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Georgia Tech: what the heck?
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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 03/19/19 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Quote:
In a statement to the AJC, Lisa J. Banks wrote: “The NCAA has investigated and found multiple high-level recruiting violations by the men’s basketball coaching staff, yet it is the women’s basketball head coach, MaChelle Joseph, who remains suspended for reasons that have yet to be disclosed to her or to the Georgia Tech community. The hypocrisy is stunning. Georgia Tech’s actions with respect to Coach Joseph are emblematic of the persistent double standard for men and women across collegiate athletics.”


I don't find this contradictory, much less a gender double standard. Coaches are not typically suspended while recruiting violations are investigated, but they may be if the matter under investigation is more like a personal/privacy matter, employment contract issue, or some other thing with legal or bad publicity ramifications. GaTech has termed Josephgate a "personnel" matter, which could cover any of these kinds of things.

If it turns out to be nothing more than a typical recruiting violation, then it's time for some outrage.


First, there is a difference between "suspension" and "administrative leave." Josh Pasner is on neither; MaChelle Joseph is on "administrative leave" (based on my understanding).

Another difference is that Georgia Tech (men's basketball) has been served by the NCAA with a notice of allegations regarding alleged recruiting violations committed by former assistant basketball coach Darryl LaBarrie and Ron Bell, the former friend of coach Josh Pastner. The NCAA’s enforcement staff found two of the three allegations to constitute severe breaches of conduct (Level I violations), which are the highest level of violations in the NCAA’s structure.

The notice came after a joint review by the NCAA and Georgia Tech.

In other words, there has been an investigation going on...by the NCAA. GaTech men's coach Josh Pastner cooperated with NCAA investigators. The NCAA enforcement staff believes this case should be reviewed by a hearing panel of the NCAA Committee on Infractions.

Finally, your comment -- "or some other thing with legal or bad publicity ramifications" -- was perplexing (to me), in that the violations against the men's program involve dishonesty and failure to cooperate with the NCAA by some affiliated with GaTech, money at strip clubs, etc.

Is the notice of allegations -- which came after a preliminary investigation by the NCAA and a joint review by the NCAA and Georgia Tech -- not "bad publicity?"


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 03/19/19 4:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
snzuluz wrote:
not the first time this would have happened to this coach...sort of what ended Lynn Dunn's career at Purdue and MaChelle was also front and center of that incident.


It's perhaps unfair keep Joseph tied to what happened at Purdue in 1996, but it is history. She and Lin Dunn were fired ostensibly for recruiting violations, but with strong rumors (and even a police report on the internet) of personal misbehaviors.


As an aside, let me issue a statement of caution about "strong rumors" about a police report or what transpired in 1996. I cannot comment publicly, so it means that you will have to trust and believe me and my information (but my sources are unimpeachable and have first hand knowledge).


purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 03/19/19 4:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
snzuluz wrote:
not the first time this would have happened to this coach...sort of what ended Lynn Dunn's career at Purdue and MaChelle was also front and center of that incident.


It's perhaps unfair keep Joseph tied to what happened at Purdue in 1996, but it is history. She and Lin Dunn were fired ostensibly for recruiting violations, but with strong rumors (and even a police report on the internet) of personal misbehaviors.


As an aside, let me issue a statement of caution about "strong rumors" about a police report or what transpired in 1996. I cannot comment publicly, so it means that you will have to trust and believe me and my information (but my sources are unimpeachable and have first hand knowledge).


You can issue a statement of caution all you want, but as someone who lived in the area at the time and knows a lot about things, there is quite a bit more to the story than most have a clue about. It was over 20 years ago and I will let bygones be bygones. There is no need to stir it all up again.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 03/19/19 6:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not saying there was a rumor about a police report on the internet. The police report was on the internet. I read it, and though it was many years ago, I still clearly recall several of the juicy details.

As to my comment about bad publicity, what I was trying to say is that, if Josephgate involves something related to the personal lives of coaches or players, which may be very embarrassing to those people or the university, it may be the kind of thing that GaTech would not want to make public, perhaps ever, and may not want to formally accuse Joseph of unless and until the evidence is rock solid.

Maybe it ends up with the school telling Joseph they were investigating something confidential, that they've concluded she wasn't involved, that she's back on the job, and that the whole thing is never made public. But the fact that Joseph hired a top gun Washington, D.C., law firm from the get go signals to me that the outcome may not be so bland.
pilight



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 12:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Joseph fired

https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/machelle-joseph-fired-georgia-tech/hH8W6QvPduR8ItGgzXvQ4N/



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 1:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, one thing seems pretty certain: she wasn't fired for having a poor won-loss record.
pilight



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 1:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://ramblinwreck.com/georgia-tech-dismisses-joseph/

Quote:
A final report on the investigation was submitted by Littler Mendelson on March 20. Among the findings were that every student-athlete reported “concerns regarding alleged emotional or mental mistreatment” by Joseph, and that student-athletes described the environment around the team as “toxic,” “suffocating,” “unhealthy” and “hostile” and described Joseph’s conduct as “bullying” and “emotionally, mentally and verbally ‘abusive.’”

Additionally, several student-athletes reported allegations that, if true, may constitute violations of NCAA rules, Littler Mendelson concluded. Georgia Tech has initiated a review of these allegations with the NCAA.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 1:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wondering if this is part of the changing times. Coaches can't be as demanding/harsh as they once were. Obviously they think this was excessive. [thinking here of Swoopes attempt to coach]



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 1:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
https://ramblinwreck.com/georgia-tech-dismisses-joseph/

Quote:
Among the findings were that every student-athlete reported “concerns regarding alleged emotional or mental mistreatment” by Joseph, and that student-athletes described the environment around the team as “toxic,” “suffocating,” “unhealthy” and “hostile” and described Joseph’s conduct as “bullying” and “emotionally, mentally and verbally ‘abusive.’”
StevenHW



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 2:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Wondering if this is part of the changing times. Coaches can't be as demanding/harsh as they once were. Obviously they think this was excessive. [thinking here of Swoopes attempt to coach]


That’s exactly what I was thinking about, in addition to another recent thread about Northern Kentucky Norse coach Camryn Whitaker.

I have to wonder if college players are getting increasingly sensitive to some coaches in recent years.



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CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 03/26/19 2:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
https://ramblinwreck.com/georgia-tech-dismisses-joseph/

Quote:
A final report on the investigation was submitted by Littler Mendelson on March 20. Among the findings were that every student-athlete reported “concerns regarding alleged emotional or mental mistreatment” by Joseph, and that student-athletes described the environment around the team as “toxic,” “suffocating,” “unhealthy” and “hostile” and described Joseph’s conduct as “bullying” and “emotionally, mentally and verbally ‘abusive.’”

Additionally, several student-athletes reported allegations that, if true, may constitute violations of NCAA rules, Littler Mendelson concluded. Georgia Tech has initiated a review of these allegations with the NCAA.


As an aside, Littler Mendelson is my former law firm.


readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 6:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
pilight wrote:
https://ramblinwreck.com/georgia-tech-dismisses-joseph/

Quote:
A final report on the investigation was submitted by Littler Mendelson on March 20. Among the findings were that every student-athlete reported “concerns regarding alleged emotional or mental mistreatment” by Joseph, and that student-athletes described the environment around the team as “toxic,” “suffocating,” “unhealthy” and “hostile” and described Joseph’s conduct as “bullying” and “emotionally, mentally and verbally ‘abusive.’”

Additionally, several student-athletes reported allegations that, if true, may constitute violations of NCAA rules, Littler Mendelson concluded. Georgia Tech has initiated a review of these allegations with the NCAA.


As an aside, Littler Mendelson is my former law firm.



I sure wish Duke had used the firm instead of conducting an in-house sham of an investigation on JPM. I expect the results of the investigation would have been WAY WAY different.



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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 6:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Let's see what happens when Joseph's attorneys fire back.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 6:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's not like Joseph was new. She's been there for 16 years. Where were these allegations the previous 15 years? It goes from none to every player unanimously termed her abusive? This isn't like Swoopes who had only been at Loyola for 3 years with basically one group of players.

This really strains credulity. As a lawyer who has done many internal investigations over my 40 year career, this just doesnt add up.

I understand Joseph was intense. You could see that on the sidelines. But this "every player" considered her a monster seems a bit strained.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 6:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
It's not like Joseph was new. She's been there for 16 years. Where were these allegations the previous 15 years? It goes from none to every player unanimously termed her abusive? This isn't like Swoopes who had only been at Loyola for 3 years with basically one group of players.

This really strains credulity. As a lawyer who has done many internal investigations over my 40 year career, this just doesnt add up.

I understand Joseph was intense. You could see that on the sidelines. But this "every player" considered her a monster seems a bit strained.


For once I agree with you, Art.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 7:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would like to know what the questions were and how they were put to the student athletes. There are a lot of way to make the data/conclusions appear the way you want them to...

And I don't mean to imply the charges are all false either. I have no personal knowledge of the situation, but it does raise some antennae. It will indeed be interesting to see how it plays out.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 7:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Let's see what happens when Joseph's attorneys fire back.


If they fire back, it will be a lawsuit claiming that her firing for bullying players and staff was really a pretext for sexual discrimination against Joseph. If Joseph is a lesbian or a member of some other minority group, they will claim she was discriminated against on those bases too.

Now we know why Joseph had a prominent me-too law firm hired even before she was put on leave. She obviously knew that players and staff had been complaining about her conduct and anticipated that disciplinary action would ensue.
summertime blues



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 8:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if the reason the two players were kept behind was to try to coerce them to go along wth everyone else (which still seems fishy—it was unanimous? I doubt that.) and they left because they refused to and were threatened in some way. Just a thought.



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mikeyc22



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 8:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.11alive.com/article/sports/georgia-tech-biggest-excerpts-from-the-machelle-joseph-investigation-prior-to-her-dismissal/85-5f09a93f-3b1a-40fb-ad91-4b465e7566fb


Coyotes



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 9:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Statement from MaChelle Joseph's attorney Lisa Banks: “Tonight, Georgia Tech chose to release its ‘Confidential Investigation Report’ regarding Coach MaChelle Joseph. The unnecessary release of this report is further retaliation against Coach Joseph and is purely designed ...
to further humiliate her and undermine her reputation. As we have previously stated, the allegations in this report are false or completely taken out of context. Moving forward, Coach Joseph will pursue all legal avenues available to redress the harm caused ..
by her unlawful termination and the release of this report. Tomorrow morning, we will be releasing Coach Joseph’s response to the ‘Confidential Investigation Report.’”

Per Michelle V.

https://twitter.com/MechelleV/status/1110723025446551554


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 9:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So she coached there for 16 years and they spoke to a whopping FOUR former players? And they think this was a thorough review?

Obviously Joseph had a falling out with her current set of players. Anyone ever see Arthur Miller's play "The Crucible" performed? That sprung to mind thinking about this situation. I wonder which of her players assumed the role of Abigail.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/26/19 10:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Georgia Tech women's hoops: Three assistants, one staffer fired after MaChelle Joseph probe

Quote:
The major changes surrounding the Georgia Tech women's basketball program didn't end with head coach MaChelle Joseph getting fired.

On Tuesday night, the school also dismissed assistants Mark Simons (acting head coach), Sasha Palmer and Jonneshia Pineda from the program.

For his subsequent teleconference with the media, Georgia Tech athletics director Dr. Todd Stansbury also announced that team psychologist Dr. Belen Gutter had been removed from any future association with the women's team.

Dr. Gutter was prominently mentioned in the release of the independent investigative report on Joseph, which 11Alive News acquired on Tuesday, via the Open Records Act.
taropatch



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PostPosted: 03/27/19 1:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wow! After reading Glenn's last link, it appears the toxic atmosphere was as awful as Bobby Knight stuff without the physical abuse (choking, kicking, etc.) How this behavior was suppressed for 16 years is mind-boggling. I guess it was let the story blow up in their (GaTech's) face to avoid a mass mutiny?


Randy



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PostPosted: 03/27/19 7:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Joseph fired

https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/machelle-joseph-fired-georgia-tech/hH8W6QvPduR8ItGgzXvQ4N/


Quote:
Kendra Davis, the mother of former Tech star Kaela Davis, said that Joseph “is passionate. She’s not a shrinking violet, that’s for sure, but she’s in not in any way abusive. No way.”


Then again Kaela left early......


Carol Anne



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PostPosted: 03/27/19 7:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"There are a lot of questions still to be asked and answered. Again, this report gives no indication of whether there were consistent issues throughout MaChelle Joseph's career. There are fewer pages in the report than years she spent at Georgia Tech."

https://twitter.com/MechelleV/status/1110696223449718784


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