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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/31/19 2:58 pm    ::: Does anyone need any more proof Reply Reply with quote

than today's two games of what a completely shameful fraud is this NCAA WBB bullshit of forcing number 1 seeds to play regional finals on essentially a home court of the number 2 team?

What a total disgrace.

Anyone actually believe these two games would have played out the same if played in, say, Lexington or Indianapolis and New Orleans or Mobile? If you do, you must be looking forward to the Easter Bunny's arrival in three weeks.

If the people who run WBB took the actual competition seriously, maybe the general public would take it more seriously too.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 03/31/19 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

+1



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toad455



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PostPosted: 03/31/19 3:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

100%!



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 03/31/19 3:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Looking ahead:

2020 Regional Sites (schools that could have 'home' games)

Fort Wayne, IN (ND, IU?)
Portland, OR (Oregon, ORST)
Dallas, TX (Baylor, A&M)
Greenville, SC (SC)

2020 Finals
New Orleans, LA



2021 Regional Sites

Spokane, WA (I'm not sure who will be good in two years that this could be a home court for)
Albany, NY (UConn)
Cincinnati, OH (Louisville)
Austin, TX (Baylor, A&M)

2021 Finals
San Antonio, TX (Baylor, A&M)



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/31/19 4:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Looking ahead:

2020 Regional Sites (schools that could have 'home' games)

Fort Wayne, IN (ND, IU?)
Portland, OR (Oregon, ORST)
Dallas, TX (Baylor, A&M)
Greenville, SC (SC)

2020 Finals
New Orleans, LA



2021 Regional Sites

Spokane, WA (I'm not sure who will be good in two years that this could be a home court for)
Albany, NY (UConn)
Cincinnati, OH (Louisville)
Austin, TX (Baylor, A&M)

2021 Finals
San Antonio, TX (Baylor, A&M)


I don't have a problem with the #1 seed playing close to home. But #2s or lower should automatically be sent to another region rather than be gifted a home court advantage over higher seeded teams. It's grossly unfair. And I don't give a damn about ticket sales. Run a bona fide, serious, fair competition and you'll sell plenty of tickets.


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 03/31/19 4:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
Looking ahead:

2020 Regional Sites (schools that could have 'home' games)

Fort Wayne, IN (ND, IU?)
Portland, OR (Oregon, ORST)
Dallas, TX (Baylor, A&M)
Greenville, SC (SC)

2020 Finals
New Orleans, LA



2021 Regional Sites

Spokane, WA (I'm not sure who will be good in two years that this could be a home court for)
Albany, NY (UConn)
Cincinnati, OH (Louisville)
Austin, TX (Baylor, A&M)

2021 Finals
San Antonio, TX (Baylor, A&M)


I don't have a problem with the #1 seed playing close to home. But #2s or lower should automatically be sent to another region rather than be gifted a home court advantage over higher seeded teams. It's grossly unfair. And I don't give a damn about ticket sales. Run a bona fide, serious, fair competition and you'll sell plenty of tickets.


I think it takes away competitiveness for 2's, 3's, and 4's to have to go to a #1's 'home' court. I think that it takes away from having upsets, which is what we really want. I mean, there's a reason that the men don't give the 1 seeds in their tourney a 5-6 lead to start the game.

I'd be surprised if ND is a #1 next year (hopefully they can hang on to a #2 or #3). I'd also be surprised, where ever they are seeded next year, if they are sent anywhere but FW.

I do agree that a 1 having to play on a 2's 'home' court is worse than 1's having a 'home' court. But not by much.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 03/31/19 5:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would (maybe) feel more strongly about it if I didn't think that either of these #2 seeds could really have been #1 seeds. If Baylor were playing in Iowa City, or Notre Dame in San Jose, that might be another matter. But how do you predict at the beginning of the year who is going to be the #1's. And there is no place in the US that is truly a neutral site. Las Vegas favors West Coast teams. Any place in the so-called MidWest (we call it the MidEast) favors the B1G or ND or Big East. Anyplace on the East Coast favors SEC/ACC teams. The NE is obvious. Texas is obvious. If Miami or FSU had gotten to the F4, they would have been favored with Tampa. They all favor somebody. And if you really want to be closest to home, just be one of the top 2 -#1s. This year the SEC was the weakest it has ever been. They won't have anybody in the Final Four. It is what it is. To me, it is just useless whining to complain about it.

Also, what constitutes 'home court'. It's not like UConn plays at Albany, or the Ducks in Portland, so the court and rims themselves are just as foreign to them. To me, having fans there is 'nice' but it shouldn't be a determining factor.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/31/19 7:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I would (maybe) feel more strongly about it if I didn't think that either of these #2 seeds could really have been #1 seeds. If Baylor were playing in Iowa City, or Notre Dame in San Jose, that might be another matter. But how do you predict at the beginning of the year who is going to be the #1's. And there is no place in the US that is truly a neutral site. Las Vegas favors West Coast teams. Any place in the so-called MidWest (we call it the MidEast) favors the B1G or ND or Big East. Anyplace on the East Coast favors SEC/ACC teams. The NE is obvious. Texas is obvious. If Miami or FSU had gotten to the F4, they would have been favored with Tampa. They all favor somebody. And if you really want to be closest to home, just be one of the top 2 -#1s. This year the SEC was the weakest it has ever been. They won't have anybody in the Final Four. It is what it is. To me, it is just useless whining to complain about it.

Also, what constitutes 'home court'. It's not like UConn plays at Albany, or the Ducks in Portland, so the court and rims themselves are just as foreign to them. To me, having fans there is 'nice' but it shouldn't be a determining factor.


All they had to do was swap UConn and Oregon's regions on Selection Day. Really simple to fix.


calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 03/31/19 8:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I would (maybe) feel more strongly about it if I didn't think that either of these #2 seeds could really have been #1 seeds. If Baylor were playing in Iowa City, or Notre Dame in San Jose, that might be another matter. But how do you predict at the beginning of the year who is going to be the #1's. And there is no place in the US that is truly a neutral site. Las Vegas favors West Coast teams. Any place in the so-called MidWest (we call it the MidEast) favors the B1G or ND or Big East. Anyplace on the East Coast favors SEC/ACC teams. The NE is obvious. Texas is obvious. If Miami or FSU had gotten to the F4, they would have been favored with Tampa. They all favor somebody. And if you really want to be closest to home, just be one of the top 2 -#1s. This year the SEC was the weakest it has ever been. They won't have anybody in the Final Four. It is what it is. To me, it is just useless whining to complain about it.

Also, what constitutes 'home court'. It's not like UConn plays at Albany, or the Ducks in Portland, so the court and rims themselves are just as foreign to them. To me, having fans there is 'nice' but it shouldn't be a determining factor.


All they had to do was swap UConn and Oregon's regions on Selection Day. Really simple to fix.


That is no fix at all. You want empty stands; that is just one more reason that the NCAA and the institutions would have to subsidize women's basketball. Why not play the games in high school gyms with no fans allowed. Would that be fairer? How about requiring teams to not wear their own jerseys so the refs don't know which teams are supposed to get the calls.

We already have a system which gives incredible advantage to the top teams. If you really want to make things fair how about you have the higher (by number) seed host each game. I think it would be great to see Baylor playing at Abilene Christian, and then two days later have to play at Cal or North Carolina. And to make it more sporting give them the 9pm slot for the first round and the 11am slot for their second game.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/31/19 9:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I would (maybe) feel more strongly about it if I didn't think that either of these #2 seeds could really have been #1 seeds. If Baylor were playing in Iowa City, or Notre Dame in San Jose, that might be another matter. But how do you predict at the beginning of the year who is going to be the #1's. And there is no place in the US that is truly a neutral site. Las Vegas favors West Coast teams. Any place in the so-called MidWest (we call it the MidEast) favors the B1G or ND or Big East. Anyplace on the East Coast favors SEC/ACC teams. The NE is obvious. Texas is obvious. If Miami or FSU had gotten to the F4, they would have been favored with Tampa. They all favor somebody. And if you really want to be closest to home, just be one of the top 2 -#1s. This year the SEC was the weakest it has ever been. They won't have anybody in the Final Four. It is what it is. To me, it is just useless whining to complain about it.

Also, what constitutes 'home court'. It's not like UConn plays at Albany, or the Ducks in Portland, so the court and rims themselves are just as foreign to them. To me, having fans there is 'nice' but it shouldn't be a determining factor.


All they had to do was swap UConn and Oregon's regions on Selection Day. Really simple to fix.


That is no fix at all. You want empty stands; that is just one more reason that the NCAA and the institutions would have to subsidize women's basketball. Why not play the games in high school gyms with no fans allowed. Would that be fairer? How about requiring teams to not wear their own jerseys so the refs don't know which teams are supposed to get the calls.

We already have a system which gives incredible advantage to the top teams. If you really want to make things fair how about you have the higher (by number) seed host each game. I think it would be great to see Baylor playing at Abilene Christian, and then two days later have to play at Cal or North Carolina. And to make it more sporting give them the 9pm slot for the first round and the 11am slot for their second game.


This isn't the Globetrotters. The point is not to have big crowds watching phony games.

The competition is the ONLY thing that matters. I don't care if they play the games on outdoor playgrounds as long as it's fair.

You want to have shitty crowds and no interest in perpetuity? Then keep handing out favors to the chosen teams and distorting the results, and thereby guarantee that no one other than fans of the few chosen teams ever cares about the sport.

You want to have a sport people will watch? Then put the integrity of the sport as the first and only consideration.

Seriously, what do empty seats matter in determining a true champion? Absolutely nothing.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 03/31/19 9:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
Looking ahead:

2020 Regional Sites (schools that could have 'home' games)

Fort Wayne, IN (ND, IU?)
Portland, OR (Oregon, ORST)
Dallas, TX (Baylor, A&M)
Greenville, SC (SC)

2020 Finals
New Orleans, LA



2021 Regional Sites

Spokane, WA (I'm not sure who will be good in two years that this could be a home court for)
Albany, NY (UConn)
Cincinnati, OH (Louisville)
Austin, TX (Baylor, A&M)

2021 Finals
San Antonio, TX (Baylor, A&M)


I don't have a problem with the #1 seed playing close to home. But #2s or lower should automatically be sent to another region rather than be gifted a home court advantage over higher seeded teams. It's grossly unfair. And I don't give a damn about ticket sales. Run a bona fide, serious, fair competition and you'll sell plenty of tickets.


Twice you have called this a home court advantage when in fact that is simply not true and a gross exaggeration of what home court is. And I would take you more seriously if you had posted a diatribe against Notre Dame the year they hosted a regional on campus while many other top teams refused and cited their distaste for competitive dis-advantage as the reason.
But from memory every Irish fan defended it.

And for the record I favor a single site regional. My pick is Vegas but any place as long as it's at least 1000 miles from South Bend. Very Happy


elsie



Joined: 08 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 03/31/19 10:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ncaa doesn't give one flying crapola about womens bb.....they care about outcomes.....

uconn and oregon are about outcomes........

they wanted a certain outcome and they got what they wanted.....


elsie



Joined: 08 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 03/31/19 10:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oregon playing in Portland is an outstanding advantage....obscene really.....then again Uconn has gotten away with it for a decade.....


do we really want womens college bb to become bigger and better or do we want a few teams the hell with the rest of them........

mens tournament is much better.....you actually have to go someplace.


cthskzfn



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Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 03/31/19 10:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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PostPosted: 03/31/19 11:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I would (maybe) feel more strongly about it if I didn't think that either of these #2 seeds could really have been #1 seeds.

Precisely correct: UConn and Oregon BOTH were viable #1s, and MISS-State & L'ville could easily have been #2s. Same places. Same outcomes.



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uconnfan1



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 6:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Vic Schaefer in his post game interview said he would rather play in the Atmosphere that they had, then in a game where there were only 1000 fans in attendance. The answer was in response to a question about where Miss St was placed.

If Miss St was a #2 seed which many thought they should have been, they're most likely sent to Albany. If that had happened, they're probably going to the F4 despite UConn having a huge Crowd advantage. Miss St's overwhelming Size Advantage over UConn would have made the difference. Miss St had less of a size advantage over Oregon compared to what they would have had against UConn.

Miss St was the 4th #1 seed and Portland was the only Regional available.

From a match up perspective, UConn got the best #1 seed to get them to the F4.


SDHoops



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

AB23 and WNBA09/her alter ego just hate UConn. GO Huskies! Your predictions of UConn losing as early as second round were WRONG!


Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/01/19 10:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:

I don't have a problem with the #1 seed playing close to home. But #2s or lower should automatically be sent to another region rather than be gifted a home court advantage over higher seeded teams. It's grossly unfair. And I don't give a damn about ticket sales. Run a bona fide, serious, fair competition and you'll sell plenty of tickets.


Laughing

Yeah that worked out SO WELL last time they did that. You know, when the seats were empty at every venue. Not hard to remember which teams STILL made the FF in spite of losing "home court." Like UConn was REALLY going to lose to Louisville on a neutral court, in March. FOH.

I'm sure YOU don't care about ticket sales. You have no financial investment into the success of the game. If I were a betting man I would say that you don't even attend games to begin with.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to make women's BB profitable? Louisville is killing it attendance-wise and they STILL run a multi-million dollar deficit, effectively wiping out the gains they made from the men's program. How about we just let them decide what works for them financially?




Last edited by Stonington_QB on 04/01/19 10:48 am; edited 2 times in total
ClayK



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 10:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There is no perfect solution here ...

1) This year, there was a simple fix for the "home court" advantage, but in many years, there is not. But if you want fans and a good atmosphere and to get people excited about the sport, then you need to have a team like Oregon playing close to home.

How many people would have been in the Moda Center in Portland to watch UConn play? Maybe, just maybe, 4,000 -- more likely 2,000. Now add in the cost to fly everyone across the country so that no fans can show up.

It's perfectly rational to assign teams this way, but it's also unfair.

2) True seeding, all about the competition. This means you

a) play all games at neutral courts, with increased expense and lower income;

b) don't worry about having league teams play other league teams in the first round (if it's all about the competition, then all that matters is the quality of the teams, not their affiliation);

c) Don't worry about the atmosphere around the games and ESPN shots of empty seats everywhere.

This too is perfectly rational.

Imagine the screams, though, if the first-round game in Portland was an 8/9 game between two SEC teams ... and the complete lack of interest.



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TotalCardinalMove



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 11:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Isn’t your favorite team essentially getting a “home” game against Stanford tonight?


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 12:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SDHoops wrote:
AB23 and WNBA09/her alter ego just hate UConn. GO Huskies! Your predictions of UConn losing as early as second round were WRONG!


Correct i did predict they would lose . You think their going to win the title ? Laughing



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bullsky



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 12:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

These sites are decided so far in advance, it's hard for me to understand how anyone thinks these were set up to achieve results.

If you don't like where the games are being hosted - then fine, bid.

Also, as many have mentioned, yesterday's results were so close and the top 8 have been so close this year that seeds didn't really matter. It's just one more thing for people to complain about...



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acsuc99



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
These sites are decided so far in advance, it's hard for me to understand how anyone thinks these were set up to achieve results.

If you don't like where the games are being hosted - then fine, bid.

Also, as many have mentioned, yesterday's results were so close and the top 8 have been so close this year that seeds didn't really matter. It's just one more thing for people to complain about...


And let's be real....if it was ONLY Oregon getting the benefit of the crowd certain people wouldn't say a word.


acsuc99



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PostPosted: 04/01/19 12:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:
Isn’t your favorite team essentially getting a “home” game against Stanford tonight?



Yup.


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PostPosted: 04/01/19 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree that the current system leads to less than ideal results. Unfortunately, while we on the board may not care about ticket sales the NCAA does. Since the women's tournament doesn't have as many sponsors to buy up tickets and WCBB is a lesser draw than MCBB generally, their answer has been to keep high drawing teams close to home even if they're lower seeds. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe the one site thing people have been pushing is the best one.



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