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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 03/18/20 12:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Ohio has postponed, likely until June. Biden is projected to win Florida. it's looking like Biden will win Illinois. Too early for Arizona.


Biden is now projected to win Arizona. A full sweep of this night's primaries.

So now there's no obvious point in Sanders staying in the race. I would've preferred Sanders over Biden, but I ultimately do understand why Blue voters are overwhelmingly wanting Biden over Sanders. Boy, was South Carolina crucial.

My question is, how does Sanders want to proceed?

Does he at some point - whether it's now, later, or even at the DNC - end up publicly voicing his support for Establishment-candidate Biden? It really depends on how much he wants to see Trump lose, which would mean attempting to unite his left/far-left base and demanding that they don't vote for Trump or vote 3rd Party like several of them did in 2016.

Or does he go down kicking and screaming by never publicly supporting Biden, maybe saying some things about him along the way, in hopes that he Sanders can run again in 2024 (assuming Trump gets re-elected)? If he goes down this path, part of his base will surely once again defect/go rogue from the Democratic party. Still, that doesn't automatically mean Trump gets re-elected. If Biden manages to get elected, then that would be the ultimate doomsday for Sanders and what'll remain of his political career - if he really cares, given that he's 78 years-young. Or maybe he fully entrusts his base in one Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who will turn 35 in October 2024 and thus be able to be elected president should she run.

Add in the current hopefully-only-once-in-a-lifetime pandemic that most of us humans find ourselves in, and we've already got ourselves one humdinger of a finish coming up for Our Lady of Perpetual Helplessness 2020.



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 03/18/20 2:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would be very surprised if Sanders didn’t endorse Biden with Trump in office. He wants Trump out and that would be enough, even if he is not pleased with Biden’s positions going far enough or Biden not tossing him any significant bones. But since Biden likely needs Bernie’s supporters to vote for him in the fall and and many are said to be “Bernie or bust” types, he should have to do something to make them (and Bernie) happy.

Even with Biden heading to victory, if there were rallies Bernie could stay in to continue to voice his message around the country and hope his positions stay in the public eye and continue to grow for future elections. But rallies are gone. I see the possibility of an April debate, but there is no date or details so probably won’t happen. Which leaves Bernie only online streaming. I suppose that could work if he changes his normal stump speech into Skype sessions with famous Democrats or “viewer call ins” or does presentations with PowerPoint charts and other professional graphics. But I don’t see people going to YouTube every few days to hear what he would say at a rally over and over.


Shades



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PostPosted: 03/18/20 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CXoW2-np8FM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 03/18/20 8:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I would be very surprised if Sanders didn’t endorse Biden with Trump in office. He wants Trump out and that would be enough, even if he is not pleased with Biden’s positions going far enough or Biden not tossing him any significant bones. But since Biden likely needs Bernie’s supporters to vote for him in the fall and and many are said to be “Bernie or bust” types, he should have to do something to make them (and Bernie) happy.

Even with Biden heading to victory, if there were rallies Bernie could stay in to continue to voice his message around the country and hope his positions stay in the public eye and continue to grow for future elections. But rallies are gone. I see the possibility of an April debate, but there is no date or details so probably won’t happen. Which leaves Bernie only online streaming. I suppose that could work if he changes his normal stump speech into Skype sessions with famous Democrats or “viewer call ins” or does presentations with PowerPoint charts and other professional graphics. But I don’t see people going to YouTube every few days to hear what he would say at a rally over and over.


He went into the convention kicking and screaming last time - despite a clear loss.

Why would his behavior change this time?

Despite an all but certain loss this time, he has had his staff and supporters start rumors about Biden's "mental decline." (Despite Bernie's physical one..) and created misleading viral videos about Biden's support for medicare and social security. His staff has also been encouraging older voters to stay home and not vote - in hopes that this will help him in primaries.

No, Bernie is going to draw it out and take it into the convention. Then him, his staff, and the bros are going to go into the convention, demanding that he should be the nominee because results aren't "real" because of the coronavirus - even though he lost prior to the national hysteria.



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sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 03/18/20 8:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CXoW2-np8FM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


thoughtful, but aren't we past that now? march 5th was soooo long ago. timing, timing, timing. last election, so many of my friends said they wanted to vote for bernie but said he couldn't win. "you just sealed his fate," i told them.

ah, well. we get what we deserve, so here we are. in a pandemic with the devil incarnate as our leader, and the names of some of the finest minds in the country (who are they? do we even know?) are nowhere to be listed on the ballot. let's wish ourselves good luck with that.



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 03/18/20 9:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:


ah, well. we get what we deserve, so here we are. in a pandemic with the devil incarnate as our leader, and the names of some of the finest minds in the country (who are they? do we even know?) are nowhere to be listed on the ballot. let's wish ourselves good luck with that.


And this is why it is important we are unified - and part of the reason why I criticize Bernie so heavily.

Again. Joe Biden was about my second to last choice for primary winner. (Not including those who never had a chance. #Tulsi). In fact, I think he's a terrible choice.

But he's not the devil incarnate. He's competent. He has a record of doing good things for people. (Although mixed, but he does have some accomplishments). Anyone really think this virus is ignored for two months if Biden was in office?

That's why the Sanders campaign is so harmful right now. They did it last time. I can literally see it in my friends who are supporters of Bernie..they're spreading this misleading information to other people. Hostility towards Biden is building amongst Sanders supporters. Just as what happened to Clinton..when she went from being a "socialist witch" to a "corporate whore" in the public sphere. All because of misleading information spread by the Sanders campaign - after Bernie had lost.

And it's scary. I can't take four more years of Trump. We've had concentration camps, and influx of conservative judges set to hold our country back 100 years, multiple international scares, a refusal to work with the world on Climate change, and now a pandemic. (And I've forgotten a lot)

God Damn, lets not do this again. Plug our noses and vote in November.



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 03/18/20 9:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
sambista wrote:


ah, well. we get what we deserve, so here we are. in a pandemic with the devil incarnate as our leader, and the names of some of the finest minds in the country (who are they? do we even know?) are nowhere to be listed on the ballot. let's wish ourselves good luck with that.


And this is why it is important we are unified - and part of the reason why I criticize Bernie so heavily.

Again. Joe Biden was about my second to last choice for primary winner. (Not including those who never had a chance. #Tulsi). In fact, I think he's a terrible choice.

But he's not the devil incarnate. He's competent. He has a record of doing good things for people. (Although mixed, but he does have some accomplishments). Anyone really think this virus is ignored for two months if Biden was in office?

That's why the Sanders campaign is so harmful right now. They did it last time. I can literally see it in my friends who are supporters of Bernie..they're spreading this misleading information to other people. Hostility towards Biden is building amongst Sanders supporters. Just as what happened to Clinton..when she went from being a "socialist witch" to a "corporate whore" in the public sphere. All because of misleading information spread by the Sanders campaign - after Bernie had lost.

And it's scary. I can't take four more years of Trump. We've had concentration camps, and influx of conservative judges set to hold our country back 100 years, multiple international scares, a refusal to work with the world on Climate change, and now a pandemic. (And I've forgotten a lot)

God Damn, lets not do this again. Plug our noses and vote in November.



Bernie endorsed (public record) , and voted for (he claimed), HRC, in 2016.



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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 03/18/20 9:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sanders has to encourage his "Bernie Bros" to vote for Biden. He didn't do that in 2016 for Clinton and a lot of his supporters didn't vote at all.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 03/18/20 12:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Even if I feel the same as the young YouTube woman above (and I do) it is IMPERATIVE that we get over ourselves and our opinions and UNITE. I am hoping that Bernie's reason for hanging in there is the hope of influencing the eventual Dem Platform.

Bernie's Bros/Whatevers need to unite: NOT liking Biden is a piss-poor reason to usher in a second term of Don the Con via apathy on voting day.

This also points to the critical selection of a VP--she may well be The Next POTUS, after Biden.



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 03/18/20 12:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
sambista wrote:


ah, well. we get what we deserve, so here we are. in a pandemic with the devil incarnate as our leader, and the names of some of the finest minds in the country (who are they? do we even know?) are nowhere to be listed on the ballot. let's wish ourselves good luck with that.


And this is why it is important we are unified - and part of the reason why I criticize Bernie so heavily.

Again. Joe Biden was about my second to last choice for primary winner. (Not including those who never had a chance. #Tulsi). In fact, I think he's a terrible choice.

But he's not the devil incarnate. He's competent. He has a record of doing good things for people. (Although mixed, but he does have some accomplishments). Anyone really think this virus is ignored for two months if Biden was in office?

That's why the Sanders campaign is so harmful right now. They did it last time. I can literally see it in my friends who are supporters of Bernie..they're spreading this misleading information to other people. Hostility towards Biden is building amongst Sanders supporters. Just as what happened to Clinton..when she went from being a "socialist witch" to a "corporate whore" in the public sphere. All because of misleading information spread by the Sanders campaign - after Bernie had lost.

And it's scary. I can't take four more years of Trump. We've had concentration camps, and influx of conservative judges set to hold our country back 100 years, multiple international scares, a refusal to work with the world on Climate change, and now a pandemic. (And I've forgotten a lot)

God Damn, lets not do this again. Plug our noses and vote in November.



Bernie endorsed (public record) , and voted for (he claimed), HRC, in 2016.


After the convention. He was dead in the water after Super Tuesday, and lost by the biggest margin in history. He literally spent all of Spring demonizing Clinton.

He then gave a half assed endorsement after the convention (in which Bros tried their damndest to ruin). While he was "stumping" on her behalf (actually, he was giving a book tour on her dime), his wife was encouraging his supporters to vote elsewhere in the general.

And he's showing signs of doing the same thing to Biden.



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Last edited by mercfan3 on 03/18/20 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 16927
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PostPosted: 03/18/20 2:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Even if I feel the same as the young YouTube woman above (and I do) it is IMPERATIVE that we get over ourselves and our opinions and UNITE. I am hoping that Bernie's reason for hanging in there is the hope of influencing the eventual Dem Platform.

Bernie's Bros/Whatevers need to unite: NOT liking Biden is a piss-poor reason to usher in a second term of Don the Con via apathy on voting day.

This also points to the critical selection of a VP--she may well be The Next POTUS, after Biden.


i think bernie's staying to influence the dem platform - one reason. i do NOT think he's doing damage to biden by staying in at this moment, and i think he'll do the right thing when it's time. he knows what we all know. the timing of his exit is key, and it must be delicate, lest he lose the faith of his young followers. he has to show them that he went to the very last mile for them.



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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8216
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PostPosted: 03/18/20 4:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
Howee wrote:
Even if I feel the same as the young YouTube woman above (and I do) it is IMPERATIVE that we get over ourselves and our opinions and UNITE. I am hoping that Bernie's reason for hanging in there is the hope of influencing the eventual Dem Platform.

Bernie's Bros/Whatevers need to unite: NOT liking Biden is a piss-poor reason to usher in a second term of Don the Con via apathy on voting day.

This also points to the critical selection of a VP--she may well be The Next POTUS, after Biden.


i think bernie's staying to influence the dem platform - one reason. i do NOT think he's doing damage to biden by staying in at this moment, and i think he'll do the right thing when it's time. he knows what we all know. the timing of his exit is key, and it must be delicate, lest he lose the faith of his young followers. he has to show them that he went to the very last mile for them.

Perhaps, but Inhave also run across way too many of his followers that are saying stupid crap on social media about how there is "no real difference between Biden and Trump", or how Biden would "pick the same SCOTUS nominees as Trump anyway". And there are those who suggest that Trump winning is actually better than Biden as four more years of his terribleness will push more people into the progressive wings. That nearly all of these people tend to be straight, white males who will walk away from four more years of Trump with their rights mostly intact should not surprise anyone.

There is something to be said for Bernie coming out early and preaching non-stop the difference between Trump and Biden to his followers and just how essential it is that Trump not win.



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 03/19/20 10:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tulsi Gabbard ends campaign, endorses Joe Biden.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/03/19/tulsi-gabbard-ends-presidential-campaign/2009989001/



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Shades



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PostPosted: 03/24/20 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bTkrEmBDJqM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 03/25/20 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The "Biden is having a mental decline" propaganda from the Sanders camp is disgusting.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 03/25/20 10:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TF5VNXZHxpE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 03/25/20 11:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
The "Biden is having a mental decline" propaganda from the Sanders camp is disgusting.


Well but it’s true. I’ve watched Biden for half my life and I don’t even think that’s required experience for evaluating the obvious decline of his mental capacity.

The idea that this is the candidate we’ve been left with, even if he defeats Trump, pretty much says that this country will remain a dysfunctional party ruled disaster for so many. I could get excited if he either picked Elizabeth Warren, the progressive superstar policy wonk, or Hillary, the ultra-qualified policy wonk who, together with a former president policy wonk with her in the White House should Joe go bye-bye, would be the perfect team for putting the government back together after Trump and his gang have dismantled it.

But that’s providing he picks either of those two and that he can get elected running against a pretty powerful looking Donald Trump who many more Americans are looking favorably upon right now due to his handling of the pandemic. Much to the chagrin of most here.

Bernie said it best. Trump will eat Biden alive in a debate. And if Trump is proven right on anything, the therapeutic treatments or that opening up parts of the economy gets out in front of the disease possibly waning with warmer weather, and the markets rebound, people get back to work, etc. people will have four more years to bitch and moan about Trump.



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Last edited by jammerbirdi on 03/25/20 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Shades



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PostPosted: 03/25/20 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/71NrGKrEgPQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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Shades



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PostPosted: 03/25/20 11:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4RQqaZ5vnr8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 03/25/20 12:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Biden is NOT up to the New And Improved Challenge that now faces any candidate, with the general election only months away.

Re: Bernie's *Radical Agenda*? In light of how government is responding to our current crisis with large dollops of 'socialism', it doesn't look so weird now, does it!?



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 03/25/20 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Biden is NOT up to the New And Improved Challenge that now faces any candidate, with the general election only months away.

Re: Bernie's *Radical Agenda*? In light of how government is responding to our current crisis with large dollops of 'socialism', it doesn't look so weird now, does it!?


Neither is Sanders. Who couldn't be bothered to show up to the Senate to work on a response Bill until called out on it. (Instead, hosting virtual rallies with musical guests..)

This was always the problem with having an 80 year old nominee. But the Sanders campaign needs to stop gaslighting with Biden.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 03/26/20 8:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xzfG7zApLT0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 03/26/20 10:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not sure whether this sexual allegation belongs here or in Me Too.

Joe Biden’s Sexual Assault Accuser Breaks Silence With Graphic Allegations - She details an assault she says occurred in 1993.

Graphic indeed!

I never heard of NewsOne, but the site bills itself as "your destination for news and information for and about Blacks in America."

In any event, the original source of the detailed sexual assault allegation is a podcast interview with the alleged victim, Tara Reade, which can be heard here:

https://soundcloud.com/katie-halper/joe-bidens-accuser-finally-tells-her-full-story
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 54268



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PostPosted: 03/26/20 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Not sure whether this sexual allegation belongs here or in Me Too.

Joe Biden’s Sexual Assault Accuser Breaks Silence With Graphic Allegations - She details an assault she says occurred in 1993.

Graphic indeed!

I never heard of NewsOne, but the site bills itself as "your destination for news and information for and about Blacks in America."

In any event, the original source of the detailed sexual assault allegation is a podcast interview with the alleged victim, Tara Reade, which can be heard here:

https://soundcloud.com/katie-halper/joe-bidens-accuser-finally-tells-her-full-story



Just remember this when the time comes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations



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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 03/26/20 11:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Most men are pigs, and almost all with power are.

Joe's no different, but he's atoned.

He's promised to give us a vice president with the most sniffable hair.
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