RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

The Wall
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7378



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/18/19 7:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:


Because Donald isn’t promoting “fixing parts of the fence”


Are you suggesting that the Democrats feel that the fencing that was built under Clinton and Bush is all that is needed? No one can get across anymore?

Quote:
He’s using building a giant expensive wall as a distraction.


Distraction? It wasn't a distraction to the people at his rallies. It could be argued though that because he let Ryan and McConnell put him off for almost two years it isn't that important to him. And it probably isn't - he was still going to cave this December until outrage among some pundits flipped him - other than as something to appeal to a minority of voters.

Quote:
Democrats sentiments towards border security vary. Some think there should be an upgrade in technology (a “smart wall”..technology that didn’t exist in 06) some are for easier paths to citizenship..many don’t see it as a huge issue. You are oversimplifying Democrats stances here.


My opinion is that if someone says "I am not for a wall or fence, but I am for more border security", they are actually saying "I could care less about illegal border crossings". So to me, there isn't a single Democrat who is taking a position against stopping illegal crossings at the southern border. I don't think there is any technology, absent a death laser or land mines or something else that kills people, that will stop illegal immigration better than a wall. And no one is seriously trying to make a case how drones or "laser beams" or whatever would be more effective. With the Flores decision, bring a minor (or someone close enough to claim it), and once you are over the border, you are in. Detection has become irrelevant in most cases.

Quote:
No one (not even Republicans..shh) wants this wall. It’s an expensive vanity distraction that will be ineffective.


I agree the Republicans like ILLEGAL immigration and Ryan and McConnell demonstrated it by stalling funding for almost two years. But they are supposed to. They are the party of business and the rich. Somehow (well, likely due to rich money in politics) the Democrats lost their way and decided to condone or openly support things that hurt blue collar workers and the poor like job export and illegal immigration.


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11711
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/18/19 9:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?



_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 18437



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 8:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Under Obama..

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, a majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.

Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.



_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 11923
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 1:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


Employers like TRUMP, even?? Shocked Laughing



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 457
Location: Your safe space


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Under Obama..

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, a majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.

Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


1) Illegal immigration declined under Obama due to the failing economy. That trend has reversed under President Trump due to the economic recovery, and illegal immigration is back on the rise.

2) No drug cartel is going to allow a bunch of random migrators through their tunnels. In fact they are guided AWAY from the tunnels to avoid getting shot by said cartels.

3) Nobody is saying that those who hire illegals shouldn't be punished.

4) The majority of violent offenders who are here illegally DID sneak across the border.


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11711
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 2:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Under Obama..

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, a majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.

Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


1) Illegal immigration declined under Obama due to the failing economy. That trend has reversed under President Trump due to the economic recovery, and illegal immigration is back on the rise.

2) No drug cartel is going to allow a bunch of random migrators through their tunnels. In fact they are guided AWAY from the tunnels to avoid getting shot by said cartels.

3) Nobody is saying that those who hire illegals shouldn't be punished.

4) The majority of violent offenders who are here illegally DID sneak across the border.



Are these Pew Research numbers acceptable?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

(or are they part of the Deep State conspiracy?)



_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11711
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 2:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Under Obama..

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, a majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.

Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


1) Illegal immigration declined under Obama due to the failing economy. That trend has reversed under President Trump due to the economic recovery, and illegal immigration is back on the rise.

2) No drug cartel is going to allow a bunch of random migrators through their tunnels. In fact they are guided AWAY from the tunnels to avoid getting shot by said cartels.

3) Nobody is saying that those who hire illegals shouldn't be punished.

4) The majority of violent offenders who are here illegally DID sneak across the border.



You realize the economic recovery began during the Obama presidency, right, and that the recovery has merely continued the last2 yrs? Laughing



_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 457
Location: Your safe space


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 2:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Under Obama..

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, a majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.

Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


1) Illegal immigration declined under Obama due to the failing economy. That trend has reversed under President Trump due to the economic recovery, and illegal immigration is back on the rise.

2) No drug cartel is going to allow a bunch of random migrators through their tunnels. In fact they are guided AWAY from the tunnels to avoid getting shot by said cartels.

3) Nobody is saying that those who hire illegals shouldn't be punished.

4) The majority of violent offenders who are here illegally DID sneak across the border.



You realize the economic recovery began during the Obama presidency, right, and that the recovery has merely continued the last2 yrs? Laughing


Except that it didn't.


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11711
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 2:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Under Obama..

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, a majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.

Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


1) Illegal immigration declined under Obama due to the failing economy. That trend has reversed under President Trump due to the economic recovery, and illegal immigration is back on the rise.

2) No drug cartel is going to allow a bunch of random migrators through their tunnels. In fact they are guided AWAY from the tunnels to avoid getting shot by said cartels.

3) Nobody is saying that those who hire illegals shouldn't be punished.

4) The majority of violent offenders who are here illegally DID sneak across the border.



You realize the economic recovery began during the Obama presidency, right, and that the recovery has merely continued the last2 yrs? Laughing


Except that it didn't.



Show me.



_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 457
Location: Your safe space


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 2:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Under Obama..

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, a majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.

Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


1) Illegal immigration declined under Obama due to the failing economy. That trend has reversed under President Trump due to the economic recovery, and illegal immigration is back on the rise.

2) No drug cartel is going to allow a bunch of random migrators through their tunnels. In fact they are guided AWAY from the tunnels to avoid getting shot by said cartels.

3) Nobody is saying that those who hire illegals shouldn't be punished.

4) The majority of violent offenders who are here illegally DID sneak across the border.



Are these Pew Research numbers acceptable?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

(or are they part of the Deep State conspiracy?)


Yes, they ARE acceptable. Your link only proves what I'm saying to be accurate. The numbers on that page show a precipitous dropoff going into 2016. If you look HERE, you'll see that those numbers have climbed since 2016:

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/

Nice job proving me right Laughing


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 58906
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 3:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


That would be a good thing, since it's not a real issue



_________________
On Christmas Day, the Gingerbread Man said, ‘Ladyfingers, be my wife.’
Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 457
Location: Your safe space


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 3:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Under Obama..

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, a majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.

Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


1) Illegal immigration declined under Obama due to the failing economy. That trend has reversed under President Trump due to the economic recovery, and illegal immigration is back on the rise.

2) No drug cartel is going to allow a bunch of random migrators through their tunnels. In fact they are guided AWAY from the tunnels to avoid getting shot by said cartels.

3) Nobody is saying that those who hire illegals shouldn't be punished.

4) The majority of violent offenders who are here illegally DID sneak across the border.



You realize the economic recovery began during the Obama presidency, right, and that the recovery has merely continued the last2 yrs? Laughing


Except that it didn't.



Show me.


Here you go:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/07/27/trumps-economic-scorecard-18-months-into-his-presidency/#31da3b1e1283
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obama-trump-booming-economy/

How many more links would you like me to provide? 4.1% GDP growth rate. What was the best year of GDP growth rate under Obama again? 2% right?


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11711
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Under Obama..

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, a majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.

Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


1) Illegal immigration declined under Obama due to the failing economy. That trend has reversed under President Trump due to the economic recovery, and illegal immigration is back on the rise.

2) No drug cartel is going to allow a bunch of random migrators through their tunnels. In fact they are guided AWAY from the tunnels to avoid getting shot by said cartels.

3) Nobody is saying that those who hire illegals shouldn't be punished.

4) The majority of violent offenders who are here illegally DID sneak across the border.



Are these Pew Research numbers acceptable?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

(or are they part of the Deep State conspiracy?)


Yes, they ARE acceptable. Your link only proves what I'm saying to be accurate. The numbers on that page show a precipitous dropoff going into 2016. If you look HERE, you'll see that those numbers have climbed since 2016:

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/

Nice job proving me right Laughing



So then the tfan theory is shot to shit, isn't it. Laughing



_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.


Last edited by cthskzfn on 02/19/19 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11711
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Under Obama..

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, a majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.

Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


1) Illegal immigration declined under Obama due to the failing economy. That trend has reversed under President Trump due to the economic recovery, and illegal immigration is back on the rise.

2) No drug cartel is going to allow a bunch of random migrators through their tunnels. In fact they are guided AWAY from the tunnels to avoid getting shot by said cartels.

3) Nobody is saying that those who hire illegals shouldn't be punished.

4) The majority of violent offenders who are here illegally DID sneak across the border.



You realize the economic recovery began during the Obama presidency, right, and that the recovery has merely continued the last2 yrs? Laughing


Except that it didn't.



Show me.


Here you go:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/07/27/trumps-economic-scorecard-18-months-into-his-presidency/#31da3b1e1283
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obama-trump-booming-economy/

How many more links would you like me to provide? 4.1% GDP growth rate. What was the best year of GDP growth rate under Obama again? 2% right?



The trends of the Obama recovery continue. Thanks for the proof. Laughing



_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 457
Location: Your safe space


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 3:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Under Obama..

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, a majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.

Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


1) Illegal immigration declined under Obama due to the failing economy. That trend has reversed under President Trump due to the economic recovery, and illegal immigration is back on the rise.

2) No drug cartel is going to allow a bunch of random migrators through their tunnels. In fact they are guided AWAY from the tunnels to avoid getting shot by said cartels.

3) Nobody is saying that those who hire illegals shouldn't be punished.

4) The majority of violent offenders who are here illegally DID sneak across the border.



Are these Pew Research numbers acceptable?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

(or are they part of the Deep State conspiracy?)


Yes, they ARE acceptable. Your link only proves what I'm saying to be accurate. The numbers on that page show a precipitous dropoff going into 2016. If you look HERE, you'll see that those numbers have climbed since 2016:

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/

Nice job proving me right Laughing



So then the tfan theory is shot to shit, isn't it. Laughing


Sorry, I didn't read it.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7378



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 4:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
tfan- has the number of illegal immigrants declined over the past decade?


Unfortunately, it is impossible to know exactly how many illegal immigrants are in the USA. And the United States government does not even try and estimate it. They are perhaps reluctant to give figures for how many millions of people they are allowing to break immigration law. The only organization I am aware of that tries to estimate the number is Pew Research, and they seems to focus more on "border crossing illegal aliens" than "visa overstay" illegal aliens. They even try and give an estimate for how many illegal aliens came/left via the southern border each year. Pew says they use US and Mexican census data and Mexican household surveys to make these yearly estimates. Yet census data only comes around every decade and I doubt if Mexico does yearly household surveys with questions related to illegal immigration to the USA. And if an entire household went illegally to the USA, I don't think they would show up in a Mexican survey. And they don't say anything about looking at Central American data.

But in any event, Pew Research claims that the number of illegal aliens in 2016 was lower than what it was in 2006. Their estimated peak came right before the Great Recession and a year after Congress passed funding for additional fencing.



tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7378



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 4:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:

Tfan, you know they have tunnels now, right? Also, the majority of illegal immigrants get here by overstaying their visas. A wall isn’t going to do anything.


Locks and alarm systems don't stop all crime, but they slow it down. They claim that the current fencing significantly dropped crossing in the areas where it was installed. In the 1980's you could go down to the fence-less California/Mexico border each night and watch people running across. The fences on the California border moved illegal border crossings inland toward Arizona. They didn't all choose to tunnel under. And I would think you can only get so many people through a tunnel under a wall/fence before the flow of people becomes a tipoff there is a tunnel in the area. Then it gets filled in with concrete and they would need to start a new digging process of a tunnel that - if it is to have any longevity - has to go far enough that the Mexico entrance and USA exit is not noticed by border patrol.

During the 2016 Republican debates, I heard Marco Rubio claim "40% of illegal immigration now comes from visa over-stays" in making a case for no wall. Now it has grown to "the majority of illegal immigration is coming from visa overstays". But no one yet says "no significant illegal economic migration occurs across the southern border and no one expects it to ever occur again".

If it is true more are coming by airplane than land, there is definitely a point there. I would state it as "Why only talk about the land crossings when there is something even bigger?"

Quote:
Honestly, anyone who isn’t talking about punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants isn’t taking the issue seriously. Anything else is just bullshit.


I would mostly agree. I will normally say that Trump ran on "semi-enforcing" immigration law, but that should actually be "partially stopping illegal immigration".


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 11923
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 6:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
The trends of the Obama recovery continue. Thanks for the proof. Laughing


CT, yer teasing the trolls again! Razz



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 58906
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 6:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
But no one yet says "no significant illegal economic migration occurs across the southern border and no one expects it to ever occur again"


Because nobody cares about that. StoningtonQB showed above that it doesn't hurt the economy. Unemployment levels are at record lows. The only reason people are concerned about border crossings is race baiting fairytales about crime.



_________________
On Christmas Day, the Gingerbread Man said, ‘Ladyfingers, be my wife.’
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19912



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/19/19 10:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I see the word 'troll' is getting tossed around.

This isn't a salon where everyone dresses the same, looks and talks the same or thinks the same things. There's trolling going on here in Area 51 alright. It's not new and it's why I stopped posting here. Because after 14 years or so of curating acceptable behaviors here I'd just had enough of dealing with people who can't discuss and debate without trolling or demeaning others here. It became no longer worth my trouble. And I've been distracted by other things.

But we all knew that wouldn't last and so here I am and if and when I see the typical behaviors I'm going to fix the problem.

1. Don't troll here.
2. If you ARE a troll, like, literally, that's WHO you are, say goodbye to your friends here on Rebkell's because you ARE leaving.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19912



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/20/19 4:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
But no one yet says "no significant illegal economic migration occurs across the southern border and no one expects it to ever occur again"


Because nobody cares about that. StoningtonQB showed above that it doesn't hurt the economy. Unemployment levels are at record lows. The only reason people are concerned about border crossings is race baiting fairytales about crime.


All due respect. I have a different opinion.

Listen to something the New York Times' Julie Hirschfeld Davis said on CNN this morning speaking of the wall.

"It's a matter of trust. Most people don't live on the border. They don't live the reality of illegal immigration. The border wall. Day to day. So they have to take people's word for it. Are you going to listen to Democrats in congress who are saying, 'This is not a crisis. There's nothing happening here that can't be solved with conventional border security measures ... or are you going to listen to the president, "It's an invasion, the only way to stop this is a huge wall."

Inside Politics is the show. This is, of course, said in a round-table discussion, very quickly. These reporters are talking faster than maybe the New York Times editors would be hitting the publish button on such candor and I thought this was a rare admission of something that has pretty much been a point I've self-tattooed to my internet presence here.

Most people don't live on the border. They don't live the reality of illegal immigration. So they have to take [other] people's word for it.

Uh, this would be most of you guys.

She's saying what I've been saying. Most of you here and most everyone around the country who is currently outraged by Trump's shenanigans are only able to take other people's word for it when it comes to the need or utility of a more drastic border security strategy. And if it's Democrats who are playing to their base or Republicans who fear this issue and what Donald Trump is doing to their party, or whatever, you're still just hearing and trusting someone else's version of what illegal immigration is or isn't doing to places in this country where you do not live and do not know.

What you need, and aren't getting, is someone who is willing to tell you the truth. And other than me and tfan, good luck finding your way out of these big woods.

Let's take a big myth passed around here many times as well as being a lynchpin in the mainstream defense of loose borders. The American people don't care about illegal immigration.

So I'm not going to touch this looking at the American people as most people think of the American people. I want to talk about some American people who you all are, despite my best efforts, apparently still completely oblivious to.

And these people care more about the issue of illegal immigration than you could ever imagine. But you don't have to imagine because I'm going to tell you about them, for the 50th effing time.

They are the affluent of California.

First, let me describe them and this place to you as clearly as I can. California is home to the largest and most advanced and sophisticated extremely affluent grouping of people in the history of mankind.

Now you might be thinking, advanced, jammer? What about Switzerfuckingland? Um. You would be thinking about advanced and benevolent. I'm not thinking of benevolence at all. This place is certainly advanced in myriad numbers of benevolent ways, no question. And it even works amazingly well considering nothing here is at all based on benevolent design or execution. It's kind of a paradise. Seriously.

That is WHY it is home to more very rich people than anyplace ever in the history of mankind. The opulence here is I'm sure unimaginable to so many of you. And yet, it's SO common here. I mean, in terms of numbers. Here's one that I think is striking. There are, the last time I checked anyway, about 90K homes in NY state that are worth a million dollars or more. About the same in Florida. Texas. Illinois. Massachusetts.

Ten times that in California. Almost a million. And I'm sure these are old numbers.

But again, you can't imagine what those numbers mean or what vast communities with homes averaging 3-5 million or more mean or even what any of that looks like.

But this massive presence of affluent people, as I said, advanced and sophisticated, they see it all very clearly. Their properties, their needs, their lifestyles, their fortunes even, depend on many things. It all depends on CONDITIONS to be almost perfect. And so they need lots of help, endless amounts of help, an unimaginable volume of consistently replenishing help.

Their lives here would be completely unimaginable without that help. Unrecognizable. Well, honestly, it would all vanish. Just like it did in the south 150 years ago. What's the great theme of great southern literature? Everyone knows the answer to that.

Decay.

Decay is what happens when there are no more servants. No more staff. Outside help, inside help. Help with the children.

I'm telling you people here how it is. How it really is. Wake the hell up. You're listening to Democratic politicians and activists who are getting their marching orders from the Democratic Party's ATM machine, California. To the people who fund OUR party illegal immigration is the most important political issue in their lives, no matter what else they tell you. And it's got nothing to do with them being benevolent or funding a benevolent political party platform.

Great bit near the end of one of the essays in Joan Didion's Political Fictions. People in Nicaragua, human rights folks, reporters, and even state dept. personnel are trying to inform Washington of the killings by the army down there. And it's like, in the White House, and even throughout elements of the Washington press corps, like there's static on the line, bad connection. And in the official US government's telling of things, and in the Washington Post, etc. it comes across as it can't be determined which side in the struggles down there is doing the killing.

Didion puts it something like this. You knew 48 hours after getting off the plane who was doing the killing. I've lived in California for 32 years.

Within the republic of the United States exists this empire. California. And it's like the Roman Empire. Hollywood is Rome itself. Empires eventually fall. Like the South did. After the fall comes decay and ruin.

The rich out here, where I live, and have lived for over 30 years, are MOST concerned about losing all of this. This that you can't see. They are more sophisticated than you or your kind or even me with all my years out here could ever be. By sophisticated, I mean they have been way ahead of this issue of immigration and loose borders and maintaining the incredibly opulent and luxurious lives they enjoy and will pass on to their children.

This is why illegal immigration is such the major issue it is and it has become as we can see even more so since Donald Trump came down that escalator. There's a lot of people in this country that want a wall built. And the Democratic Party controlling affluence of California is on the other side of that. They make it an issue. And then another large part of the country opposes them. And yet it is so often heard that nobody cares about this issue. lol. The affluent out here fear more than anything else the decay that will come when they don't have the endless supply of Mexicans and central Americans they have now to do all they now do.

We watch House Hunters and guys will be complaining about the size of the yard or having a pool. Who's going to mow that lawn and clean that pool? mrs jammer and I look at each other with shock. What? Really? This is not the reality of life in California. I went back to Pittsburgh last fall. There's lawnmower commercials on the fucking TV. I'm like... WHAT? You don't see lawnmower commercials in LA.

I'm sure many of you saw Roma. I don't know what your takeaway was from that film. But that film provided a window I'm suggesting you should look through again. That, what you saw in that movie, that household dynamic, the work environment, the ethnicity factors involved, on and on. THAT is the engine of the paradise that is California. It is replicated by the millions when it comes to households. In this and the last apartment building we lived in young single woman have maids. Certainly bachelors have maids. I'm not going to say these are shitty Beverly Hills apartments but they ain't shit either. We don't now but we used maids for years. They all look like the lead character in Roma.

People living in mansions out here cannot fathom hiring white and black Americans to fill those jobs. Even I can't fathom that. How do you train or teach American whites and blacks from a class that would embrace that type of employment all the things that the Mexicans seem to silently know. It would be impossible.

The properties would have to shrink dramatically. The lifestyles of such outsized opulence that they enjoy now would have to be dramatically altered. There would still be plenty of Latinos but not nearly enough for a household to have upwards of ten people in a weeks time combing the houses and grounds. Things would have to be dialed way back. There would be competition. Wages would increase. There would, yeah, eventually be a necessity to hire Americans for these jobs. Some people might have to clean up after their own mess. It would be a bumpy ride for decades but no matter, there would be decay out the wazoo.

I've been telling you guys this one thing for years. This is a complicated issue. You guys see this as Trump vs. goodness and light and benevolence. Light and dark. You choose light and feel so good about yourselves. You look at me and think I'm a xenophobe. Because that's the only reference point for you to grab onto when you hear someone saying the kinds of things I'm saying. Light or dark. jammer is speaking words we most commonly associate with xenophobia. You have no idea what I want in terms of solutions because I barely have an idea!

I didn't vote for Trump I voted for Hillary! I hate everything about what the Democratic Party has become. But I voted for Hillary. I don't want people here illegally working in the shadows all around me making my life a cushy thing to be deported! I just had the thought last week that, jeez, if I'm lucky enough to even GET old it's going to be great to always know that I'm going to be able to have someone cleaning my place and bringing me groceries and when the time comes cooking for me and everything else.

But I'd rather DIE in my own SHIT than not tell the truth about what I've observed and learned in my life out here. Somebody in this country is getting royally screwed by what the super wealthy of California has decided they prefer.

I might not always agree with everything that tfan says, but he knows more about this subject then any ten of you put together. lol. Any ten. He has infinite patience and energy to deal with the dismissive shit you guys give him. He is more like most of you in that you all traffic in and respond more to data than the anecdotal stuff that I post. But his perspective is instantly recognizable to me as coming from someone who has lived here.

I would suggest you stop looking at the people who cross the border illegally and start focusing on those who are SO involved and committed to this issue... on BOTH sides. You already know what Donald Trump is doing. He's using this issue to hang onto a base of Americans who want a border wall and illegal immigration slowed. While he hires them himself. You could have learned that any day of last week on CNN.

But God help you if you think what you need to know about this complicated issue is what you can learn from CNN.

Look hard at the other side. The resistance and the activists and the bleeding hearts around the country? Yeah, okay. Probably a lot of sincerity there. But go deeper. Look at how the political impact and influence of Hollywood has grown so exponentially since Trump took office. I'm telling you this is all they care about. This is issue number 1, 2, and 3 for the largest and most wealthy concentration of humans ever. And they are only interested in holding onto their servants. How can anyone be on their side?

They are not on your side. They don't give a flying fuck what happens in the rest of the country as a result of any political effect they have on anyone but themselves.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11711
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/20/19 8:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Where does Bernie's money come from?



_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19912



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/20/19 10:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I voted for Bernie in the primary and would have a very very hard time not voting for him again. My dream ticket was Clinton/Warren because I thought the moment was right for two women and Warren was a younger version of Bernie politically. But Clinton and Bernie would have been epic and it’s my opinion had Hillary picked either of those two she would be the president right now and we’d have never known what a Trump presidency would be like.

But just because someone like Bernie doesn’t take money form big California donors doesn’t mean he doesn’t have to win Democratic primaries in a country where there’s only two ways of thinking about any political issue.

This is in response to your trolling me in the El Chapo thread. Next response to you trolling me or anyone else is you -> gone.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11711
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/20/19 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
I voted for Bernie in the primary and would have a very very hard time not voting for him again. My dream ticket was Clinton/Warren because I thought the moment was right for two women and Warren was a younger version of Bernie politically. But Clinton and Bernie would have been epic and it’s my opinion had Hillary picked either of those two she would be the president right now and we’d have never known what a Trump presidency would be like.

But just because someone like Bernie doesn’t take money form big California donors doesn’t mean he doesn’t have to win Democratic primaries in a country where there’s only two ways of thinking about any political issue.

This is in response to your trolling me in the El Chapo thread. Next response to you trolling me or anyone else is you -> gone.



I wasn't trolling you. I honestly thought you voted for Trump.



_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11711
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/20/19 12:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Where does Bernie's money come from?



Senator Bernie Sanders raised $5.9 million from 223,000 donors within the first 24 hours of his 2020 presidential campaign.

$5,900,000/$223,000= $26.46 per donation.



_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51 All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin