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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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 Posted: 02/19/19 7:43 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
this is not my gig at all but i like puzzles how about
Alb Conn, Stan, Miami, Cuse
Chi ND, Miss St, Marq, Iowa
Grb Bay, Lville, NCst, SoCar
Por Or, Maryland, OrSt, Gonz |
Unless you have five ACC top four seeds, they can't be in the same region. Ditto with Or and OrSt. So maybe you could move Miami to Portland, OrSU to GRb; and NCSt to Albany.
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Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 1467
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| Posted: 02/20/19 12:17 am ::: |
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So, I'll give this a stab.
Greensboro:
1. Baylor
5. Arizona State
4. South Carolina
6. Missouri
3. Oregon State
2. NC State
Albany:
1. UConn
5. Syracuse
4. Iowa State
6. Texas A&M
3. Maryland
2. Notre Dame
Portland:
1. Oregon
5. Florida State
4. Gonzaga
6. South Dakota
3. Miami
2. Mississippi State
Chicago:
1. Louisville
5. Kentucky
4. Marquette
6. Drake
3. Iowa
2. Stanford
So, I started by putting Baylor into Greensboro as the #1 Overall Seed, and that is the region closest to them. After that, I slotted Louisville and Oregon into Chicago and Portland respectively. Unfortunately, this leaves Albany open for UConn to have it's annual home regional. As the ACC provides the biggest challenge here, I began by looking at Notre Dame and NC State as the #2 Seeds. Clearly, I am unable to put either in Chicago, so the decision becomes who do I keep in Greensboro. As the #1 Overall, Baylor, is here, I gave them North Carolina State as the weaker #2. This leaves us with the decision of how to split up Mississippi State, Stanford, and Notre Dame. Stanford can't go to Portland, so, they have to go to Louisville or Chicago. Either Notre Dame or Mississippi State should end up in Albany for a balanced bracket. As much as I want Stanford to go there for Tara to foil Geno again. This leaves Chicago for Stanford (ugh, why am I sending Tara to a repeat of last year.) Then, I recalled that Notre Dame got shipped out to Spokane last year, leaving them to go to Albany. Poor Mississippi State gets to go and have a rematch with Oregon in Portland. Yikes.
After that, it was on to the 3 seeds. Based on the committee, they believed that Iowa was the strongest of the 3 seeds, but again, with other pieces of the puzzle in play, we start with the ACC. I consider Miami's win over Louisville enough to bump them up a seed line. That being said, the only region left open for Miami is Spokane. So, the Hurricanes head west. Oregon State can't head to Chicago or Portland, leaving Albany and Greensboro open for them. It's up for some debate who the strongest #3 is based on the Beavs recent win in the Civil War, as such, I gave Scottie a gift by giving him the chance to foil Kim and force her to throw her jacket. Iowa gets shipped to Chicago as they've already played Notre Dame, leaving Maryland to tumble into Albany. The 4 seeds are practically a breeze at this point, as Gonzaga stays west, Marquette stays close to home, and Iowa State goes to Albany as this is the only region they can go to. South Carolina gets to test their mettle against Kim if both make it that far.
I went further, and down to 6 just to see what some fun matchups could be. I'd love an all-Iowa battle between Drake and Iowa, but perhaps it'd be nice to ship them elsewhere for the chance to face someone new.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/20/19 10:52 am ::: |
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| So, stat and history master Pilight, what teams ranked #1 in RPI after all games are complete on Selection Day have NOT ended up a 1 seed when brackets are announced?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 02/20/19 11:37 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| So, stat and history master Pilight, what teams ranked #1 in RPI after all games are complete on Selection Day have NOT ended up a 1 seed when brackets are announced? |
Tennessee in 2002 was #1 in RPI despite going 25-4. UConn, Vanderbilt, Oklahoma, and Duke got the #1 seeds.
That's the only one I could find. Bear in mind that the NCAA only has RPI posted for WCBB back to 2002, and I haven't found any source of RPI prior to 1996.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/20/19 12:05 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| So, stat and history master Pilight, what teams ranked #1 in RPI after all games are complete on Selection Day have NOT ended up a 1 seed when brackets are announced? |
Tennessee in 2002 was #1 in RPI despite going 25-4. UConn, Vanderbilt, Oklahoma, and Duke got the #1 seeds.
That's the only one I could find. Bear in mind that the NCAA only has RPI posted for WCBB back to 2002, and I haven't found any source of RPI prior to 1996. |
Thanks. I was curious how common or unusual that has been.
Interesting, BTW. Tenn was 25-4 and 13-1 in conference, winning the SEC regular season.
Vandy was 27-6 and 10-4 in conference, but won the SEC tournament and was the team that handed Tenn its one regular season loss. Plus, Tenn lost to unranked LSU in the SEC tourney semi finals. Kara Lawson and Michelle Snow led that Tenn team.
Still, I would guess they were not happy in Knoxville at slipping to a 2 seed.
What was Vandy's RPI rank?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 02/20/19 12:38 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| So, stat and history master Pilight, what teams ranked #1 in RPI after all games are complete on Selection Day have NOT ended up a 1 seed when brackets are announced? |
Tennessee in 2002 was #1 in RPI despite going 25-4. UConn, Vanderbilt, Oklahoma, and Duke got the #1 seeds.
That's the only one I could find. Bear in mind that the NCAA only has RPI posted for WCBB back to 2002, and I haven't found any source of RPI prior to 1996. |
Thanks. I was curious how common or unusual that has been.
Interesting, BTW. Tenn was 25-4 and 13-1 in conference, winning the SEC regular season.
Vandy was 27-6 and 10-4 in conference, but won the SEC tournament and was the team that handed Tenn its one regular season loss. Plus, Tenn lost to unranked LSU in the SEC tourney semi finals. Kara Lawson and Michelle Snow led that Tenn team.
Still, I would guess they were not happy in Knoxville at slipping to a 2 seed.
What was Vandy's RPI rank? |
Vandy was #5.
Nobody thought Tennessee was the best team in the country, of course. That season's UConn team is still referred to as the best college team ever. The Hussies didn't just start five WNBA players, they started five players who all went over 1000 points in the W and four of whom were All WNBA selections during their careers.
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: 02/21/19 12:12 pm ::: |
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I confess I was surprised when I saw Notre Dame not in the Chicago bracket.
One of the things I thought I was on top of is the seeding rules, but I confess that when I read the rules about multiple teams in the same conference, I get a little lost. The relevant rules are:
The committee will assign all four teams in each bracket
“group” (seeds 1, 16, 8, 9), (seeds 4, 13, 5, 12), (seeds 2,
15, 7, 10), (seeds 3, 14, 6, 11) to the same first-/second-
round site. The first-/second-round sites that feed into
a regional site may be in different geographic areas from
the regional.
No more than one team from a conference may be
seeded in the same grouping of four in line Nos. 1-4 in a
region, unless a conference has five or more teams
seeded in line Nos. 1-4. The other principles herein
would apply in the exception case.
Conference teams shall not meet prior to the regional
final unless a ninth team is selected from a conference.
Notre Dame and Louisville are in the same conference. Can they be placed in the same bracket or not? The third point suggests they can, as long as their matchup would be in the final (which is would be if they are 1 and 2). However, many people filling out brackets seem to follow the rule that they must be in different brackets.
A second question is why is it assumed that Baylor would be in Greensboro. Waco is closer to Chicago than to Greensboro.
Last edited by Phil on 02/21/19 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 02/21/19 12:30 pm ::: |
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| Phil wrote: |
I confess I was surprised when I saw Notre Dame not in the Chicago bracket.
One of the things I thought I was on top of is the seeding rules, but I confess that when I read the rules about multiple teams in the same conference, I get a little lost. The relevant rules are:
The committee will assign all four teams in each bracket
“group” (seeds 1, 16, 8, 9), (seeds 4, 13, 5, 12), (seeds 2,
15, 7, 10), (seeds 3, 14, 6, 11) to the same first-/second-
round site. The first-/second-round sites that feed into
a regional site may be in different geographic areas from
the regional.
No more than one team from a conference may be
seeded in the same grouping of four in line Nos. 1-4 in a
region, unless a conference has five or more teams
seeded in line Nos. 1-4. The other principles herein
would apply in the exception case.
Conference teams shall not meet prior to the regional
final unless a ninth team is selected from a conference.
Notre Dame and Louisville are in the same conference. Can they be placed in the same bracket or not? The third point suggests they can, as long as their matchup would be in the final (which is would be if they are 1 and 2). However, many people filling out brackets seem to follow the rule that they must be in different brackets.
A second question is why is it assumed that Baylor would be in Greensboro. Waco is closer to Chicgo than to Greensboro. |
Yes, they can be in the same bracket, but ONLY if 5 or more teams are selected from the ACC to be seeded along the 1-4 lines. And that is correct, they cannot meet until the regional final, thus one of the teams would have to be either a 1 or 4 while the other team would need to be a 2 or 3.
If 4 or less teams are seeded in the 1-4 range, they MUST be put in different brackets.
I could see a scenario in which case 5 of Notre Dame, Louisville, NC State, Miami, Florida State, Syracuse get seeded among the top 16 so that rule may come into play. Time will tell.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16358
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 02/21/19 12:37 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| Phil wrote: |
I confess I was surprised when I saw Notre Dame not in the Chicago bracket.
One of the things I thought I was on top of is the seeding rules, but I confess that when I read the rules about multiple teams in the same conference, I get a little lost. The relevant rules are:
The committee will assign all four teams in each bracket
“group” (seeds 1, 16, 8, 9), (seeds 4, 13, 5, 12), (seeds 2,
15, 7, 10), (seeds 3, 14, 6, 11) to the same first-/second-
round site. The first-/second-round sites that feed into
a regional site may be in different geographic areas from
the regional.
No more than one team from a conference may be
seeded in the same grouping of four in line Nos. 1-4 in a
region, unless a conference has five or more teams
seeded in line Nos. 1-4. The other principles herein
would apply in the exception case.
Conference teams shall not meet prior to the regional
final unless a ninth team is selected from a conference.
Notre Dame and Louisville are in the same conference. Can they be placed in the same bracket or not? The third point suggests they can, as long as their matchup would be in the final (which is would be if they are 1 and 2). However, many people filling out brackets seem to follow the rule that they must be in different brackets.
A second question is why is it assumed that Baylor would be in Greensboro. Waco is closer to Chicgo than to Greensboro. |
Yes, they can be in the same bracket, but ONLY if 5 or more teams are selected from the ACC to be seeded along the 1-4 lines. And that is correct, they cannot meet until the regional final, thus one of the teams would have to be either a 1 or 4 while the other team would need to be a 2 or 3.
If 4 or less teams are seeded in the 1-4 range, they MUST be put in different brackets.
I could see a scenario in which case 5 of Notre Dame, Louisville, NC State, Miami, Florida State, Syracuse get seeded among the top 16 so that rule may come into play. Time will tell. |
Even if all of those teams at seeded that highly (I doubt NC State at least), I can't imagine a scenario where Louisville and Notre Dame are the ones that get put together.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 02/21/19 1:38 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
Yes, they can be in the same bracket, but ONLY if 5 or more teams are selected from the ACC to be seeded along the 1-4 lines. And that is correct, they cannot meet until the regional final, thus one of the teams would have to be either a 1 or 4 while the other team would need to be a 2 or 3.
If 4 or less teams are seeded in the 1-4 range, they MUST be put in different brackets.
I could see a scenario in which case 5 of Notre Dame, Louisville, NC State, Miami, Florida State, Syracuse get seeded among the top 16 so that rule may come into play. Time will tell. |
Even if all of those teams at seeded that highly (I doubt NC State at least), I can't imagine a scenario where Louisville and Notre Dame are the ones that get put together. |
I would agree with that as well.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
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| Posted: 02/22/19 3:05 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
Yes, they can be in the same bracket, but ONLY if 5 or more teams are selected from the ACC to be seeded along the 1-4 lines. And that is correct, they cannot meet until the regional final, thus one of the teams would have to be either a 1 or 4 while the other team would need to be a 2 or 3.
If 4 or less teams are seeded in the 1-4 range, they MUST be put in different brackets.
I could see a scenario in which case 5 of Notre Dame, Louisville, NC State, Miami, Florida State, Syracuse get seeded among the top 16 so that rule may come into play. Time will tell. |
Even if all of those teams at seeded that highly (I doubt NC State at least), I can't imagine a scenario where Louisville and Notre Dame are the ones that get put together. |
I would agree with that as well. |
My reading of thje rule is that the top 4 teams have to be placed in separate regions, even though it is subject to different interpretations. This would mean that Louisville and ND would not be in the same region, but a fifth ACC team could be placed in the same region as a #2 or #3 seed.
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Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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| Posted: 03/04/19 7:51 pm ::: |
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1. Baylor
2. Louisville
3. Notre Dame
4. UConn
5. Oregon
6. Mississippi State
7. Stanford
8. Iowa
9. NC State
10. Maryland
11. Oregon State
12. South Carolina
13. Miami
14. Iowa State
15. Syracuse
16. Texas A&M
but...
Chicago
1. Louisville
2. Stanford
3. Maryland
4. Iowa State
Albany
1. UConn
2. Mississippi State
3. Oregon State
4. Miami of Florida
Portland:
Notre Dame
Oregon
South Carolina
Syracuse
Greensboro
Baylor
Iowa
NC State
Texas A&M
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12528
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 03/04/19 7:53 pm ::: |
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| Looks like Kara lawsons complaints of placement & path finally paid off. Baylor now has the easiest path to a F4 imo. Albany just became must see basketball. UCONN MSST Oregon State & Miami could ALL win that region.
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Marquette Fan
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Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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| Posted: 03/04/19 7:57 pm ::: |
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Poor Marquette and Gonzaga no longer in hosting range. Those are the only two teams not on the previous list.
Interesting to see Notre Dame leapfrog UConn, but still get shipped west to Portland. It's a bit tricky on the geographical standpoint here.
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Marquette Fan
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Coyotes
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 03/04/19 8:34 pm ::: |
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| Ok, so if UConn is the 4 seed, why aren't they going to Portland to play a lower seed on their home court?
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Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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| Posted: 03/04/19 8:46 pm ::: |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Ok, so if UConn is the 4 seed, why aren't they going to Portland to play a lower seed on their home court? |
They want to sell tickets in Albany. Albany is a plane ride for Notre Dame, so it’s a plane ride for them either way.
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joetro
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 334
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| Posted: 03/04/19 8:56 pm ::: |
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| Announcers kept saying ND and Louisville were identical while graphic showed 4 more top RPI wins, better SOS and a head to head win. Okay ...
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 03/04/19 9:18 pm ::: |
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| The whole thing is a joke, its like they want ND and Louisville to get better positions and ND has 3 losses and lost to an unranked team, just laughable. Sorry but Creme is in on it as he has never been that good at getting the seeds.
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 03/05/19 11:30 am ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Looks like Kara lawsons complaints of placement & path finally paid off. Baylor now has the easiest path to a F4 imo. Albany just became must see basketball. UCONN MSST Oregon State & Miami could ALL win that region. |
I agree
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: 03/05/19 11:41 am ::: |
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| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| The whole thing is a joke, its like they want ND and Louisville to get better positions and ND has 3 losses and lost to an unranked team, just laughable. Sorry but Creme is in on it as he has never been that good at getting the seeds. |
I understand your point, but it seems like a moot issue.
IF ND wins the conference tourney, they get Chicago. If not, they don't.
That would have been true if they had assigned ND to Chicago yesterday
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 03/05/19 11:47 am ::: |
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| Man, if UConn is the 4th overall #1 seed, they should have to play the 1st overall #2 seed Oregon in Portland. If the committee can go ahead and bump ND from Chicago because Louisville is higher, then this should happen as well.
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. At this point I'm hoping they can win at least two games in the BET and avoid dropping to the 8/9 seed.
. Edited to add - I'm an idiot - that's what they are in the AP poll - oops