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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/18/19 3:34 pm    ::: The Mueller Report Reply Reply with quote

I keep seeing all these Mueller Report books being offered for sale on Amazon and elsewhere. For example:









There are also books being advertised that analyze or criticize the Mueller Report, such as.



Have any of you read any of these books?

I didn't realize the Mueller Report had been issued. I wasn't even aware that it would ever be publicly issued. The Special Counsel Regulations say that the Special Counsel "shall provide the Attorney General with a confidential report explaining the prosecution or declination decisions reached by the Special Counsel." This confidential report could just be two paragraphs long. The "explaining" paragraph could simply list the indictments brought, the content of which are all publicly known and so don't need any further explaining. The the "declination" paragraph could simply say that no one else will be prosecuted for any crime. That could be it.

The regulations go on to say that the Attorney General will notify the heads of the Judiciary Committees in the House and Senate, presumably confidentially, when the Special Counsel's work is concluded, but there is no required form or content for this report (except if the Special Counsel proposed any actions that were "inappropriate or unwarranted".)

So will the Mueller Report or the Attorney General's concluding report ever be known? If so, will they say anything significant? If so, will any of the content change anyone's mind about Trump or his administration? The answer to this last question, I'm quite confident, will be NO.

But, then again, I admittedly haven't read any of the many books on the Mueller Report yet.
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 03/18/19 6:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Are they pre-sale items? I don’t think that’s totally unusual but I guess in the case of something anticipated to this degree there’s a great number of entities vying to capitalize on something like this and the mechanisms are all in place just waiting for the content to be released and dropped in. It is a striking visual though, even if that’s the case. And again, a window into how things are done by those who know how to do things. I feel like bemused wonderment is going to the perspective that defines the rest of my life. Wink



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 03/22/19 5:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's done.

Quote:
Special counsel Robert Mueller completed his investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election on Friday, delivering a report that signals the end of the long-running inquiry that loomed over the first two years of Donald Trump's presidency and saw a half-dozen of his top aides convicted of federal crimes.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/22/robert-mueller-report-president-trump-russia-election-investigation/2213214002/



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 03/22/19 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What I'm gathering from early speculation is that the racist was smart not to sit down with Mueller and will have another six more years in office.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 03/22/19 6:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well that’s that. No further indictments. Back to the jazz greats thread.

Evan Perez. CNN on what we know so far from the information that has been presented.

It’s important to underscore that big headline: No more indictments. And that’s an important thing for the president. After 675 days of this investigation, after an investigation that has frankly clouded his administration since the beginning of his presidency, the president can begin to probably breathe a little bit easier.

He knows, so far, from the Mueller investigation, the public information that has been released ... that there has been nothing that comes close to what looks collusion or conspiracy that has been at the focus of this investigation. The idea that there was somebody in the president’s campaign who was colluding with the Russians. None of that has come forward.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 03/22/19 6:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My take on the Mueller report is that I’d like to read the Mueller report before having a take on it



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 03/22/19 7:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
My take on the Mueller report is that I’d like to read the Mueller report before having a take on it


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tfan



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PostPosted: 03/22/19 7:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Adam Schiff wants to see the report to look for crimes that weren’t prosecuted. Also to look for espionage violations that were committed knowingly or unknowingly.

I read in the last few days that there are some kind of “rules” or what have you, that prevent the report being released, as opposed to the Starr report with Clinton that was done by a different (now defunct) investigator.

Scott Adams made an interesting point the other day. Every Russian who had a contact with a Trump campaign official is said to have “connections to the Kremlin”. The only Russians who have not been said to have connections to the Kremlin are the ones who are the alleged sources of the Steele dossier, whoever those unnamed individuals might be.


sambista



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PostPosted: 03/22/19 8:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
My take on the Mueller report is that I’d like to read the Mueller report before having a take on it


me, too. no further indictments, if that's what's being gleaned so far, could mean no further indictments at this time because the justice dept has deemed, as policy, that a sitting president can't be indicted. there could be sealed indictments. and/or there could be nothing proving collusion but instead other crimes that have been handed off to the southern district. and/or it doesn't mean all members of his family are in the clear. i'll wait.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 03/22/19 9:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just want to point out that was CNN’s Evan Perez speaking in the last two paragraphs of my post. Although I’m inclined to agree. No indictment is what matters. Not what can be dug out of the report that would embarrass Trump or his family. That’s just people who have no power playing parlor games.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/22/19 10:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CNBC:

Quote:
Special counsel Robert Mueller has concluded his investigation and will not file any more indictments in connection with his inquiry into Russian interference in the 2016 campaign, NBC News reported on Friday, citing a senior U.S. law enforcement official. There are no sealed indictments.

It is possible that leads uncovered during the special counsel’s inquiry and handed off could lead to charges brought by state prosecutors or other parts of the Department of Justice. But Mueller has no more indictments waiting under seal, and he will not recommend any further indictments, multiple outlets reported.


No other U.S. Attorney office will be authorized by AG Barr to investigate matters that were within the mission authority of Mueller. That subject matter authority is concluded now that Mueller's mission is concluded. Any further legal prosecutions would have to be something completely unrelated to Mueller's mission.

However, that's unlikely, because Mueller's authorized mission was extremely broad. It was to investigate and prosecute "(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and (ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and (iii) any other matters [relating to crimes that interfere with the Special Counsel's investigations such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses]."

All of Mueller's indictments were made under (ii) and (iii). Hence, Mueller, by stating that he will not file or recommend any further indictments, has neccessarily concluded that there never was any indictable conduct by anyone under (i) (Russian collusion) and that there is no further indictable conduct under (ii) (spinoff crimes) or (iii) (obstruction of justice and perjury).
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 03/24/19 3:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting point coming out here on page 3 of the AG's letter to congress.

Because the special counsel's investigation could not find evidence that Trump had committed a crime with regards to Russian interference in the 2016 election and the absence of such evidence, in effect to say that without Trump having committed the underlying crime, in the absence of that underlying crime, then Trump's actions like firing Comey etc. would not be seen as obstructing justice. No underlying crime by Trump, then his firing Comey can't be obstruction of justice.

Just when I thought I had this obstruction thing all figured out.

Funny. To go back and revisit Trump's exact words now.

Quote:
I was going to fire Comey knowing there was no good time to do it

And in fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself -- I said, you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 03/24/19 3:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They didn't subpoena Trump for a sit down nor ever even get to the issue of whether or not they could indict a sitting president because they never had any evidence that Trump committed a crime.

See. This completely fits my theory about Trump. I lived through Nixon, Bush, Reagan's basement and the California Mafia, Shrub's Neo Cons. Donald Trump just isn't operating on that level. This guy wants a twinkie and a hot chocolate in the morning and to be left alone to watch his shows. If you put a crooked real estate deal in front of him he'd be on it like it was Russian hooker with a full bladder. But that's all you're going to get with Trump. You can't really look deeper and expect to find deep things. There is no depth to this man. Please.

Meanwhile, over the years, with the right devils in place, his administration is piece by piece doing very bad things. WE'RE NOT HEARING ABOUT THOSE THINGS! Only Howee is. The American public are being bamboozled by this freak show that is our news media.

Here is one of those stories.

Politico: Recording Reveals Oil Industry Execs Laughing at Trump Access

"Gathered for a private meeting at a beachside Ritz-Carlton in Southern California, the oil executives were celebrating a colleague’s sudden rise. David Bernhardt, their former lawyer, had been appointed by President Donald Trump to the powerful No. 2 spot at the Department of the Interior.

Just five months into the Trump era, the energy developers who make up the Independent Petroleum Association of America had already watched the new president order a sweeping overhaul of environmental regulations that were cutting into their bottom lines — rules concerning smog, fracking and endangered species protection.

Dan Naatz, the association’s political director, told the conference room audience of about 100 executives that Bernhardt’s new role meant their priorities would be heard at the highest levels of Interior.

“We know him very well, and we have direct access to him, have conversations with him about issues ranging from federal land access to endangered species, to a lot of issues,” Naatz said, according to an hourlong recording of the June 2017 event in Laguna Niguel provided to Reveal from The Center for Investigative Reporting.

The recording gives a rare look behind the curtain of an influential oil industry lobbying group that spends more than $1 million per year to push its agenda in Congress and federal regulatory agencies. The previous eight years had been dispiriting for the industry: As IPAA vice president Jeff Eshelman told the group, it had seemed as though the Obama administration and environmental groups had put together “their target list of everything that they wanted done to shut down the oil and gas industry.” But now, the oil executives were almost giddy at the prospect of high-level executive branch access of the sort they hadn’t enjoyed since Dick Cheney, a fellow oilman, was vice president."

But it's not the only story like this. And here is the thing. I believe Trump could be bent to the will of the public on many many issues and fronts. I believe he is a malleable person who desperately seeks approval and personal gratification through praise. He is vulnerable in that sense. Weak. And if we were getting nuts and bolts news stories daily about what exactly his administration was up to. But we're not getting that. And we've all become participants in this giant joke of a relationship between government, the press, and the people. Anyway.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin


Last edited by jammerbirdi on 03/24/19 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 03/24/19 3:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Interesting point coming out here on page 3 of the AG's letter to congress.

Because the special counsel's investigation could not find evidence that Trump had committed a crime with regards to Russian interference in the 2016 election and the absence of such evidence, in effect to say that without Trump having committed the underlying crime, in the absence of that underlying crime, then Trump's actions like firing Comey etc. would not be seen as obstructing justice. No underlying crime by Trump, then his firing Comey can't be obstruction of justice.

Just when I thought I had this obstruction thing all figured out.

Funny. To go back and revisit Trump's exact words now.

Quote:
I was going to fire Comey knowing there was no good time to do it

And in fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself -- I said, you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story.


No intent on the part of Trump to obstruct justice because Trump, in the absence of evidence that he committed a crime, might have known he hadn't done anything wrong.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 03/24/19 4:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You know how they fatten up the livers of ducks and geese for making foie gras? They hook them up to machines that forces food down their throats. This is that day for a lot of people in this country and it's going to go on and on and on. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I said if the Mueller investigation came up as a dud, Trump would be beating his chest going into 2020 like King Kong. I'm not saying a special counsel shouldn't have been appointed to investigate Russian interference in our election. But people hate Trump a little too much for the good of us all.

This is the first official statement from the Trump campaign. And it is fresh.

The American people should take notice that the Democrats have lied to you. While President Trump has been hard at work building a booming economy and making you safer.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/24/19 5:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Good news for Trump: With a staff of 60, with 2800 subpoenas, with 500 search warrants and with interviews of 500 witnesses, Mueller concludes that no person in the Trump campaign, or associated with it, "conspired or coordinated" with the Russian bad guys. He thereby affirmatively exonerated probably hundreds of people.

Bad news for Trump: Mueller has insufficient evidence to indict Trump for obstruction, but he declines to affirmatively exonerate him, leaving that decision to his bosses in the DOJ, Rosenstein and Barr, who then officially exonerate Trump.

There is a legal issue as to the interpretation of the some of the many federal obstruction statutes, and Mueller may have felt it was not his job to make the final decision. But I feel it was petty and cowardly, and perhaps influenced by the partisanship of his team, for Mueller not to make a "traditional prosecutorial judgment" "under Department standards" as to whether there was criminal obstruction. This was a much easier issue than Russian collusion. The president had clear constitutional authority to fire Comey or anyone else in the executive branch; the firing of Comey obviously did not stop any of the investigations, but rather inaugurated the Mueller appointment; and Trump, for all his Twitter rants, never did anything is his official capacity to stop or interfere with Mueller.

Because Mueller himself did not in so many words exonerate Trump on obstruction, and by leaving the decision to Barr and Rosenstein, there will be unrelenting calls by Democrats for the "evidence on both sides" of the obstruction issue, which Barr says is in the Mueller report. This will result in an unabated political witch hunt that will dog Trump until the election. If the evidence is made public, the Democrats will seize on any seeming evidence of obstruction -- even though it doesn't constitute a crime -- and use that evidence to continue with shrill calls for impeachment. Which the leftstream media will trumpet endlessly in their unquenchable quest for clicks.

(The words I put in quotes are from the Barr report to Congress.)
tfan



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PostPosted: 03/24/19 7:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I watched Wolf Blitzer on CNN, and he had a dozen or so unhappy pundits and TV reporters who didn't seem to want to make a concession that there was no Russian collusion, possibly because many had argued or suggested that there was. Maybe they were offering excuses without presenting them as excuses. But things like "we know that the Trump campaign had numerous contacts with Russians" and "there were 36 indictments" (without mentioning 24 were to unaffiliated Russians and others were for things Manafort and his assistant did unrelated to the Trump campaign) sounded like suggestions that it is still up in the air as to whether there was collusion. A few also said that "we haven't seen the whole report, we don't know what is in it" suggesting that Barr's summary, which included a quote from the report (which one of them repeatedly pointed out) about no Russian collusion, was incorrect.

This article talks about the press reporting of the last few years.

It's official: Russiagate is this generation's WMD


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/24/19 9:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Trump campaign had a video ready:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/z0A4yvTAwTg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
pilight



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PostPosted: 03/24/19 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you recall Mueller's investigation into the NFL after the Ray Rice situation, this result should no be surprising. In both cases he found exactly what the people who appointed him wanted him to find and nothing more.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 03/24/19 9:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Good news for Trump: With a staff of 60, with 2800 subpoenas, with 500 search warrants and with interviews of 500 witnesses, Mueller concludes that no person in the Trump campaign, or associated with it, "conspired or coordinated" with the Russian bad guys.)


No AMERICANS conspired or coordinated with the Russians. And this is a good day for all of us. No matter how much ANYBODY thinks they wanted it, I want people to just imagine the world we'd be living in had Mueller come to the conclusion that the POTUS or his family (okay, give 'em Qusay and Uday) had conspired with Russians. Good God. We are so happy to not be there.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 03/24/19 11:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
If you recall Mueller's investigation into the NFL after the Ray Rice situation, this result should not be surprising. In both cases, he found exactly what the people who appointed him wanted him to find and nothing more.


If he chose to ignore or not seek to find collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia then we should learn that from statements (or leaks if they can't talk directly for some reason) of the 15+ lawyers and other law enforcement personnel that worked on the case. Unless he managed to assemble a team of people who all felt that the Trump campaign should be allowed to collude with Russia.

And, if Trump and/or his people were talking to Russians about rigging the election or what have you - and we have that information - that information would be from our spy agencies who I would have to think would also have people who would leak it out.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/25/19 12:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 03/25/19 5:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OMG people you have to read the Matt Tiabbi piece. I’m starting a separate thread for it. Because it is so much bigger than Mueller et. al. This guy is beyond the Christopher Hitchens of our time. If you remember his Inside the Republican Clown Car, or his book on Trump, Insane Clown President, you might not recognize this being the same writer other than the brilliance. No question this is as important a piece of writing as has ever been produced in America.

You will see that and we will all be referring back to this piece for years.

It is from what I can make out a chapter from an upcoming book called Hate Inc.

“Part tirade, part confessional from the celebrated Rolling Stone journalist, Hate Inc. reveals that what most people think of as "the news" is, in fact, a twisted wing of the entertainment business.”



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 03/25/19 8:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Could someone here link to the full report? I didn't realize it had been released, but it sure seems like people here have read it ...


tfan



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PostPosted: 03/25/19 9:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Could someone here link to the full report? I didn't realize it had been released, but it sure seems like people here have read it ...


You should broaden that to “people here and on TV”. There was a few pundits on CNN who said “we haven’t seen the report, we don’t know what’s in it”, but the majority did not make direct statements with regard to Barr misquoting the report conclusion or that Meuller may have come to the wrong conclusion from the evidence he reported. They seemed resigned to “no collusion but we had indictments and all signs did point to collusion”. But maybe you are suggesting that there was something inappropriate going on between the Trump campaign and Russia, just not something that could be prosecuted. I saw some guy on Bloomberg news (announced as a former prosecutor) give that possibility today. After admitting he had been wrong in predicting the Meuller report collusion conclusion, he stated that the Barr letter only said “no conspiracy” and left open the possibility that the campaign “aided and abetted” and “encouraged”. But he didn’t appear to push that as a future legal issue, more like “pretty sure something was going on”. He referred to the Southern District court in New York, and courts in DC, Virginia and Maine having cases in a “this is far from over” way. But I think they are unrelated to the issue of Russian collusion.

The Democrat leaders are calling for the full report to be released but not saying that they think it might show Russian collusion.

Quote:
“The fact that Special Counsel Mueller’s report does not exonerate the president on a charge as serious as obstruction of justice demonstrates how urgent it is that the full report and underlying documentation be made public without any further delay,” Pelosi and Schumer said in a joint statement after Attorney General William Barr issued a summary of the report’s findings.


I agree with Allen Dershowitz - Meuller was a “special prosecutor” and should have made a decision one way or the other. 22 months with a big team is too long for “not sure”. I think he just didn’t want to deal with it, which would suggest he really feels there is obstruction of justice by a sitting president.


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