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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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 Posted: 03/17/19 1:22 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
It's not like the killer actually called Trump "symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose."
Oh wait, that is exactly what the killer called Trump.
You don't get to be mad that the media said the killer was inspired by Trump, Candace Owens, etc., when the killer himself said he was inspired by those people. |
Son of Sam said his dog told him to do it.
I get to be mad at the media when they, by their interpretation of his woefully lacking answer to a question posed to him on white nationalism, in direct relation to this mass killing, package their coverage in a way that paints Trump and his rhetoric for being to blame for the heinous act of a madman.
We saw the same thing but honestly even worse when Jussie Smollett said he was attacked by MAGA hat wearers. Trump and his rhetoric were to blame. The racism of white America was to blame. The media beat this drum as loudly as any anti-Trump meme they have ever held in their hands. Hollywood beat that drum. It was deafening. But what was the actual result of all that? MASSIVE fail. The voting public are witnesses to it all.
I can't be mad at the media? The resistance blames the media for Donald Trump’s very existence in the office he now holds. Maggie Haberman, who I think has been brilliantly harsh on Trump from day one, is a particular focus of their ire. I don't get that. If I were a person who nitpicked every sentence someone uttered I might be harping on what exactly you could possibly have meant by saying I ‘don’t get to be mad at the media.’
I think I get to be mad at the media.  _________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/17/19 1:28 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
It's not like the killer actually called Trump "symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose."
Oh wait, that is exactly what the killer called Trump.
You don't get to be mad that the media said the killer was inspired by Trump, Candace Owens, etc., when the killer himself said he was inspired by those people. |
X __________________________ (x millions of NOT-stupid Americans) |
Is anyone here calling you guys stupid Americans?_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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huskiemaniac
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 1049
Location: NE CT
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| Posted: 03/17/19 1:33 pm ::: |
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"The media is out to get Trump" is as accurate as "the downtrodden midwest voter, voting on economic issues, voted for Trump".
I can't deal with the insanity anymore.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/17/19 1:58 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
It's not like the killer actually called Trump "symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose."
Oh wait, that is exactly what the killer called Trump.
You don't get to be mad that the media said the killer was inspired by Trump, Candace Owens, etc., when the killer himself said he was inspired by those people. |
The killer is full of shit. He said whatever would generate the most coverage. His only motivation was self aggrandizement. |
....as is the Primary Motivation for Donald Trump: for a world leader to rise to THIS level of Role Model for THAT kind of person (and he's not alone) is most saddening.
Miss Barbie Doll merely IS what she IS: an iconic 'toy' created to inspire young people. Marketing has made her bigger than life, and she has impacted generations of young females. Might young ladies who become anorexic 'blame' her? (...and she doesn't even Tweet, does she?)
The SOLE responsibility for NZ's tragedy lies with the shooter; but IF Trump is named as an inspiration, it's HIS responsibility to push back and UNEQUIVOCALLY renounce ALL levels of white supremacy/racism/xenophobia in a most emphatic way. Words/images/reactions MATTER. His lack of venom towards this blight is telling. |
My post last night was initially much longer. I deleted the stuff on other previous mass shootings in America. So cutting to the chase. The Orlando shooter. He was born a Muslim from a very political Muslim family who immigrated from Afghanistan. According to Wikipedia, Omar Mateen visited Saudi Arabia for an eight-day trip in March 2011 and a ten-day trip in March 2012.
More:
The FBI investigated Mateen in May 2013 after he made "inflammatory" remarks while working as a security guard. Mateen had told his coworkers that his family was linked to al-Qaeda and that he had joined Hezbollah, both rivals of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) and of one another. Mateen pledged allegiance to ISIL during his 2016 shooting.[100] FBI Director James Comey commented on the contradictions within Mateen's statements. The FBI interviewed Mateen twice after opening an investigation; in these interviews, Mateen admitted to making the statements but "explained that he said them in anger because his co-workers were teasing him." After 10 months, the investigation was closed and Mateen determined not to be a threat. Mateen had been placed on a terrorist watch list while the investigation was under way, but he was removed from it afterwards.
The media pretty much concludes and popular opinion among thinking people is that none of this was really a factor in this mass shooter's actions. Although I don't KNOW, I personally downplay it as being what was behind his rampage. People seemed to settle more on the idea that he was a closeted and frustrated gay man.
So my question is this. Does any of this actually matter? I mean in THIS case. The case of the Orlando massacre. Yes, it would certainly matter if we definitively KNEW and could attribute this killer's actions to a specific motivation or inspiration. To what extent, I don't know, but we would have that much anyway. Had he actually been working with a terrorist organization or had been self-radicalized with the help of materials that are out there. Or had he been radicalized during his trips to Saudi Arabia. But we don't have any of that.
The fact is, the overriding fact is, that he wanted to kill and kill a lot of people.
The New Zealand killer had picked a side politically. That is obvious. The people who are on that political side were mentioned by him as being people he looked up to. I'm telling you, and I think I stated it here earlier in this thread or in another one in just the last few days, my concern that we are simply getting to that point as a country, and I guess as a planet. It is our reality. And I'm pretty sure I said that the people who have made the AR15 the number one selling firearm in the US for the last many years are going to increasingly be, I fear, responding to the political realities as well as the rhetoric of those whose voices they hear and respond to, to use those weapons against who they perceive as their political enemies.
These shooters, however, they don't get to shut down the tough conversation or rhetoric surrounding issues like immigration, etc. This guy ranted against the 1 percent. Believe me, we were already seeing a concerted effort in the news media to push back on rhetoric aimed at the 1 percent as being hate speech. Are we going to now attack the people's right to criticize economic inequality in this world because a mass murderer in New Zealand also hates the 1 percent?_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/17/19 2:03 pm ::: |
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| huskiemaniac wrote: |
"The media is out to get Trump" is as accurate as "the downtrodden midwest voter, voting on economic issues, voted for Trump".
I can't deal with the insanity anymore. |
You're saying it is INSANE to believe those two things? Seriously? You don't think that's an overstatement made out of your own stated exasperation and inability to 'deal' with things anymore?
Because I don't think I'm insane and I kind of believe, in an endlessly looping 24/7 news cycle and a country of well over 300 million, that both of those things can easily be held to be true.
I think what's happening, and has happened in this thread, is that, in frustration, a few of you are resorting to insinuating that people here that you don't agree with are stupid or insane. Or in one case, I don't even get to or have a right to have an opinion that I have. In past threads, it was about pushing the buttons that people were racists, or xenophobic, or Trump voters.
Argue. Debate the issues. Just about the only person here who posts reasoned arguments anymore is justin._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/18/19 3:28 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
It's not like the killer actually called Trump "symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose."
Oh wait, that is exactly what the killer called Trump.
You don't get to be mad that the media said the killer was inspired by Trump, Candace Owens, etc., when the killer himself said he was inspired by those people. |
X __________________________ (x millions of NOT-stupid Americans) |
Is anyone here calling you guys stupid Americans? |
Nope. My 'co-sign' was on the behalf of the many (majority?) Americans that are NOT duped by the screeching of those who say the MEDIA claimed a connection when, in fact, the perp was the author of the idea.
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| Just about the only person here who posts reasoned arguments anymore is justin. |
I must heartily agree.  |
A connection? And so every nut who goes on a shooting rampage who says he admires a public person IS, in fact, 'claiming a connection' to that person or thing and the majority of Americans, according to you, are not DUPED into believing that there's NOT a connection? Because the nutcase says he supports that person or thing? Seriously. Howee.
Okay, and again, so you're saying that people who find that to be kind of silly are stupid? Compared to people who think there's a connection?
Malcolm X John Lennon: Man. Look at that connection.
Stokely Abbie Hoffman: That's what we got there, MXJL. We got ourselves a connection.
Malcolm X John Lennon: Looks solid, too.
Look I don't want to laugh or belittle anyone, even though you guys kind of get off on that shit yourselves, but damn.
This guy also advocated for worker's rights and environmental responsibility. Did you know that? How does that fit into this narrative? So are we to think ONE iota less of the concept of workers' rights or environmental responsibility because this New Zealand shooter was a proponent of those two things? Or do we just dismiss that part? I mean, you didn't mention it. So what's up with that?
This is a group of people who REALLY are incapable of saying, You know, you've got a point there. I don't CARE. Fuck Trump is MY whole point. But you've got a point there. lol_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/18/19 10:18 am ::: |
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| Quote: |
| Nope. My 'co-sign' was on the behalf of the many (majority?) Americans that are NOT duped by the screeching of those who say the MEDIA claimed a connection when, in fact, the perp was the author of the idea. |
I was supporting Matty's assertion that some people wrongly wish to nail the MEDIA for making a connection that the perp himself made: that an icon of his inspiration was our president, Donald Trump. THAT CONNECTION IS NEITHER CONCOCTED, NOR IRRELEVANT. ESPECIALLY in light of our leader's lack of adamant rejection of ALL forms of racism/xenophobia, etc.
We know Donald's capable of Denial of the highest order: ("No collusion, No collusionNoCollusionNoCollusion", ad nauseum). He vehemently denies anything he wishes to distance himself from.
Re: The perp's 'other' interests? I don't give a damn if he saved drowning puppies every other Monday. This is about his heinous act, and his declaring our president as an icon of his inspiration. And he didn't just pick Donald's name out of a hat: he looked to him BECAUSE Donald has said and done many Racist/Xenophobic/Anti-Muslim things.
This is not distorted by the media. It's reality.
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/18/19 10:59 am ::: |
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Howee. You’re letting the media off if you think all they did was report on a connection (your word) between this shooter and Trump. The media sat down and said, Oops, bingo, happy days! The shooter mentions Trump. Let’s run with that like it’s a missing Malaysian airliner.
Now I haven’t turned on my TV yet. 8:27 AM Los Angeles. How long do you think it will be after I turn CNN on this morning that I hear something related to the fact that the NZ shooter liked Donald Trump. Let’s see.
Just cut to a commercial. Last image seen before that, at 8:27 AM, DOW down -40.81, a picture of Donald Trump with this banner under
DEVELOPING STORY-
WHITE HOUSE: “THE PRESIDENT IS NOT A WHITE SUPREMACIST”
DING DING DING DING! Damn. That didn't take long. I don’t know. I hadn’t turned my TV on at 8:27 AM. Turned it on and still in the very minute of 8:27 AM there’s that banner on CNN. Not looking good for anyone betting against the jammer this morning. Let’s see, 24 hours in a day, so that’s 1440 minutes. Seems like I proved my point in just the first of those 1440 minutes today that I tuned into CNN.
But let’s keep watching and see where in this wide world of news and current events CNN goes with their Monday morning news coverage after the commercial break.
Okay. 8:32 AM. We’re back from commercial. Let’s see where we’re at on this busy news day on the most trusted name in news.
Anchor sitting over this banner
MOSQUE TERROR ATTACKS
SEN. KAINE: TRUMP’S RHETORIC “EMBOLDENS” WHITE NATIONALISTS
 By the way I’m rolling my eyes at this conversation that we’re having. That I have to take my time to do this here.
If people could just say, “Yeah, jammer. Of course. We all can see what’s the plan here. But we fucking hate Trump and wish there were 48 hours and 2880 minutes in the day for CNN to attach his name to white supremacy.” If people could just say that, I would say, Yeah, whatever you think is going to work or whatever expresses your political voice. That’s cool. Personally think it's the wrong way to play this but whatever.”
But this shit of like, No it’s not happening like that at all. Don’t you see. The media is just reporting the facts. They have no agenda. It’s all good.
Look. I’m going to plainly admit something I’m quite sure I’ve said before. Most of my political utterances and thoughts in my entire politically aware life, which started early as my mother was politically active when I was a small child and we always had that focus as a family, but most of what has come out of my mind in my life has been me criticizing my own political side for what I consider to be its mistakes in methods, tactics, strategies, etc.
It’s just who I am. Don’t mind me._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Carol Anne
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Genero36
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/18/19 7:52 pm ::: |
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But this was an Australian ( pop. 24M) who did this. And he did it in New Zealand. (pop. 4M)
My state alone has almost twice as many people as Australia. And my city has roughly the same number of people as New Zealand. My COUNTY has over ten million people living in it.
We all know the many fringe groups who have found in Trump a hero and we know he is exactly the kind of politician to try to hang onto and not alienate that part of his support. But this is important.
In this country of an estimated 327 million people, with the proliferation of guns that we have here, with the AR15 being the largest selling firearm for years now, with Trump, with right-wing radio blasting the airwaves with incendiary material, with ALL OF THAT, we didn't do this. After 9/11, Boston, San Bernardino, no American nutcase has gone into a mosque and slaughtered 50 Muslims.
And we're a BIG country with a LOT of nutcases with a lot of political rancor and a lot of mass shootings. But in this supposed hotbed of white supremacy and Islamophobia I think it is worth noting at this time that an American has never done this.
Look, if I'm missing something, tell me. I'm not an encyclopedia. I know people in New Zealand are hurting. And I TRULY admire their quick action on changing gun laws. I only hope they are strict enough. But in every way, politically, culturally, psychologically, everyone needs to own their own shit. Australia produced this guy. They have their own very controversial record on immigration and treatment of refugees.
We DO have enough of our own to contend with._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
Last edited by jammerbirdi on 03/18/19 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66905
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 03/18/19 7:57 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| And I TRULY admire their quick action on changing gun laws. |
When you don't have constitutional protections for your rights, they can be taken away quickly and easily
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/18/19 8:07 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| And I TRULY admire their quick action on changing gun laws. |
When you don't have constitutional protections for your rights, they can be taken away quickly and easily |
I just don't know how we are going to be able to continue on as a civilized and safe species with those kinds of guns in the hands of anyone who wants them. You rent a hotel room and knock out a window and kill 60 and injure 900 people?
If you really really want to.
You know pets aren't allowed where we rent. Four buildings in a row. me and mrs jammer have a running joke.
No pets allowed.
1. Unless you already have one.
2. Or if you really really want one.
Handguns. Shotguns. Hunting rifles. Restrictions on magazines. 50 dead becomes 5 dead.
I mean, put yourself in one of these places. There's a guy with a gun shooting up the joint. You're there, trapped, waiting for help to arrive, hiding under a table. Just think how you would feel if he was popping off shots one at a time from a handgun, or he was just chopping up the place with a fully automatic assault rifle. In one scenario you'd have hope. In the other you would know you're going to die._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 03/19/19 1:45 am ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| They have their own very controversial record on immigration and treatment of refugees. |
Indeed.
And we have the significant advantage of being made up entirely* of islands, so walls are not an issue.
* with the exception of our territory in the Antarctic, which is really not a convenient destination for people looking to arrive on our soil/ice.
_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 03/19/19 4:08 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
Conflating "journalism" with "analysis"/"opinion" under the "media" umbrella is part of the problem, Jammer. |
I think it would be better if all these shows on the Cable News Networks had to have "talk show" or "opinion show" in their titles. Alisyn Camerota of CNN was hugely indignant and ticked off one day when John Sununu wouldn't say that CNN wasn't some equivalent of "fake news" despite her many proddings to do so. But when people turn on CNN they aren't normally watching somebody at the site of a hurricane or other news reporting. They are typically looking at someone in business clothes sitting in a TV studio or coming in via remote, answering questions that they were likely given before the show and sometimes reading answers from a teleprompter: making commentary (mostly political) which is littered with opinion and rarely fact-checked by the show.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/19/19 7:21 pm ::: |
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So I just got back from the DMV and I'm going to get on the treadmill. Turned my TV on for a 20 seconds. There's an incredible humanitarian crisis happening in Mozambique right now. Just going to be an incredible human tragedy. The attention of the world should be on it, the news media should be grabbing the attention of the public ASAP.
Just put my sneakers on and turned the TV on for 20 seconds. CNN. Banner reads Donald Trump says he was never a fan of John McCain. There's some old fart saying things to Anderson Cooper about 'despicable and disgraceful' etc. I don't think people are maybe taking my point about how absolutely dead stop spot on predictable this is. You turn on CNN and the Trump outrage of the moment is on a loop.
But this was CNN before Trump. Never forget the lost Malaysian airline story that CNN covered 24/7 for MONTHS. I've never seen anything like that in my life. That's CNN. And that's who they are going to be when Trump is gone. Now you can say they're not the enemy of the people because Trump said they are and you can’t possibly agree with him threatening our free press like that. But I think they're the enemy of the people. This is an abominable misuse of the power that comes with the press.
But I have to say, this 'never a fan of John McCain'... this one is different... because it is SO irrelevant, SO Trump just pushing a button to light up a portion of his base, SO the news media running with the Trump outrage of the moment just for the eyeballs it will bring to the screen. It's all deplorable and depressing at the same time.
Speaking of Trump pushing a button. The NPR and cutting arts funding etc. And you guys think Trump is a moron? Slam John McCain. Check. Threaten or defund the national endowment of the arts, etc. Check. This guy is locking up vast swaths of America. There will be no room for any other candidate to even breath but a Bernie Sanders come 2020. I'm just sayin'._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 03/19/19 8:03 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| There will be no room for any other candidate to even breath but a Bernie Sanders come 2020. I'm just sayin'. |
That's not quite accurate.
Immigration. NEA defunding. John McCain. Fake News. These are all "echo chamber" issues for Trump. They play very well with his base, and fire up deep red Republican voters.
There is a reason why Thom Tillis, after writing a rather well considered op-ed opposing the emergency declaration on the wall, ended up flip flopping and voting against the resolution. Trump keeps doubling down on these hot button Republican issues, not giving an inch, and so his support amongst Republicans is through the roof. His endorsement, or lack thereof, in most statewide Republican primaries is seen as a deciding factor.
But, what this also has done, is bleed support overall. He remains a very unpopular president. Historically so, when considered how stagnant those numbers have been without any sign of rebound. And this strategy proved to be a huge failure in the midterms as right and left-of-center swing voters all voted Dem. Also, there the numbers are suggesting that Trump's high Republican approval rating amongst Republicans is due in part to the fact that many of the Republicans that disapprove of Trump have stopped calling themselves Republicans.
In other words, while Trump is busy making sure other Republicans fear to cross him, and revelling in the high approval of Republicans, he is abandoning the center completely and taking on issues that either swing voters don't really care about, or that they actively disapprove of. This leaves a ton of ground for 2020 candidates to occupy, if they pay attention to the lessons learned in 2018, and not the flashy liberal pipe-dream (as much as I'd love for it to be real).
2018 elections: Nearly all of the Democratic gains against a Republican opponent came from swing districts where a moderate Democratic ousted a moderate Republican. Not a single "progressive" candidate defeated a Republican incumbent. The Dems won on a moderate message of saving the ACA and opposing Trump's more conservative plans. The progressives that won did so in heavily democratic areas where the real race is the primary.
It is most likely that a candidate like Sanders would actually cede the center ground back to Trump, or at least put it up for grabs again, where as a moderate would have more room to breathe having the center to themselves.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/19/19 8:14 pm ::: |
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So we’re going to do 2016 here on the boards all over again?
This is about talent. Whomever might have a chance of beating Trump will have to have talent. Bernie Sanders is a talent. He has the talent to take on Trump. Trump is a talent. Say it. Just go ahead and say it. Trump is a magnificent TALENT.
I can’t believe people haven’t learned the lessons of 2016.
Midterms. Happens every time. Presidential elections you have the Electoral College. The Democrats better find the candidate that lights up their base’s asses and looks like the American people are noticing and this time run that person with a VP pick that has some oomph as well._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 03/19/19 8:20 pm ::: |
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Okay we’re well off topic but you have to understand something else, too. This Mueller report ends up being a dud? Eww. So Trump will be pounding his chest like King Kong and you want to talk about bleeding? Support for anyone but Trump will be bleeding in swing states. Look I’m not saying any combination of opponents isn’t going to result in a close election. The election will be close. But I predicted Trump would win many a day here. Not so sure many other days. I still don’t believe it actually happened. But I know it can happen again and I can easily see how it might._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Howee
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 03/20/19 2:53 am ::: |
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Howee I'm not hurting for real news and information. I watch CNN and it's the most trusted name in news.
 Okay, let's try that again.
Howee I'm not hurting for real news and information. I watch or monitor CNN and other mainstream news networks because I want to know what the mainstream media is using their airtime to fixate on. I want to know how they're presenting events to a public that gets its information from the major news resources. Because THAT is politics. Maybe it wasn't always that way, but it is now. These cable networks move with information in the way that Twitter mobs do. Stories become viral and the networks can't get off of them. I'm interested in these viral moments, what events trigger them, and how and whatever slanted way they are then presented to the American public.
So for me, a real focus, but not the only one, is this fissure between a mainstream media that is pushing a political viewpoint and pushing it as objective news... and a nation of viewers who are no longer buying what the media is selling. Faith has been lost. As they say, the American people aren't that stupid. No matter the education level, they raise families, they have kids, they know lies and half-truths and twisting words and salty tears and all the other manipulative tricks. The result is a country that doesn't trust the news media and we all know how low the poll numbers are for the press. So this is something that I can't really help but watch like it's a runaway beer truck.
And Trump, for his part, lies so much and exaggerates and is so ill-prepared and unfit for the office, I mean, he's like an unwashed untrained St. Bernard crashing a refined dinner party. So I will admit it must be a real challenge to watch your every step and to NOT do what the media have been doing from the very beginning and that is letting their disgust turn into constant verbal condemnation and then editorial decisions made up the food chain that decide that the focus of an entire show is going to be bashing the POTUS and then the focus of the entire 24/7 news cycle etc. ad nauseam.
BECAUSE then the mistakes are made and the trust is lost. People, as I say, can see the mistakes and overstatements and the slanted coverage. And then you have succeeded in the monumental task of creating sympathy for the devil._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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justintyme
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Location: Northfield, MN
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| Posted: 03/20/19 3:32 am ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
Midterms. Happens every time. Presidential elections you have the Electoral College. The Democrats better find the candidate that lights up their base’s asses and looks like the American people are noticing and this time run that person with a VP pick that has some oomph as well. |
People like to throw around past events like they happen in a vacuum.
The midterms are bad for the president's party, but they don't mean anything come the next election. We know this, because...history!
Yes, history creates some pattern that can be examined. Yes, historically presidents have frequently been elected to a second term despite a disastrous midterm showing for their party. However, there is an actual reason for this if you actually break down the numbers: after the midterms, every single president that had their butts whipped moderated. They all, to a one, pivoted away from divisive issues and tackled issues that spoke to the swing voters instead. And every single one of them saw their approval ratings rebound upwards post-midterms because of it. They stopped appeasing their bases, and attempted to widen their support. Because that is how you win a Presidential Election.
In other words, the eventual winners treated the midterms as a shot across the bow and broadened their appeal. What they didn't do, is double down on their base and alienate the swing voters that actually decide elections while pretending that midterms don't matter because presidents still get reelected after bad ones....
As for the electoral college, I am not sure where you are going with this. It is just as likely to hurt Trump as to help him. It was in favor of Obama, turning a modest popular vote victory into an electoral landslide, while it helped Trump last election.
One more lesson from 2016 that we should remember: Trump managed to claim the middle. With his "working class" mantra, he positioned himself successfully as the moderate candidate of the two. It wasn't actually true, as we have seen, but he successfully convinced a lot of swing voters it was the case. They won't buy it this time...unless there is no moderate candidate, and then it is going to be ugly.
Trump will only be reelected if the Democrats nominate someone unelectable--like a socialist.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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| Posted: 03/20/19 9:31 am ::: |
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You make a lot of reasoned arguments there. But the difference between you and me is your certainty. I say Trump can win re-election. You maintain he can’t unless the Democrats nominate ‘a socialist.’ (Just say Bernie Sanders.) Which is to say the only person I can see in the field who can match Trump in terms of political talent and as a campaigner and as someone who has the rhetoric to inspire vast swaths of voters.
You’re sure you’re right. Me? When I see people saying things like “the only way Trump will win” I’m like Here we GO all over again. We lost the last election because of a milquetoast centrist VP selection to run with a politically gassed one-time superstar well past her prime in terms of inspiring the masses. People insisted that there was no way Trump could win. Data and voter demographics and the quality of one campaign’s machinery versus whatever inexperienced rag tag mob, oh, yeah, and the actual Mob, that Trump’s team consisted of.
These are different times than we’ve ever seen and Trump was a different kind of candidate then and has been a really different kind of president in an unprecedentedly strange and divisive time in this country and the world. So much is happening. Trump helps create the chaos then feeds off of it and rides it like no other figure we could have ever imagined being successful in American politics. I said it, I mean it. The Democrats are going to have a very hard time pulling up a name that can suck oxygen away from a Donald Trump if the Mueller Report turns out to be a dud.
At the very best this is going to be an excruciatingly close election that comes down to the same swing states as last time. You say those voters now can see through Donald Trump. Man, I don’t think that’s how any of this even works. The problem is seeing past Trump, not through him. Which I’m sure most people were able to do all along. These big times will require a very big voice to knock the Donald off his perch.
Related. If Bernie Sanders wins the nomination he should pick Hillary as his running mate. That’s the kind of electric excitement generating explosive nuclear move that it’s going to take to win if nothing comes of the Mueller investigation, IMO._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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