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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 03/29/19 11:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:

As I understand it, these policies are grounded in the rights of uncharged persons to privacy, their reputations and the presumption of innocence. Redactions from the Mueller report for these policies would be in addition to all grand jury evidence and classified evidence, which must by law be redacted. I have no reason to think AG Barr has a different view. Since all the Trump people and in fact all Americans are uncharged third parties re Russian collusion, there may be no specific evidence made public about any American at all on this issue.


Great, another year and a half of “no collusion!” on Fox News, and “collusion!” on CNN and MSNBC.


pilight



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PostPosted: 03/29/19 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:

As I understand it, these policies are grounded in the rights of uncharged persons to privacy, their reputations and the presumption of innocence. Redactions from the Mueller report for these policies would be in addition to all grand jury evidence and classified evidence, which must by law be redacted. I have no reason to think AG Barr has a different view. Since all the Trump people and in fact all Americans are uncharged third parties re Russian collusion, there may be no specific evidence made public about any American at all on this issue.


Great, another year and a half of “no collusion!” on Fox News, and “collusion!” on CNN and MSNBC.


You don't have to watch. You would miss very little.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/29/19 12:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 03/29/19 1:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Howee wrote:
In other words, The Rules got changed, right?

Cuz it was absurd that a sitting president should be *nailed* for impeachment, stemming from an illicit love affair with an intern and its subsequent 'impact' on our government


People didn’t approve of his sexcapades, but it was lying under oath about it that was the crime.


I know that. And that's precisely why Trump's handlers saw to it that HE didn't testify to Congress under oath....he can't help but lie.

So we're left with one president who was impeached for a lie relating to a sex scandal, and this one, who lies constantly and is involved in something far more egregious: an unholy alliance with a foreign adversary, and he's *blameless*. Evil or Very Mad



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 03/29/19 4:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Mueller report will be released to the public by mid-April

Quote:
“Everyone will soon be able to read it on their own,” Barr wrote in a letter to congressional leaders on Friday. “I do not believe it would be in the public’s interest for me to attempt to summarize the full report or to release it in serial or piecemeal fashion.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/29/19 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
The Mueller report will be released to the public by mid-April

Quote:
“Everyone will soon be able to read it on their own,” Barr wrote in a letter to congressional leaders on Friday. “I do not believe it would be in the public’s interest for me to attempt to summarize the full report or to release it in serial or piecemeal fashion.


HERE is Barr's letter of today. Let's examine it closely to see what he says about redactions, especially his key fudge word.

Quote:
. . . . we are well along in the process of identifying and redacting the following: (1) [grand jury] material subject to Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 6(e) that by law cannot be made public; (2) material the intelligence community identifies as potentially compromising sensitive sources and methods; (3) material that could affect other ongoing matters, including those that the Special Counsel has referred to other Department offices; and (4) information that would unduly infringe on the personal privacy and reputational interests of peripheral third parties.


Redaction category "(4)" is what I was discussing in my previous post with the quotes from Rosenstein and the DOJ Manual. The scope of this redaction category can vary dramatically depending on whom Barr considers to be "peripheral". It's possible, as I've suggested, that Barr will consider all unindicted persons to be peripheral third parties re Russian collusion and that all specific evidence about them will be redacted, leaving only Mueller's analytical conclusion of no criminal contacts or coordination by any of them. If so, here's the kind of privacy-invading and reputation-harming specifics we won't see (but what the the Congressional Democrats and other TDS'ers want to see):

"Don Jr. engaged in the following six transactions with Russians, in detail. We analyzed this conduct under criminal statutes A and B. We find that his conduct violated conspiracy elements X and Y but that there was not enough evidence on criminal element Z. Therefore, though it was a close call, we didn't indict Don Jr."

As to obstruction, the only potential party involved (that we know of) is the President. Therefore, there will have to be some sort of analytical discussion of Trump's publicly known conduct in the context of the relevant obstruction statutes. Even here, however, if you read the letter, Barr does not exclude the possibility that he will redact some things on the basis of Presidential executive privilege on behalf of Trump.
tfan



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PostPosted: 04/03/19 11:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some on Mueller’s Team See Their Findings as More Damaging for Trump Than Barr Revealed

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Some of Robert S. Mueller III’s investigators have told associates that Attorney General William P. Barr failed to adequately portray the findings of their inquiry and that they were more troubling for President Trump than Mr. Barr indicated, according to government officials and others familiar with their simmering frustrations.


Quote:
The officials and others interviewed declined to flesh out why some of the special counsel’s investigators viewed their findings as potentially more damaging for the president than Mr. Barr explained, although the report is believed to examine Mr. Trump’s efforts to thwart the investigation.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/10/19 10:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

the cover-up continues



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 8:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Are you ready for The Barr Cover-Up, PART 2?!

Coming Thursday to a media outlet near you!!



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/16/19 8:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Are you ready for The Barr Cover-Up, PART 2?!

Coming Thursday to a media outlet near you!!


Seems premature to call the summary a cover-up, although Mueller team members have reportedly told "close associates" that there was "immediate displeasure" at the summary.

But NBC News reports:
The Mueller report won't stay secret forever. How William Barr redacts it will determine his place in history.

Quote:
As to grand jury material, a federal judge has — as Chief U.S. District Judge John Sirica had 45 years ago during Watergate — the legal authority to find that the need for Congress to see the document supersedes the secrecy requirement of Rule 6(e).


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 9:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Are you ready for The Barr Cover-Up, PART 2?!

Coming Thursday to a media outlet near you!!


Seems premature to call the summary a cover-up,



Given Barr's history of cover-up in the Iran-Contra treason, his 1st cover-up of The Mueller Report given last month, and the fact that he didn't seek Judicial approval to allow grand jury testimony, it's not premature at all. His cover-up tomorrow will at least be pretty, given its multi-colored redactions.

History and Washington politics pretty much assure us The Barr Cover-up, Part 2.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 9:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="cthskzfn"]
tfan wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Are you ready for The Barr Cover-Up, PART 2?!

Coming Thursday to a media outlet near you!!


Seems premature to call the summary a cover-up,



I forgot the most glaring- Barr's unsolicited 19-pg memo on how [Trump] is above the law as regards obstruction of justice.

There are also financial ties to Russia.

Barr, at the very least, should have recused himself.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 10:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

According to Watergate lawyer Jill Wine-Banks, Barr can release the entire Mueller Report, in full, to those in Congress who hold appropriate clearance. No need for any judicial ruling.

IOW, Barr is obstructing justice.



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5thmantheme



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 6:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tomorrow is gonna be fun.


A solid round of polling has happened.
The NBC + WSJ poll has 29% believing Trump's total exoneration lie. See Q27 :
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5785021-19093-NBCWSJ-March-Poll-3-31-19-Release.html

Quinnipiac found 75 to 17, that even a majority of the Republicans want to see the whole report made public.
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2609

Judge Napolitano says on Neil Cavuto's show : " ... there is undoubtedly some evidence of a conspiracy and some evidence of obstruction of justice,”
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/mueller-report-undoubtedly-proves-some-conspiracy-obstruction-but-not-enough-judge-napolitano


Fun and games.
Exclamation


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 7:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Barr will not release his heavily redacted, read neutered, report to the press prior to his press conf, contrary to normal procedure.

Because that's what you do when your client/boss is not guilty, and you engage in transparency. Laughing



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/17/19 7:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

5thmantheme wrote:
Tomorrow is gonna be fun.




The likelihood of that does seem to be very high. Abby Phillips on CNN, one reasonable old school impartial network news of the past style voice on that network, detailed the paranoia running through administration circles past and present. It all sounds very convincing and she’s a rock solid reporter. The embarrassment and anger and the information could all amount to true turning point for the Trump presidency and for his hopes in 2020.

Somehow I kind of doubt it all though. Sorry. Could be the amusement park field trip we’ve all been waiting for for so long. Or it could all be cancelled due to yet more rain. One scenario is that it’s just more of the same tales of administrative disorder etc. or disengagement by an American president we’ve all been hearing about for so long. That will give everyone who hates Trump a good day of laughs but not only is it not going to get it done, if the Dems try to make something out of what might even be less embarrassing than the Access Hollywood tape, it’s going to have grave implications for the Dems in 2020.

I suggest restraint and letting Pelosi take the lead on all of it. Listen to Nancy and that’s the best bet the Democratic Party has.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/18/19 9:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pretty much the farce expected.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 04/18/19 1:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

From page 157 of Mueller Report: “Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations... carried out through one-on-one meetings in which [he] sought to use his official power outside of usual channels"



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/18/19 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

“The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests."



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/18/19 2:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So...reading the Mueller report...

Basically, the Media was largely accurate in their reporting. Barr's summary was spin, and Taibbi had more than a little egg on his face for not waiting to read the full report before taking his anti-mainstream media victory lap.

Nate Silver had an awesome analogy for how to characterize how Mueller sees the Russian Collusion aspect of this case:

"In his conclusion to Volume I (coordination), Mueller says that the Trump campaign was "in some instances" receptive to Russian offers to coordinate.

That's something Barr left out of his letter, which mentioned the offers but not the campaign's receptiveness.

Overall, the impression one gets from Vol. I is there was rather explicit flirting between the Trump campaign and Russia, even some making out, but it was a sloppy night and they didn't get around to hooking up, although they might have if circumstances had been a bit different.

Again, the biggest possible exception—where there may have been hooking up?—seems to be Manafort sharing internal polling w/ Kilimnik, who the report says has "ties to Russian intelligence". Mueller can't account for Manafort's purpose in sharing the data or what happened to it."



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Howee



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PostPosted: 04/18/19 5:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:

Again, the biggest possible exception—where there may have been hooking up?—seems to be Manafort sharing internal polling w/ Kilimnik, who the report says has "ties to Russian intelligence". Mueller can't account for Manafort's purpose in sharing the data or what happened to it."


You silly goose! You must not have seen the Kilimnik interview a couple days ago on PBS. HE said he never knew of such things, and had no interest in Russian intel. Rolling Eyes Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I can see why Donald has such an affinity for the Russians....they are all masters in the art of lying.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 04/18/19 7:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VKtCw6WWzkg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/18/19 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://hillreporter.com/20-most-damaging-items-from-muellers-report-31869



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Shades



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PostPosted: 04/18/19 11:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lNMOI_SRV38" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/18/19 11:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lNMOI_SRV38" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


I would have expected Adam Schiff to be claiming that the Mueller report showed collusion given how he has stated that there was evidence of it for over a year.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eWXrQrKD5aY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TZafTtNBrZs" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/T_5mct8WArc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tcJ8_TJfUWE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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