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And we complain about OUR referees!!

 
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summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley


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PostPosted: 03/05/19 9:34 am    ::: And we complain about OUR referees!! Reply Reply with quote

This is a complete travesty. Both coaches and the scorekeepers agree that the main scorekeeper made a mistake, the girls were allowed to replay the last couple of seconds, and then the NEXT DAY the main scorekeeper's original mistake was upheld! That really stinks for all concerned. Smells like payoff to me. The "rules" need changing.
https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-news/season-ends-in-controversy-for-brunswick-academy-girls-basketball-our-girls-were-cheated-/1826622784



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PostPosted: 03/05/19 11:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is as much on the scorekeepers. They should be constantly communicating the score. After every basket. The officials should know what is a correctable error and when it applies.

Here's what I found on scorekeepers responsibilities. Everything in parentheses is mine.

https://www.nfhs.org/media/1018426/2018_scorers_timers_sheets.pdf


Duties of scorekeepers (I'm going to take out some things that don't apply):

1. The nonofficial scorers (ie: the visiting team scorekeeper or a scorekeeper from both teams if the game wasn't at one of the two schools) should check each entry with the official scorebook.
2. The scorers should:
a. Announce to each other and record the total running score.
b. Announce the name and number of the player who scores.
c. Verify the scoreboard score.
3. In case of controversy, the record of the official scorebook is accepted unless the referee has knowledge which permits him or her to rule otherwise. (More on this later.)


Here's the later.

The officials knew that there was a mistake. Unfortunately, they didn't know it until after the scoreboard died. It all depends on when the error was discovered during the game. The article didn't really go into the entire sequence of events.

I didn't find an online version of the high school federation rules. Only found books to purchase. I did find this regarding correctable errors and again, I'm removing some things that don't apply.

https://www1.arbitersports.com/Groups/105990/Library/files/Correctable%20Errors%20Rule%202-10.pdf

Quote:
There are only five correctable errors under R2‐10 that may be corrected which are:

E. Erroneously counting or canceling a score

In order to correct any of the errors listed, the error must be recognized by an official during the first dead ball after the clock has started.


Let's go with this as an example:

The free throw by Middleburg Academy was counted as a make instead of a miss.

The player took a second free throw and made this one.

The ball is inbounded by Brunswick Academy and now becomes live.

MA deflects the ball out of bounds. Dead ball.

BA inbounds the ball again. Live ball.

Score board goes out. Dead ball.


In order to correct this error, it would have had to have been caught when MA deflected the ball out of bounds, or before BA inbounded it. As soon as BA inbounded the ball after the deflection, it was too late.

I don't know if this is close to what happened because the article didn't provide all of the info. If the scoreboard went out before the deflection in my example, then it should have been corrected at that time.

It sucks that it was something that had nothing to do with the players played such a role in determining the outcome of this game.

Finally, I think that the VISAA is going to have a little meeting with the BA AD to discuss his "our girls got cheated" comment.



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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 03/05/19 11:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BAA DID get cheated. Definitely. And the rules are wrong. Dead wrong. The other refs/scorekeepers met with the main scorekeeper and pointed out his mistake. He allowed them to replay. It was his responsibility. HE screwed up.

VISAA cheated the girls and that's how I see it. YMMV.



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PostPosted: 03/05/19 11:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
BAA DID get cheated. Definitely. And the rules are wrong. Dead wrong. The other refs/scorekeepers met with the main scorekeeper and pointed out his mistake. He allowed them to replay. It was his responsibility. HE screwed up.

VISAA cheated the girls and that's how I see it. YMMV.



Which rules are wrong?



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 03/05/19 12:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree that this was wrong. A scorekeeper makes a mistake in the book. It is one thing to correct the book according to a certain schedule if people are aware of the mistake. From what is reported it seems there was no reasonable way that the referees or either team would have known that the mistake was made. The issue of how the main scorekeeper and assistant scorekeepers for each team were communicating is in question, but that also raises the question of who was running the electronic scoreboard. Imagine the circumstance where a scorekeeper adds points to one team throughout the game incorrectly. No one is aware, but at the end of the game the score in the book reflects a different score from the true score.

What gets me is why, if both coaches and the refs agreed on the situation at the time, the administrators even got involved. And if the Middleburg Academy coach in fact agreed about the situation during the game I wonder why afterwards Middleburg would even accept the win. I also don't understand why the decision was to just play the last 2.3 seconds, because it sounds like the mistake was made sometime earlier. The scoreboard going out is a nice additional touch to add to the confusion.


Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 03/05/19 12:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Refs are now being called out more with the use of social media. Their bad calls will become part of who they are. It will be interesting how they will be evaluated as this becomes the norm.



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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 03/05/19 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
I agree that this was wrong. A scorekeeper makes a mistake in the book. It is one thing to correct the book according to a certain schedule if people are aware of the mistake. From what is reported it seems there was no reasonable way that the referees or either team would have known that the mistake was made. The issue of how the main scorekeeper and assistant scorekeepers for each team were communicating is in question, but that also raises the question of who was running the electronic scoreboard. Imagine the circumstance where a scorekeeper adds points to one team throughout the game incorrectly. No one is aware, but at the end of the game the score in the book reflects a different score from the true score.

What gets me is why, if both coaches and the refs agreed on the situation at the time, the administrators even got involved. And if the Middleburg Academy coach in fact agreed about the situation during the game I wonder why afterwards Middleburg would even accept the win. I also don't understand why the decision was to just play the last 2.3 seconds, because it sounds like the mistake was made sometime earlier. The scoreboard going out is a nice additional touch to add to the confusion.



THAT is what I'm referring to.



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