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CNN: Jussie Smollett PAID Two Brothers to STAGE The Assault
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tfan



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 9:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi,
do you still do board moderation?


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 9:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe it's time to change the thread title



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i HATE that he did this... it’s fueling yt americas hate for us and it stifles any black people in the future from sharing their story of being a victim of a hate crime without getting push back and doubt... like why would someone do this?



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 9:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 10:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

He'll be blackballed. He won't get work again. No one in the industry will take that chance on him. He'll have pissed off too many key demographics in this country - White America/MAGAts, Black and LGBT communities, yt liberals, etc. He'll be a leper.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 10:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Genero36 wrote:
i HATE that he did this... it’s fueling yt americas hate for us and it stifles any black people in the future from sharing their story of being a victim of a hate crime without getting push back and doubt... like why would someone do this?

Yes. It is basically a loss for everyone.

Because my position from earlier remains true, we need to believe people when the come forward. But the next time someone comes forward and things "don't add up" because they just went through an unimaginable trauma and aren't acting in a certain way, this case will be pointed to as "evidence" of how they are lying. It's like the Duke Lacrosse case and how that unfailingly comes up in rape cases.

This hurts so many vulnerable people.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Genero36 wrote:
i HATE that he did this... it’s fueling yt americas hate for us and it stifles any black people in the future from sharing their story of being a victim of a hate crime without getting push back and doubt... like why would someone do this?


He’s an ACTOR! They are NOT real people. I’m being so serious here. I managed scores of them for years in the restaurant business. Did you know a charming indecipherable mostly harmless sociopath or two in high school, G? Well all of those people from all over the world come here. Talented, beautiful. But do not engage emotionally with them.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 10:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Genero36 wrote:
i HATE that he did this... it’s fueling yt americas hate for us and it stifles any black people in the future from sharing their story of being a victim of a hate crime without getting push back and doubt... like why would someone do this?

Yes. It is basically a loss for everyone.

Because my position from earlier remains true, we need to believe people when the come forward.


I don’t even know you anymore. For anyone else in this thread, maybe someone young and still impressionable, you don’t need to believe anything or anyone for any reason other than your own sound judgement and instincts which you must develop and hone in order to survive and prosper in this life. This story is a pretty good example of what can happen when the whole world casts those essential qualities of discernment aside in order to take a side politically. It’s called bias. Prejudice. We used to know what that was. Now we are encouraged to be prejudiced in order to correct power imbalances. Or some other happy horse shit flavor of the month.

Get a grip, people. We are all better than this.

I question the modern day utility of the concept of ‘belief’ or ‘believing’ anyway. Please explain when and where I need to believe someone or something. ???



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Right now, we have to worry about mainstream blacks and whites, straights and gays getting on with each other. Hate groups and a whole bunch of Hollywood assholes are out on the fringes stirring up all this discord. People have to start tuning this shit out.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 10:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One last thing. Right now, CNN has RBG and Anthony Bordain reruns on. Wow.

No. Fucking strap Bob Lemon or whatever the fuck his name is into his seat and put the fucking hot lights on his ass and let him sweat through two hours of this shit called stone cold unscripted inconvenient reality. That network owes America that and more. There has NEVER been a network news failure like CNN on this story and Lemon was the most biased manipulative shit sorry excuse for a journalist I've ever seen.

THAT is why you don't put your brain on autopilot and believe anyone and everyone who says they've been victimized.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 11:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Jussie is in any way connected to that hate letter "sent" to him that was laced with crushed Tylenol and his prints/DNA is lifted from it, trust that his career being down the drain will be the last thing he's worried about. The FBI is involved over that one and they don't play over mail fraud. It is a federal crime and I bet that's the reason he's hired a high powered defense team.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 11:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jussie Smollett 'angered and devastated' at suggestions he was involved in his attack

Quote:
Yet in a late night statement from his attorneys on Saturday, Smollett hit back at the suggestion that the incident was a hoax, and expressed incredulity that the brothers could have been involved.

“As a victim of a hate crime who has cooperated with the police investigation, Jussie Smollett is angered and devastated by recent reports that the perpetrators are individuals he is familiar with," began a statement from Smollett attorneys Todd Pugh and Victor Henderson. "He has now been further victimized by claims attributed to these alleged perpetrators that Jussie played a role in his own attack. Nothing is further from the truth and anyone claiming otherwise is lying."

“One of these purported suspects was Jussie’s personal trainer who he hired to ready him physically for a music video," the statement continued. "It is impossible to believe that this person could have played a role in the crime against Jussie or would falsely claim Jussie’s complicity.

The statement went on to say that Smollett would continue to cooperate with authorities.


https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/information-jussie-smollett-investigation-change-story-police/story?id=61117628&__twitter_impression=true



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/16/19 11:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CNN has located Jussie. He's on the northbound 405.




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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
justintyme



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 1:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:

THAT is why you don't put your brain on autopilot and believe anyone and everyone who says they've been victimized.

Spend some time volunteering with sexual assault or domestic abuse survivors, and you will see the real harm done by people not believing them. It is gutwrenching to witness someone in so much pain get called a liar by people who simply "know better".

And "knowing better" almost invariably means "didn't act in the way I would expect someone to act". "Why did she wait so long", "Why did she take a shower afterwards", "Why doesn't she remember all the details", "Why would she talk to him afterwards and act like nothing was wrong?". People make these sorts of comments all the time to suggest that someone is lying about being raped, or at least to express doubt...but yet it is actually extremely common for a woman who has been raped to do every single one of these. Simply put, people act "weird" and irrationally after suffering trauma.

This is not to say that someone couldn't actually get some red flags from someone claiming to be a victim. But not online or through second hand reports. There is simply no way to actually distinguish between the signal and the noise. But even in person, even with red flags, we have an obligation to certainty before potentially harming a vulnerable person with our words.

Take this case, the correct way to approach this was exactly how CPD did. Someone came forward and reported an assault. They considered him a victim and treated him as such. They investigated and followed the actual evidence. I am sure they likely began to have suspicions at some point, but they never speculated and continued to treat him as a victim, respecting him as such. That only changed when they had conclusive evidence otherwise.

Our obligation to each other should be the same. Let the police do their job instead of making assumptions that could have just as easily have turned out wrong. Either offer the victim support, or if someone has doubts, just say nothing at all and let the police sort it out.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 7:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:

THAT is why you don't put your brain on autopilot and believe anyone and everyone who says they've been victimized.

Spend some time volunteering with sexual assault or domestic abuse survivors, and you will see the real harm done by people not believing them. It is gutwrenching to witness someone in so much pain get called a liar by people who simply "know better".


Whelp. Didn't really want to do this and certainly not this soon, but I think we're going to have a reckoning here. So your suggestion that my opinion regarding the reliability and veracity problem in a case such as this is due to me lacking an awareness and empathy of the realities actual victims face which could be remedied by my spending time volunteering with sexual and domestic abuse survivors is an attempt to undermine my credibility on a case that is, as it turns out, vastly different than a sexual or domestic assault.

Step off the pedestal you've placed yourself on.

I don't think it's really your intent, because you're just not that calculating, but the effect of this comment is to attempt to taint my perspective as coming from a place of ignorance and inexperience. The reality is that I have a RAGING commitment to victims of both sexual assault AND domestic violence that is based on a lifetime of experience with and exposure to victims of both.

justintyme wrote:
And "knowing better" almost invariably means "didn't act in the way I would expect someone to act". "Why did she wait so long", "Why did she take a shower afterwards", "Why doesn't she remember all the details", "Why would she talk to him afterwards and act like nothing was wrong?". People make these sorts of comments all the time to suggest that someone is lying about being raped, or at least to express doubt...but yet it is actually extremely common for a woman who has been raped to do every single one of these. Simply put, people act "weird" and irrationally after suffering trauma.


Last sentence is true and I said it before you did in this thread. But again, you're attempting to skew the discussion of the case of this actor and his actions with realities inherent in instances of actual sexual assault and domestic violence. What you're doing here is disgusting. You really can't let this go without trying to turn it into a 'teaching moment' for everyone? Get over yourself, justin. And learn something about what you're capable of when a narrative you're basing an obviously very precious argument on goes south on you. You are INFLICTING actual victims of vastly different types of actual abuse with the taint and smell of what this actor cooked up because he hates Donald Trump simply because you must try anything and everything to be right. On behalf of all of those actual victims, I salute you.

Again, as I said earlier in this thread, Jussie Smollett ascribed to his attackers THE most toxic of political motivations. I think FOR you, and others, that was and REMAINS at least one thing you probably think he did right. That part was okay, huh? He said it was a modern day lynching of a gay black man in a liberal northern city by white men wearing Make America Great Hats. And now we know he likely wrote this politically toxic script, hired the actors, and sold the narrative to the entire world. People are worried that he might have damaged the credibility of victims reporting assaults? Okay. Check. He did that. But he did deep deep damage on the issue of race in America, MAGA supporters, white/black relations and trust. This guy, by his own dramatic scheming and criminal dishonesty has stirred hatred and animus and suspicion to a level that, due to Trump, due to police shootings and activist overreaches and celebrities punching downwards, was ALREADY at the breaking point for this country.

And yet you expected people who could see all of the potential toxicity playing out against a backdrop of a case with so many red flags that it should have kept YOUR MOUTHS SHUT to just sit back and not speak out? I'm telling anyone who can listen and hear me, anyone whose minds are not similarly addled due to a change in the political winds that WILL NOT LAST forever, DON'T do as these people have done and are doing. Develop your critical thinking skills and then USE THEM. Have some faith in your instincts.

And by all means, work your thoughts out here, on Rebkells, like we always have. What a ridiculous person I would be if I had shut down my thought processes and not written it down here and elsewhere. Contribute to the conversation. It matters. The world NEEDS to hear your voice and be exposed to your perspective. Speak up! Speak up! Speak up!

But yeah, you will be called on the clarity of your perspective and the quality of your analysis.

To wit:

justintyme wrote:
Let the police do their job instead of making assumptions that could have just as easily have turned out wrong.


justintyme wrote:
Since when are the MAGA dumbasses rational? I'm sure these wastes of flesh weren't pondering the demographic breakdown of Chicago as they were beating, terrorizing, and hurling racists and homophobic insults...


Ay Mate wrote:
Gotta love those Trump supporters. The entire lot are racist, homophobic, anti-everything that isn’t white. They all make me completely sick.


Luuuc wrote:
You're really going to stereotype these homophobic racist thugs as being dumbasses?
Harsh.


Genero36 wrote:
Whichever way I turn, I keep reading or hearing some supporter of that toupee fiasco say that this is a hoax.

I really and truly don't have time with these basement dwelling, undersexed, social misfit conspiracy theorists. Everything is not a fucking conspiracy! Wake the fuck up and realize how much hate and ignorance has been off the chain in the past few years because of a certain demographic's jealousy/anger about President Obama and Drumpf giving all ignorant, hateful, miserable, bitter, evil creatures a platform to be as buck and out of control as they wanna be!


mercfan3 wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
This happened in what is one of the wealthiest - if not the wealthiest - neighborhoods in Chicago. It is just of the "Magnificent Mile" and a few blocks from my office.

Scary shit.


Wealthy white boys love Donald.

Honestly, in my experience, more so than poor white boys.

The idea that Donald was ever some champion of the poor was a myth. He was a champion of the wealthy, racist and stupid.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
mercfan3



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

These were outstanding circumstances, from someone who clearly isn’t right in the head.

It is important to believe victims. We’re gonna debate that now? Seriously?

Around 2% of sexual assault accusations are false, a significantly higher percentage of assaults go unreported. Not being believed re-lives the trauma all over again. “Our own judgement” often leads to a lack of belief in the victim.

The problem here is Hollywood. It doesn’t represent the real world, and yet people think it does.

IF this man hired people to assault him, he screwed up in so many ways..and screwed over so many people..and set back movements for his own gain.

The other side of this..MAGA supporters are supporting racist, sexist, and homophobic policies. Period. End of. The discussion should have ended the moment they started defending putting children in cages. Hate crimes have risen dramatically. We literally have white power marches. It needs to be called out - because if it’s not, we can’t heal.

Whether you think it needs to be called out gently or harshly..matter of opinion..but pretending it doesn’t exist and living in a state of color blindness does nothing to help heal.



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Last edited by mercfan3 on 02/17/19 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total
pilight



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
set back movements for his own gain.


What did he expect to gain out of this?



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 10:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
set back movements for his own gain.


What did he expect to gain out of this?


I imagine promotion...



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 11:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
This story is a pretty good example of what can happen when the whole world casts those essential qualities of discernment aside in order to take a side politically. It’s called bias. Prejudice. We used to know what that was. Now we are encouraged to be prejudiced in order to correct power imbalances. Or some other happy horse shit flavor of the month.


I haven't followed this story and have almost zero interest in posting about such things anymore, but I want to acknowledge the balanced accuracy and empirical clarity of Jammer's "bullshit meter" for today's polarized society in general.
cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I haven't followed this story and have almost zero interest in posting about such things anymore, but I want to acknowledge that in today's polarized society, I hope the truly victimized in our society- MAGAmorons- enjoy their righteous vindication. Wink



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tfan



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
set back movements for his own gain.


What did he expect to gain out of this?


He is an actor and singer so publicity is good for him and publicity that gets a very sympathetic response can really benefit him.

And he strongly dislikes Trump, angrily calling him the N-word in a 2018 tweet and even wished for someone to punch him in a - 2011 - tweet.

Kamala Harris has also introduced some Senate bill about lynching, and there is speculation the rope/noose was added to give support to that bill.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 1:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:

Whelp. Didn't really want to do this and certainly not this soon, but I think we're going to have a reckoning here...

While I stand by my position on belief of victims being essential, and that social acceptance and support of them is key to their eventual physical, emotional, and mental recovery, and I don't think we are going to ever see eye to eye on the role of cynicism in these sorts of cases, I do concede that you make a very good point about the assumptions.

Looking back it seems like support for the victim bled over into making assumptions that we had no way of verifying based upon the information available. I was being hypocritical as I accused others of filling in narrative holes with the worst possible outcome while filling them in myself with my own chosen narrative, instead of taking my own advice and just waiting for the police to release their findings. That was wrong of me.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:

The other side of this..MAGA supporters are supporting racist, sexist, and homophobic policies. Period. End of.


Do any of the policies you are thinking of not have a rationale different than the one you have chosen?


Quote:
The discussion should have ended the moment they started defending putting children in cages.


The Obama administration put "children in cages". I assume they defended that internally when they did it, even though not forced to defend it externally. That whole thing about separating pre-teens from their parents came about because of a dumb judicial agreement over an ACLU lawsuit. The ACLU sued on behalf of an illegal alien. Not lying - they sued the US government on behalf of an illegal alien. She was 15 and said she had been harassed by adult men when held after being caught crossing illegally. So the judge in the case and the Clinton Administration (Ms. Flores crossed illegally in the 1980's but not settled until Clinton Administration) agreed to a decision that said no minors (even those with their parents or traveling with adults they knew - as opposed to teenage girls on their own like the plaintiff Flores) could be held more than 10 days in the same facility the adults are. Possibly that judge was hoping - as has occurred - that if children couldn't be housed together, then they would create a logistics problem that would result in them all being let go.

Quote:
Hate crimes have risen dramatically. We literally have white power marches. It needs to be called out - because if it’s not, we can’t heal.


There were also small white supremacist groups during the previous administration, and some amount of rallies were held.

July 21, 2009: Black and White Power Clash

November 12, 2012: White Supremacist Rally In North Carolina Met By Clown Counter-Protest, ‘Wife Power’ Signs

January 11, 2010: White Power USA: The Rise of Right-Wing Militias in America

December 30, 2014: The current state of white supremacist groups in the U.S.

Quote:
Whether you think it needs to be called out gently or harshly..matter of opinion..but pretending it doesn’t exist and living in a state of color blindness does nothing to help heal.



Searching hard for signs of racism or using mind reading to detect racism in every action, statement or paragraph, calling an entire party racist, claiming that racism is binary, may not be part of any solution. When the narrative of a political party is that black people are oppressed by the other party or by white people, they may actually prefer a continuation of results that aid in them keeping that narrative going. That is, African-Americans having lower income than others and inner-city black communities being poor and high crime.

Black conservative Larry Elder repeatedly says:

Quote:
To avoid poverty, one must do 3 things.

1) Finish high school.
2) Don't have a child before age twenty.
3) Get married before having a child.

Please explain how "focusing" on "race relations" encourages poor people to follow this formula?


The real problem with regard to what we call "inner cities" was that they built large housing projects that accommodated a large migration from the south (where it was said farms mechanizing reduced employment needs) - but they failed to require or encourage companies to put factories in those same areas so people could have adequate jobs in addition to their housing. To this day the amount of carrot and stick applied to companies to put factories where people are most in need is tiny. We even decided that it was OK to move factories to other countries.




Last edited by tfan on 02/17/19 6:07 pm; edited 10 times in total
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 3:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:


The problem here is Hollywood


Signing off from Rebkell's permanently now having achieved perfect harmony with mercfan3.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/17/19 3:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Malcolm X wrote:

When the narrative of a political party is that black people are oppressed by the other party or by white people, they may actually prefer a continuation of results that aid in them keeping that narrative going. That is, African-Americans having lower income than others and inner-city black communities being poor and high crime.


Wink



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
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