from memory every Irish fan defended it.

And for the record I favor a single site regional. My pick is Vegas but any place as long as it's at least 1000 miles from South Bend. Very Happy
I actually remember his response to ND hosting the regional on campus. His response was that every other team could have applied.

I suspect that Art might be upset that with the elimination of Louisville there is only ND left to potentially carry the ACC banner into the final four. The other teams in the ACC did not do as well as predicted so they needed more teams in the final four to save some face. While he is a ND guy how the ACC does certainly impacts ND. As it also does with other teams in respect to how well their league does.

Ultimately Louisville lost because they got subpar ( for her ) production from Durr this weekend. She also didn't shoot well against Oregon St, but didn't shoot well either. We always knew going into this tournament that the top teams were so close that the ones that got hot probably would win. Conversely those that went cold would lose. The deciding factor this week had more to do with the previous factors than the place they played at. The idea that the extra fans one team had made such a difference is total rational. Referees blown calls have more of an effect than fan support.



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bullsky



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 20260



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 2:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
bullsky wrote:
These sites are decided so far in advance, it's hard for me to understand how anyone thinks these were set up to achieve results.

If you don't like where the games are being hosted - then fine, bid.

Also, as many have mentioned, yesterday's results were so close and the top 8 have been so close this year that seeds didn't really matter. It's just one more thing for people to complain about...


Yeah, let's look at where UConn has gone (and where the east regionals were when they didn't go there). Notice a pattern starting in 2012?

1989: Bowling Green, KY (Lost in the 1st round)
1990: Norfolk, VA(Lost in 2nd round (after 1st round bye))
1991: Philadelphia, PA
1992: Charlottesville, VA (lost in the 2nd round)
1993: Iowa City, IA (lost in 1st round) (Richmond, VA was "east")
1994: Piscataway, NJ
1995: Storrs, CT
1996: Rosemont, IL (Charlottesville, VA was "east")
1997: Iowa City, IA (Columbia, SC was "east")
1998: Dayton, OH
1999: Cincinnati,OH (Greensboro, NC was "east")
2000: Richmond, VA
2001: Pittsburgh, PA
2002: Milwaukee, WI (Raleigh, NC was "east")
2003: Dayton, OH
2004: Hartford, CT
2005: Kansas City, MO (Philadelphia was "east")
2006: Bridgeport, CT
2007: Fresno, CA (Greensboro, NC was "east")
2008: Greensboro, NC
2009: Trenton, NJ
2010: Dayton, OH
2011: Philadelphia, PA

2012: Kingston, RI
2013: Bridgeport, CT
2014: Lincoln, NE (regionals were at campus locations and the other 3 were top 3 seeds)
2015: Bridgeport, CT
2016: Bridgeport, CT
2017: Bridgeport, CT
2018: Albany, NY
2019: Albany, NY

Future sites:
2020: Closest will be Greenville, SC
2021: Albany, NY
2022: Bridgeport, CT


Then get mad at Bridgeport and Albany for submitting bids...

Again, it is my understanding that colleges/conferences can submit bids to host and they are selected by a committee. Why can't Jackson MS host? Or lets send them east to Birmingham AL. Hell, lets send them north to Memphis?

Also, what would you rather have had: the closest location to your school, but against the toughest team (Baylor) or elsewhere against the fifth best team?

The best teams in the countries often beat tough teams on the road. Now, because it's March, we think it's an issue?

I know people are jumping on Debbie A's Las Vegas idea, but I think that idea limits the exposure of our game. Just like when the Washington Mystics announced they wanted to build an arena that holds 3,000 people. Keep it the same. If you want to host, submit the bid. Some areas of the country invest more in women's sports than others - point blank period.



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ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 9508



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 2:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So if you were in Bridgeport and UConn was likely to host, would you submit a strong bid?

If you were in Salt Lake City, and the closest likely host would be Stanford, would you submit a strong bid?



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11597
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 04/01/19 2:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
bullsky wrote:
These sites are decided so far in advance, it's hard for me to understand how anyone thinks these were set up to achieve results.

If you don't like where the games are being hosted - then fine, bid.

Also, as many have mentioned, yesterday's results were so close and the top 8 have been so close this year that seeds didn't really matter. It's just one more thing for people to complain about...


Yeah, let's look at where UConn has gone (and where the east regionals were when they didn't go there). Notice a pattern starting in 2012?

1989: Bowling Green, KY (Lost in the 1st round)
1990: Norfolk, VA(Lost in 2nd round (after 1st round bye))
1991: Philadelphia, PA
1992: Charlottesville, VA (lost in the 2nd round)
1993: Iowa City, IA (lost in 1st round) (Richmond, VA was "east")
1994: Piscataway, NJ
1995: Storrs, CT
1996: Rosemont, IL (Charlottesville, VA was "east")
1997: Iowa City, IA (Columbia, SC was "east")
1998: Dayton, OH
1999: Cincinnati,OH (Greensboro, NC was "east")
2000: Richmond, VA
2001: Pittsburgh, PA
2002: Milwaukee, WI (Raleigh, NC was "east")
2003: Dayton, OH
2004: Hartford, CT
2005: Kansas City, MO (Philadelphia was "east")
2006: Bridgeport, CT
2007: Fresno, CA (Greensboro, NC was "east")
2008: Greensboro, NC
2009: Trenton, NJ
2010: Dayton, OH
2011: Philadelphia, PA

2012: Kingston, RI
2013: Bridgeport, CT
2014: Lincoln, NE (regionals were at campus locations and the other 3 were top 3 seeds)
2015: Bridgeport, CT
2016: Bridgeport, CT
2017: Bridgeport, CT
2018: Albany, NY
2019: Albany, NY

Future sites:
2020: Closest will be Greenville, SC
2021: Albany, NY
2022: Bridgeport, CT


I notice a pattern. Unless the year ended in CT losing in the 1st or 2nd rd, you failed to include the finish. Allow me:


1991-Semifinalist
1994-Elite 8
1995-National Champion
1996-Semifinalist
1997-Elite 8
1998-Elite 8
1999-Sweet 16
2000-National Champion
2001-Semifinalist
2002-National Champion
2003-National Champion
2004-National Champion
2005-Sweet 16
2006-Elite 8
2007-Elite 8
2008-Semifinalist
2009-National Champion
2010-National Champion
2011-Semifinalist
2012-Semifinalist
2013-National Champion
2014-National Champion
2015-National Champion
2016-National Champion
2017-Semifinalist
2018-Semifinalist
2019-



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 58492
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 04/01/19 2:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
So if you were in Bridgeport and UConn was likely to host, would you submit a strong bid?

If you were in Salt Lake City, and the closest likely host would be Stanford, would you submit a strong bid?


Given how weakly Stanford draws, I wouldn't bid based on their fan base if I was in San Francisco.



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SDHoops



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 823



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 3:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
SDHoops wrote:
AB23 and WNBA09/her alter ego just hate UConn. GO Huskies! Your predictions of UConn losing as early as second round were WRONG!


Correct i did predict they would lose . You think their going to win the title ? Laughing

How did you and your Connecticut Sun handle get unbanned?


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 11809
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 04/01/19 4:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
These sites are decided so far in advance, it's hard for me to understand how anyone thinks these were set up to achieve results.
If you don't like where the games are being hosted - then fine, bid.

Also, as many have mentioned, yesterday's results were so close and the top 8 have been so close this year that seeds didn't really matter. It's just one more thing for people to complain about...


B.I.N.G.O. Cool



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Davis4632



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 492



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 4:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
bullsky wrote:
These sites are decided so far in advance, it's hard for me to understand how anyone thinks these were set up to achieve results.

If you don't like where the games are being hosted - then fine, bid.

Also, as many have mentioned, yesterday's results were so close and the top 8 have been so close this year that seeds didn't really matter. It's just one more thing for people to complain about...


Yeah, let's look at where UConn has gone (and where the east regionals were when they didn't go there). Notice a pattern starting in 2012?

1989: Bowling Green, KY (Lost in the 1st round)
1990: Norfolk, VA(Lost in 2nd round (after 1st round bye))
1991: Philadelphia, PA
1992: Charlottesville, VA (lost in the 2nd round)
1993: Iowa City, IA (lost in 1st round) (Richmond, VA was "east")
1994: Piscataway, NJ
1995: Storrs, CT
1996: Rosemont, IL (Charlottesville, VA was "east")
1997: Iowa City, IA (Columbia, SC was "east")
1998: Dayton, OH
1999: Cincinnati,OH (Greensboro, NC was "east")
2000: Richmond, VA
2001: Pittsburgh, PA
2002: Milwaukee, WI (Raleigh, NC was "east")
2003: Dayton, OH
2004: Hartford, CT
2005: Kansas City, MO (Philadelphia was "east")
2006: Bridgeport, CT
2007: Fresno, CA (Greensboro, NC was "east")
2008: Greensboro, NC
2009: Trenton, NJ
2010: Dayton, OH
2011: Philadelphia, PA

2012: Kingston, RI
2013: Bridgeport, CT
2014: Lincoln, NE (regionals were at campus locations and the other 3 were top 3 seeds)
2015: Bridgeport, CT
2016: Bridgeport, CT
2017: Bridgeport, CT
2018: Albany, NY
2019: Albany, NY

Future sites:
2020: Closest will be Greenville, SC
2021: Albany, NY
2022: Bridgeport, CT


Then get mad at Bridgeport and Albany for submitting bids...

Again, it is my understanding that colleges/conferences can submit bids to host and they are selected by a committee. Why can't Jackson MS host? Or lets send them east to Birmingham AL. Hell, lets send them north to Memphis?

Also, what would you rather have had: the closest location to your school, but against the toughest team (Baylor) or elsewhere against the fifth best team?

The best teams in the countries often beat tough teams on the road. Now, because it's March, we think it's an issue?

I know people are jumping on Debbie A's Las Vegas idea,but I think that idea limits the exposure of our game. Just like when the Washington Mystics announced they wanted to build an arena that holds 3,000 people. Keep it the same. If you want to host, submit the bid. Some areas of the country invest more in women's sports than others - point blank period.

It's still limited the way doing thingse the way it's being currently done. WBB has always been its own worse enemy though.


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 8121
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 04/01/19 4:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SDHoops wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
SDHoops wrote:
AB23 and WNBA09/her alter ego just hate UConn. GO Huskies! Your predictions of UConn losing as early as second round were WRONG!


Correct i did predict they would lose . You think their going to win the title ? Laughing

How did you and your Connecticut Sun handle get unbanned?



You've totally lost me here ? Sorry unbanned ? Connecticut Sun ? You may have me pegged for another poster . I noticed you said AB23 and alter ego which was strange on its own but im a Dallas Wings Fan and ive never been banned thanks.



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Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 5546



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PostPosted: 04/02/19 9:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Three of the four teams in this year's finals got huge boosts from having 'home' crowds.

And who knows what would have happened if the fourth regional had been played in Des Moines.

I don't know the answer. I'm pretty sure that it isn't Vegas. That is a huge time commitment for people.



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 13306



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PostPosted: 04/02/19 9:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

acsuc99 wrote:
TotalCardinalMove wrote:
Isn’t your favorite team essentially getting a “home” game against Stanford tonight?



Yup.


Was my favorite team the 1 seed? Oh yeeeeeah.....

Were they gifted an advantage over a higher seeded team? No, you say?

So, your point is what exactly?


Speebs56



Joined: 19 Aug 2015
Posts: 105
Location: Orange county, CA


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PostPosted: 04/02/19 11:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Along with bids submitted, doesn't it stand to reason that the location and accommodations available also are factors? I chuckled at suggestion of Jackson, MS (I lived in MS for 17 years), only due to the fact that there are no adequate basketball facilities to accommodate a regional game, and I'm not sure of sufficient rooms for teams and fans.

Also lived in Memphis - that is a much more sensible site, if you want to go midsouth. FedEx Forum is a terrific arena, and the area has lots for fans to enjoy.


ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 1453
Location: New York


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PostPosted: 04/02/19 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Art, will you feel differently if Young declares, you lose your entire starting 5, get a #2 seed, and are still in Fort Wayne even if the S-curve says they shouldn't be?


TotalCardinalMove



Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 1153



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PostPosted: 04/02/19 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
acsuc99 wrote:
TotalCardinalMove wrote:
Isn’t your favorite team essentially getting a “home” game against Stanford tonight?



Yup.


Was my favorite team the 1 seed? Oh yeeeeeah.....

Were they gifted an advantage over a higher seeded team? No, you say?

So, your point is what exactly?


That maybe, just maybe your favorite team was gifted a 1 seed based on location. Let’s not pretend Irish fans weren’t crying over the fact Notre Dame had the potential to be placed outside of Chicago. Stanford won the best conference in the country, and defeated two of the teams in the Final Four this season.

For the most part, all of the Pac-12 schools in the tournament were under seeded. That was largely due to the committee formulating the brackets based on location. So, if UConn and Oregon shouldn’t have been in Albany and Portland, then maybe your beloved Irish should’ve been slotted in Greensboro.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 13306



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PostPosted: 04/04/19 4:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:


For the most part, all of the Pac-12 schools in the tournament were under seeded. That was largely due to the committee formulating the brackets based on location. So, if UConn and Oregon shouldn’t have been in Albany and Portland, then maybe your beloved Irish should’ve been slotted in Greensboro.


Now there's an objective take on things. Laughing

It was common knowledge that the winner of the ND-Louisville ACC Title game would get the Chicago slot, so ND went out and kicked Louisville's ass.

"the committee formulating the brackets based on location" Yeah, that must explain Miss St in Oregon and Louisville in upstate New York and Baylor on the East Coast. I bet you can find a map of the US on the internet if you try.

Give us some actual examples of who was "underseeded," who they should have been seeded over, and why.

I hope you're not seriously suggesting Stanford should have been a 1 seed. That would be laughable even among the other fantasies in your post.


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 5546



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PostPosted: 04/04/19 6:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
TotalCardinalMove wrote:


For the most part, all of the Pac-12 schools in the tournament were under seeded. That was largely due to the committee formulating the brackets based on location. So, if UConn and Oregon shouldn’t have been in Albany and Portland, then maybe your beloved Irish should’ve been slotted in Greensboro.


Now there's an objective take on things. Laughing

It was common knowledge that the winner of the ND-Louisville ACC Title game would get the Chicago slot, so ND went out and kicked Louisville's ass.

"the committee formulating the brackets based on location" Yeah, that must explain Miss St in Oregon and Louisville in upstate New York and Baylor on the East Coast. I bet you can find a map of the US on the internet if you try.

Give us some actual examples of who was "underseeded," who they should have been seeded over, and why.

I hope you're not seriously suggesting Stanford should have been a 1 seed. That would be laughable even among the other fantasies in your post.


I'm not sure that the committee saw it that way. They wanted that arena full of green!!

I'm thinking that the committee was doing a lot of hoping and praying and secret dances that ND would win that game so that they weren't put in the position of coming up with a way to keep ND in Chicago.



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"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
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