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Democratic Presidential Primary Candidates 2020
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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 02/04/20 1:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you're a Sanders supporter, you might see the Iowa SNAFU as part of a pattern:

Delay sending articles of impeachment, so the trial just so happens to chew up a bunch of time for Sanders right before Iowa, allowing Biden and Buttigieg crucial time to campaign unopposed.

Change the debate rules suddenly to allow Michael Bloomberg to be part of the next debate, as it becomes clear Biden is floundering and might be blown out by Sanders.

Have the DNC appoint people to key positions for the nomination that are hostile to the Sanders campaign.

Cancel the historically authoritative Des Moines Register poll just before caucus night, which almost certainly would have shown Sanders in the lead and Biden in 4th.

Slow down (and in fact, put an almost complete embargo on) caucus results, so that the media attention moves on before they are announced (to the State of the Union speech, then the Senate impeachment vote), blunting the bounce to Sanders (who probably finished 1st) and the damage to Biden (who probably finished 4th, perhaps almost 5th).



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tfan



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PostPosted: 02/04/20 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It is suspicious that first a flagship poll and then the results can’t be released. The name of the company that did the problematic app is Shadow... (they found the Nevada and Iowa Democrat parties and the Buttigieg campaign have all paid for their services). Bloomberg polling 3rd in one national poll gives an out with regard to the DNC changing the rules, but I suspect if he was pushing populist policies they would have stuck to the rules.

Sanders used to point out, to no effect, that he polled better against Trump than Clinton in early 2016. In looking at the Real Clear Politics polls of Democrat candidates versus Trump, Sanders may be slightly behind Biden versus Trump, but there are polls where he does better than Biden. Sanders is disliked by the donor class for his populist policies which puts the DNC, MSNBC and CNN against him. I think there would be more Never Sanders among the elite than there were Never Trumpers.




Last edited by tfan on 02/04/20 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
5thmantheme



Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 02/04/20 7:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

the AP is reporting the delegate count, relative to the 62% votes counted so far, as :
10 delegates Buttigieg
10 delegates Sanders
4 delegates Warren
0 delegates for Biden + Klobuchar
... but changes soon.


Remind me, how long Florida in 2000 took?
Rolling Eyes


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 02/04/20 10:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

5thmantheme wrote:
the AP is reporting the delegate count, relative to the 62% votes counted so far, as :
10 delegates Buttigieg
10 delegates Sanders
4 delegates Warren
0 delegates for Biden + Klobuchar
... but changes soon.


Remind me, how long Florida in 2000 took?
Rolling Eyes


this is just plain embarrassing. this isn't 2000, it's 2020 and we should know the results by now.



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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 02/05/20 1:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pocahontas County, IOWA
100% reporting

Candidate
Total SDEs % SDEs

1. Pete Buttigieg
102 34.0%

2. Joe Biden
66 22.0%

3. Amy Klobuchar
66 22.0%

4. Bernie Sanders
30 10.0%

5. Elizabeth Warren
24 8.0%
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 02/06/20 12:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The DNC chair says...

https://twitter.com/TomPerez/status/1225468833458245632

Quote:
Enough is enough. In light of the problems that have emerged in the implementation of the delegate selection plan and in order to assure public confidence in the results, I am calling on the Iowa Democratic Party to immediately begin a recanvass.



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Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/07/20 9:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/4chan-iowa-caucus-sabotage_n_5e3ca6d1c5b6bb0ffc0e01b9

Quote:
Right-wing backers of President Donald Trump posted the number of the Iowa caucuses reporting hotline on 4chan and encouraged flooding the lines, exacerbating problems already disrupting the caucuses, NBC and Bloomberg reported.


Trump and his supporters already being blamed for election meddling. Good practice run here by the left for blaming them in November!


CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18133
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PostPosted: 02/07/20 9:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/4chan-iowa-caucus-sabotage_n_5e3ca6d1c5b6bb0ffc0e01b9

Quote:
Right-wing backers of President Donald Trump posted the number of the Iowa caucuses reporting hotline on 4chan and encouraged flooding the lines, exacerbating problems already disrupting the caucuses, NBC and Bloomberg reported.


Trump and his supporters already being blamed for election meddling. Good practice run here by the left for blaming them in November!


Interesting how you extrapolated blaming Trump, when the article you cited did not.

Interesting that you attack Democrats for rightly pointing out that some supporters of President Trump engaged in a deliberate disruption of the Iowa election, instead of pointing out that any intentional attempt at disrupting an election is a threat to democracy, irrespective of the political leanings of the attackers.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 02/07/20 10:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cam! You presume a capacity for logic and intellect, despite continuing evidence to the contrary.... Laughing



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/07/20 11:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh said officials “don’t know anything about this,” adding: “It’s laughable that they would try to blame Trump for their own incompetence.”



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CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 02/07/20 11:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Quote:
Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh said officials “don’t know anything about this,” adding: “It’s laughable that they would try to blame Trump for their own incompetence.”


In other words, Trump's communications director accused them of blaming Trump, which Stonington_QB jumped on, when the information in the article nor the author of said article did not.


Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/07/20 1:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Quote:
Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh said officials “don’t know anything about this,” adding: “It’s laughable that they would try to blame Trump for their own incompetence.”


In other words, Trump's communications director accused them of blaming Trump, which Stonington_QB jumped on, when the information in the article nor the author of said article did not.


I didn't jump on to anything but nice try anyways. You people have been accusing Trump of election meddling for literally the last 4 years.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 02/07/20 1:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Quote:
Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh said officials “don’t know anything about this,” adding: “It’s laughable that they would try to blame Trump for their own incompetence.”


In other words, Trump's communications director accused them of blaming Trump, which Stonington_QB jumped on, when the information in the article nor the author of said article did not.


I didn't jump on to anything but nice try anyways. You people have been accusing Trump of election meddling for literally the last 4 years.


He definitely tried to meddle in the 2020 election campaign trying to use Ukraine to help smear Biden. He got caught. That’s why he got impeached.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 02/07/20 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
I didn't jump on to anything but nice try anyways. You people have been accusing Trump of election meddling for literally the last 4 years.


You posted (in your initial post, in which you referenced, linked, and quoted from the article):

Stonington_QB wrote:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/4chan-iowa-caucus-sabotage_n_5e3ca6d1c5b6bb0ffc0e01b9

Quote:
Right-wing backers of President Donald Trump posted the number of the Iowa caucuses reporting hotline on 4chan and encouraged flooding the lines, exacerbating problems already disrupting the caucuses, NBC and Bloomberg reported.


Trump and his supporters already being blamed for election meddling. Good practice run here by the left for blaming them in November!


Nowhere in the article did anyone blame Trump. But Trump's communications director accused them of blaming Trump, which you jumped on in your initial post -- a post in which you referenced, linked, and quoted from the article.

Also, your initial post referenced the Iowa caucus for the 2020 election. But your second post seems to justify the inaccuracy of information in your first post about the 2020 presidential election by referencing four years of accusations about elections from "you people."

It is curious to me how posting about accusations of election meddling from the previous four years is being used to justify your initial post about the 2020 presidential election and an accusation against President Trump that no one made, but that Trump's communications director claims was made, which you jumped on -- again, quoting you as demonstrative evidence of such.


Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/07/20 3:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
I didn't jump on to anything but nice try anyways. You people have been accusing Trump of election meddling for literally the last 4 years.


You posted (in your initial post, in which you referenced, linked, and quoted from the article):

Stonington_QB wrote:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/4chan-iowa-caucus-sabotage_n_5e3ca6d1c5b6bb0ffc0e01b9

Quote:
Right-wing backers of President Donald Trump posted the number of the Iowa caucuses reporting hotline on 4chan and encouraged flooding the lines, exacerbating problems already disrupting the caucuses, NBC and Bloomberg reported.


Trump and his supporters already being blamed for election meddling. Good practice run here by the left for blaming them in November!


Nowhere in the article did anyone blame Trump. But Trump's communications director accused them of blaming Trump, which you jumped on in your initial post -- a post in which you referenced, linked, and quoted from the article.

Also, your initial post referenced the Iowa caucus for the 2020 election. But your second post seems to justify the inaccuracy of information in your first post about the 2020 presidential election by referencing four years of accusations about elections from "you people."

It is curious to me how posting about accusations of election meddling from the previous four years is being used to justify your initial post about the 2020 presidential election and an accusation against President Trump that no one made, but that Trump's communications director claims was made, which you jumped on -- again, quoting you as demonstrative evidence of such.


Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true.

And by the way, when you say "an accusation against President Trump that no one made," are you excluding your candidates?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/andrew-yang-shifts-blame-to-trump-for-iowa-democratic-caucus-debacle

Quote:
Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang ripped President Trump after the voting app commissioned by the Iowa Democratic Party to count Democratic caucus voters experienced a technological error.

"It might be helpful to have a President and government that understand technology so this sort of thing doesn’t happen," tweeted Yang.


It would be helpful if you kept up with what the people relevant to this thread are saying before you decide to cherry pick something from the first article and just go with it. I made the mistake of assuming you were already informed. As for Howee, well... Howee has never had anything relevant to contribute to ANY topic in this forum, so his uninformed agreement with you on this subject means nothing to anyone.


Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 02/11/20 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="606" height="342" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dZTS7ue71Ag" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://youtu.be/dZTS7ue71Ag

Sunny had Klobuchar stuttering about why she declined to bring charges against police officers involved in over 2 dozen killings and how she dismissed key evidence a murder case and possibly incarcerated an innocent young black boy. I was so happy, Sunny wiped that smug smile off of her face.

And, she never answered the question. Amy is hard to watch. She speaks like slow learner. Her whole debate presentation is like she's running for Student Council. She's so basic and elementary. Happy to see ish is getting real for her so she can stop spouting and sputtering her schoolyard lines from the index cards in her jacket pocket.

“There’s more work to be done” is what they always say when they haven’t done shit to change the system. She wasn’t getting anyone’s votes anyway.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 02/11/20 8:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bennet and Yang are out

Warren probably will be tomorrow

Biden running 5th in New Hampshire Shocked



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/12/20 4:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Bennet and Yang are out

Warren probably will be tomorrow.


Noooo. No way. Except for Bernie and Biden, New Hampshire was freak. Warren certainly is in trouble. She fucked up with that accusation against Bernie. People didn't buy it and it was SO transparently intended to play the gender card against him. When she didn't shake his hand that really really backfired on her. She was tilting at the time, I know. But this stuff wobbles every which way anyway. I think that was what hurt her.

But I don't think she'll be out before Super Tuesday. Biden maybe. I told you guys he wasn't going to be the nominee!

I'm still hoping for a Bernie/Warren ticket. I want to change the world.

But... Trump is going to be very hard to beat if this economy holds up. There's no easy way out of this shit. Sad



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 02/12/20 8:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

These candidates only seem to drop out when they run out of money. I wonder if Yang's fundraising had dried up. He had a good 4Q 2019 fundraising (total campaign fundraising was $30 million which a New York Times writer said was
remarkable for an outsider), but spent most of it during the quarter (ended 2019 with $3.7 million).

His supporters wore hats that said MATH and he referred to himself as "the math guy" is his speech announcing the end of his campaign. And yet it appears he can't do basic arithmetic. While he warns of a significant lack of jobs in the future due to automation and says we will need to be ready to pay the excess workers who can't get jobs - he takes every opportunity to say immigration is not a problem and supports its continuation. Also supports keeping all of the illegal workforce. Not enough jobs, but ever more workers. The "math guy" was right to drop out.


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/12/20 9:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why should Warren stay in? Single digits in New Hampshire, right next door to her home state where she spent lots of time and money. Her poll numbers for Super Tuesday are bleak and her money has dried up.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/12/20 12:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Why should Warren stay in? Single digits in New Hampshire, right next door to her home state where she spent lots of time and money. Her poll numbers for Super Tuesday are bleak and her money has dried up.


Well. Okay. That’s daunting shit right there. And I actually can’t see her recovering. But as they said on CNN last night, she’s a superstar on the progressive left. This is too soon.

First of all, step back from the right now and remember that thinking progressive people have always had nothing but contempt for the power invested in these two small population fucking wacky white states. To have Iowa and New Hampshire take out our superstar is not something that anyone is ready for. And it would not be a good thing for democracy.

Second, Bernie is going to be the Democratic nominee. There is only one person in America, let alone the Democratic field, who ideologically and in terms of name recognition could be his running mate and that is Warren. So that creates a lot of options. They could decide that she should drop out with the agreement that she’d be right back in once the nomination is wrapped up.

But I think it’s too soon for that right now. Nobody likes this Iowa/New Hampshire bullshit except the elites and their news media. So I’m predicting she’s going to be in it for a while longer. But she’ll never get to the top of the ticket here in 2020. That’s never coming back.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/12/20 12:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
These candidates only seem to drop out when they run out of money. I wonder if Yang's fundraising had dried up. He had a good 4Q 2019 fundraising (total campaign fundraising was $30 million which a New York Times writer said was
remarkable for an outsider), but spent most of it during the quarter (ended 2019 with $3.7 million).

His supporters wore hats that said MATH and he referred to himself as "the math guy" is his speech announcing the end of his campaign. And yet it appears he can't do basic arithmetic. While he warns of a significant lack of jobs in the future due to automation and says we will need to be ready to pay the excess workers who can't get jobs - he takes every opportunity to say immigration is not a problem and supports its continuation. Also supports keeping all of the illegal workforce. Not enough jobs, but ever more workers. The "math guy" was right to drop out.


As usual, great stuff tfan. You don’t get the respect and appreciation around here you deserve.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
pilight



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PostPosted: 02/12/20 2:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The only thing that can stop Sanders from getting the nomination at this point is Warren staying in and splitting the progressive vote. If I was a way out lefty, I'd be begging her to get out now.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/12/20 2:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The only thing that can stop Sanders from getting the nomination at this point is Warren staying in and splitting the progressive vote. If I was a way out lefty, I'd be begging her to get out now.


Oh I think that deal I mentioned above is coming. But me musing over scenarios about what could happen are, to be perfectly honest at this point in my life, beyond my level of interest. Sanders is going to be the nominee. Warren will be his running mate. The election will be close. But I do think they have a chance.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
pilight



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PostPosted: 02/12/20 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Sanders is going to be the nominee. Warren will be his running mate.


I doubt she'll be his running mate. He'll be 79 years old on election day and had heart surgery just a couple of months ago. Picking another septuagenarian as running mate will scare people away. She'll get a cabinet spot if she wants one.



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