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Carol Anne
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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 Posted: 03/04/19 11:14 am ::: Georgia Tech: what the heck? |
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Tech women’s basketball grad assistant fired in wake of MaChelle Joseph leave
A Georgia Tech women’s basketball graduate assistant said she was fired by the school on Friday for not following instructions to the staff to not have private conversations with team members in the wake of coach MaChelle Joseph being put on leave.
Antonia Peresson, who played for the Yellow Jackets for four seasons and graduated this past May with a degree in business administration, had been a graduate manager for the team since August. An athletic department spokesman confirmed that Peresson is no longer with the program.
...[Coach Machelle] Joseph was put on leave by the athletic department on Wednesday for a “pending personnel matter.” Assistant coach Mark Simons was appointed acting head coach in her place. On Thursday, an attorney for Joseph said in a statement that the coach had not been given a reason for being placed on leave and asserted that the school was retaliating against her for raising gender-equity issues in the athletic department.”
https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/georgia-tech-women-basketball-grad-assistant-fired/zs0bD15Sq5ZXxka4bUX4YJ/
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huskiemaniac
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 1049
Location: NE CT
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| Posted: 03/04/19 3:51 pm ::: |
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| Wrambling Wreck...i hope MJ gets reinstated and restitution should her counsel be accurate.
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Carol Anne
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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Carol Anne
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/19 7:16 pm ::: |
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| In most states it is illegal to suspend someone without giving them a reason, but GA is what my late ex called a "right to slave" state so who knows. I'm glad MaChelle has retained an attorney.It is also weird that two starting players were not allowed to go on the road trip as well. Something stinks of fish here.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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BallState1984
Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 1892
Location: Halfway between Muncie and West Lafayette
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| Posted: 03/05/19 7:45 am ::: |
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| Remember Joseph was a major player in the Linn Dunn drama in West Lafayette. I am thinking the apple did not fall far from the tree and we are seeing a repeat.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/05/19 11:11 am ::: |
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| Tech is acting very oddly, however. And you're assuming guilt by association.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 03/05/19 11:34 am ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| Tech is acting very oddly, however. And you're assuming guilt by association. |
Tech is acting oddly, but MJ had major issues at Purdue. I am surprised she has made it this far to be honest.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
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| Posted: 03/05/19 11:37 am ::: |
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| This is a situation that is regrettable. Georgia Tech may be acting responsibly by releasing as little information publicly as possible. Joseph, through her attorney, is making this public and obviously portraying her in the best light. I have no idea what the circumstances are so I have no idea who is right or wrong (and I wouldn't be surprised if there is blame for both sides. But I feel bad for the players to have this happen near the end of the season when they had a real shot at the NCAA tournament.
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crispyten
Joined: 02 Jul 2014
Posts: 36
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: 03/06/19 9:04 pm ::: |
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I have had Georgia Tech WCBB season tickets since McCamish Pavillion opened about six to eight years ago. We have a group of season ticket holders - Row 6 - nobody understands what's going on.
I am not all that upset that MaChelle Joseph will not be coaching for the ACC tournament. Mark Simons is an experienced coach and I'm sure he will do a fine job. I am very upset that two of Tech's best players have missed the last two regular season games and I fear they will miss the tournament.
Francesca Pan was the 2016-2017 ACC Freshman of the Year and has played more minutes, more games than anyone else on the squad. She led the team in scoring last year and is second this year (following this year's ACC FOY, Elizabeth Balogun).
Kierra Fletcher, starting point guard, was on last year's All ACC Freshman Team and has played 31.6 minutes per game, more than anyone on the team this year up until last week.
Tech played Miami a close game last Thursday without Pan and Fletcher. Miami pulled ahead late in the game and won 69-56.
Tech led Florida State for three quarters Sunday, went cold, and scored only four points in the fourth quarter and lost 64-55.
Sad Event: Sunday was Senior Day. We have one senior on the team who has played probably less than 40 minutes in all games this year. She is very popular with her teammates and the fans. Tech players have a tradition of staying after all games, (win or lose), going up into the stands, greeting, hugging, chatting with fans. Sunday, they left the floor immediately. Martine did not get to say a proper "Goodbye" on her last appearance at McCamish.
Early in the season, someone on this board asked why Kaylan Pugh was not on the roster. I didn't have an answer then. Sunday, Kaylan was presented as a senior and I believe they said she would graduate this spring. She has one more year of eligibility left. Before the season starts, season ticket holders are invited to a function (team practice, plus usually a picnic) with a chance to meet players and quiz coaches. Coach Joseph made a statement that went something like this: 'Some of you have noticed that Kaylan Pugh is not at practice today. We hope to have her back on the team at some point; it may be next month, next semester, next year; we don't know when, but we hope to have her back.' I don't have a great memory and I'm not sure I clearly heard every thing she said. I'm hoping Kaylan will be back next year as a graduate student even though she did participate in Senior Day activities.
Sorry for the length. I don't come on here all that often.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 03/06/19 10:56 pm ::: |
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| Quote: |
Kierra Fletcher and Francesca Pan, two of Georgia Tech's top four scorers, left the team at the same time Joseph was forced out.
Assistant coach Mark Simons, serving as acting head coach, told The Associated Press on Tuesday Fletcher and Pan made the decisions to leave the team.
"We've had no contact with them," Simons said when asked about Fletcher and Pan. "We're told that they're fine. It was a personal decision on their part and that's about it." |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2019/03/05/joseph-still-suspended-as-georgia-tech-clings-to-ncaa-hopes/39154829/
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 03/07/19 12:19 am ::: |
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Yikes
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 03/07/19 12:29 am ::: |
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| very sad. Whatever the reason with a coach. It's a huge deal to the kids involved. Timing obviously terrible.
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If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 03/07/19 1:39 am ::: |
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So let's review:
MaChelle Joseph, the winningest coach in GaTech history, is summarily suspended for a "personnel" matter.
Virtually immediately, she is represented by one of the most notorious sexual discrimination/me-too law firms in Washington, DC -- the same firm that represented Christine Blasey Ford.
At the same time, two players simultaneously "make decisions" to quit the team during the final lap of the competitive ACC season.
The interim coach apologizes for being pledged to silence on the whole affair, and a graduate assistant is summarily fired for having "private talks" with players about some aspect of the secret matter.
There are some serious pancakes on the griddle here. |
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 03/07/19 3:00 am ::: |
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This whole situation, especially the Peresson firing, just reeks of coverup. What logical reason could an athletic department have for forbidding a coaching staff from having private conversations with student athletes (and is that even legal? Seems like a violation of civil liberties to me) unless they knew they were in the wrong.
Someone at GT is going down, and methinks it's not Joseph.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/07/19 11:34 am ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| At the same time, two players simultaneously "make decisions" to quit the team during the final lap of the competitive ACC season. |
Thank you for the succinct summary, Glenn! I believe the quoted passage above could be the salient point in this entire matter.
Did these two players decide to leave the Georgia Tech WBB team...and their doing so prompted the university to put MaChelle Joseph on administrative leave (university's characterization) or suspend (Joseph's characterization, through her attorney) her for a "pending personal matter"?
Did these two players decide to leave the team in response to Georgia Tech putting MaChelle Joseph on administrative leave (university's characterization) or suspending (Joseph's characterization, through her attorney) for a "pending personal matter"?
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/07/19 11:42 am ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
This whole situation, especially the Peresson firing, just reeks of coverup. What logical reason could an athletic department have for forbidding a coaching staff from having private conversations with student athletes (and is that even legal? Seems like a violation of civil liberties to me) unless they knew they were in the wrong.
Someone at GT is going down, and methinks it's not Joseph. |
^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^
This is what I've been thinking right along. The whole thing stinks of rotten fish.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 03/07/19 12:50 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| At the same time, two players simultaneously "make decisions" to quit the team during the final lap of the competitive ACC season. |
Thank you for the succinct summary, Glenn! I believe the quoted passage above could be the salient point in this entire matter.
Did these two players decide to leave the Georgia Tech WBB team...and their doing so prompted the university to put MaChelle Joseph on administrative leave (university's characterization) or suspend (Joseph's characterization, through her attorney) her for a "pending personal matter"?
Did these two players decide to leave the team in response to Georgia Tech putting MaChelle Joseph on administrative leave (university's characterization) or suspending (Joseph's characterization, through her attorney) for a "pending personal matter"? |
I agree with you, Cam, and believe you have parsed the two most logical interpretation questions. I'll speculate on which one is more likely at the end.
But first let me back up. This whole string of events is unprecedented, but the "quitting" of two starters is the most unprecedented (or salient) element of all.
Rare, but I do recall some coach suspension/leave cases, such as Bill Gibbons at Holy Cross.
It's not surprising that a school would want to keep investigations confidential, especially on medical or other personal matters, but I've never heard of a basketball employee being fired for talking about the matter "to players". By the way, who were the players the grad assistant talked to: the departed players or the remaining players?
It's not surprising that a fired woman would later hire a lawyer, but the speed with which a prominent, out-of-state women's rights law firm appeared on the scene, at about the same time as Joseph's mere "suspension" or "leave" was announced, suggests that Joseph had been lawyer shopping for some sort of serious matter she knew was in in process even before the public announcement.
Finally, we get to the element I find the most unprecedented: the quitting of two starters (or even just one) for no apparent reason during the climax of the season. We've seen players leave for injury, academic problems, violations of rules, homesickness, end-of-semester transfer -- but just to quit mid-season for no stated reason! This highly unusual event must be related to Joseph's suspension.
As to Cam's question regarding which is the chicken or egg, I'd speculate that it's less likely that the players quit as some sort of protest reaction to Joseph's suspension/leave. It seems more likely to me that action was taken on Joseph when the administration found out that two players had quit, or were about to quit, or were threatening to quit. That just seems to be a more logical sequence of human behaviors. |
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/07/19 1:03 pm ::: |
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| I know it seems *logical*, Occam's razor and all that, but Joseph's hiring of that particular law firm, with its specialty being what it is, just throws a wedge into your reasoning. It just doesn't add up.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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BamaEd
Joined: 11 May 2014
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 03/07/19 3:19 pm ::: |
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| BallState1984 wrote: |
| Remember Joseph was a major player in the Linn Dunn drama in West Lafayette. I am thinking the apple did not fall far from the tree and we are seeing a repeat. |
What Lin Dunn drama?
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/07/19 3:40 pm ::: |
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| BamaEd wrote: |
| BallState1984 wrote: |
| Remember Joseph was a major player in the Linn Dunn drama in West Lafayette. I am thinking the apple did not fall far from the tree and we are seeing a repeat. |
What Lin Dunn drama? |
That was about recruiting, IIRC....but it’s been a long time and I’ve probably forgotten stuff.
I still think it may be unlawful to suspend someone—or “place them on administrative leave” as GT so delicately puts it—without telling them why.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/07/19 4:41 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| I still think it may be unlawful to suspend someone—or “place them on administrative leave” as GT so delicately puts it—without telling them why. |
It is not unlawful -- or likely is not unlawful -- to place MaChelle Joseph on administrative leave without giving the specifics of the reasons for doing so, other than to see it is as a result of an investigation into a personnel matter.
As a preliminary matter, Georgia recognizes the doctrine of employment at will. In the absence of a written contract of employment for a defined duration, a Georgia employer may terminate an employee for good cause, bad cause, or no cause at all, so long as it is not an illegal cause.
As Georgia Tech notes in its "General Work Rules" policy (Policy 5.9), Georgia is an employment at will state. Cause is not necessary to terminate employment.
While a suspension without pay at Georgia Tech is considered disciplinary in nature, only classified employees have appeal rights. As part of classified service, the employee must be given notice and opportunity to respond before GaTech can effect disciplinary action (again, for covered employees/classified service).
But Georgia Tech has characterized this as "administrative leave" for a pending personnel matter, not a suspension.
Per Georgia Tech's Human Resources Administrative Practice Manual ([urlhttps://www.usg.edu/hr/manual/cooperation_in_internal_investigation]"Policy on Cooperation in Internal Investigations"[/url]), an investigator must assure that the investigation provides for due process. In addition, the policy states:
Once a complaint or allegation is received, the investigator should notify the accused as soon as practical. The time frame of the notification will vary depending on the necessity to gather and/or clarify facts prior to the accused being approached. Additionally, the notification could be delayed in order to protect everyone involved, evidence, etc.
The accused should be given an opportunity to present his/her position relating to the allegation(s). At times, it may be necessary for this to occur in more than one sitting.
That being said, this is the HR Administrative Practice Manual, not a contract of employment. And MaChelle Joseph is not a classified employee at Georgia Tech, but an FLSA-exempt employee working under the terms of an employment contract.
Unfortunately, I was not able to locate a copy of MaChelle Joseph's contract to see what provisions it might contain regarding administrative leave and/or suspension.
That being said, it is quite possible that MaChelle Joseph was placed on administrative leave and was simply told that it was a "personnel" matter. If a complaint was made and the complainant referenced incredibly serious allegations and a preliminary interview/investigation had started, it would not be out of the ordinary to to place an employee on administrative leave pending the results of the investigation.
And she may not be told specifics of the allegations/complaint/investigation until she herself is interviewed or, if she is not interviewed, the investigation is concluded.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 03/07/19 4:51 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| BamaEd wrote: |
| BallState1984 wrote: |
| Remember Joseph was a major player in the Linn Dunn drama in West Lafayette. I am thinking the apple did not fall far from the tree and we are seeing a repeat. |
What Lin Dunn drama? |
That was about recruiting, IIRC....but it’s been a long time and I’ve probably forgotten stuff.
I still think it may be unlawful to suspend someone—or “place them on administrative leave” as GT so delicately puts it—without telling them why. |
Um, there was so much. A lot of it was off the court stuff and just plain weird. Let's just say a tree was involved at one point lol.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/07/19 5:07 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| I still think it may be unlawful to suspend someone—or “place them on administrative leave” as GT so delicately puts it—without telling them why. |
It is not unlawful -- or likely is not unlawful -- to place MaChelle Joseph on administrative leave without giving the specifics of the reasons for doing so, other than to see it is as a result of an investigation into a personnel matter.
As a preliminary matter, Georgia recognizes the doctrine of employment at will. In the absence of a written contract of employment for a defined duration, a Georgia employer may terminate an employee for good cause, bad cause, or no cause at all, so long as it is not an illegal cause.
As Georgia Tech notes in its "General Work Rules" policy (Policy 5.9), Georgia is an employment at will state. Cause is not necessary to terminate employment.
While a suspension without pay at Georgia Tech is considered disciplinary in nature, only classified employees have appeal rights. As part of classified service, the employee must be given notice and opportunity to respond before GaTech can effect disciplinary action (again, for covered employees/classified service).
But Georgia Tech has characterized this as "administrative leave" for a pending personnel matter, not a suspension.
Per Georgia Tech's Human Resources Administrative Practice Manual ([urlhttps://www.usg.edu/hr/manual/cooperation_in_internal_investigation]"Policy on Cooperation in Internal Investigations"[/url]), an investigator must assure that the investigation provides for due process. In addition, the policy states:
Once a complaint or allegation is received, the investigator should notify the accused as soon as practical. The time frame of the notification will vary depending on the necessity to gather and/or clarify facts prior to the accused being approached. Additionally, the notification could be delayed in order to protect everyone involved, evidence, etc.
The accused should be given an opportunity to present his/her position relating to the allegation(s). At times, it may be necessary for this to occur in more than one sitting.
That being said, this is the HR Administrative Practice Manual, not a contract of employment. And MaChelle Joseph is not a classified employee at Georgia Tech, but an FLSA-exempt employee working under the terms of an employment contract.
Unfortunately, I was not able to locate a copy of MaChelle Joseph's contract to see what provisions it might contain regarding administrative leave and/or suspension.
That being said, it is quite possible that MaChelle Joseph was placed on administrative leave and was simply told that it was a "personnel" matter. If a complaint was made and the complainant referenced incredibly serious allegations and a preliminary interview/investigation had started, it would not be out of the ordinary to to place an employee on administrative leave pending the results of the investigation.
And she may not be told specifics of the allegations/complaint/investigation until she herself is interviewed or, if she is not interviewed, the investigation is concluded. |
Oh yes...because Georgia is a “right to work”, or as my late ex would have said, a “right to slave” state. So an employer can do anything they damn well please to you, and you are just SOL.
Funny, that, because Tennessee is also one of those states, but I was once suspended from a job without being told why, and when I spoke to my lawyer, he made a couple of strategic phone calls and the decision was reversed. I ended up leaving that job on my own terms not long thereafter, but the person who suspended me was fired shortly after that for personnel matters having nothing to do with me, and less than a year after that was fired from another agency for destroying documents, which makes me wonder in retrospect about why they thought they could suspend me and get away with it.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
Last edited by summertime blues on 03/07/19 10:31 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Speebs56
Joined: 19 Aug 2015
Posts: 228
Location: Orange county, CA
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| Posted: 03/07/19 5:10 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| At the same time, two players simultaneously "make decisions" to quit the team during the final lap of the competitive ACC season. |
Thank you for the succinct summary, Glenn! I believe the quoted passage above could be the salient point in this entire matter.
Did these two players decide to leave the Georgia Tech WBB team...and their doing so prompted the university to put MaChelle Joseph on administrative leave (university's characterization) or suspend (Joseph's characterization, through her attorney) her for a "pending personal matter"?
Did these two players decide to leave the team in response to Georgia Tech putting MaChelle Joseph on administrative leave (university's characterization) or suspending (Joseph's characterization, through her attorney) for a "pending personal matter"? |
All the articles I've read say the issue is a "pending PERSONNEL matter" not personal matter. That might amount to the same thing, but strictly speaking, it's not the same.
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