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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 12/13/18 11:09 pm    ::: THIS explains..... Reply Reply with quote

A LOT!!



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 12/14/18 4:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I see that the "tribal groups" shown are Bernie Supporters, Trump Supporters, Libertarians, and presumably old Republicans ("we still like Ike"). Easy to see who the creator voted for. If the video is suggesting that the Clinton supporters were not a "tribal group", I would disagree. I think that if the Clintons had not embraced job export and any related agreements like NAFTA and TPP, something Democrats would have traditionally fought, but rather, been against it, the Hillary Clinton supporters would have been against job export. They wouldn't have seen the facts as supporting job export as the creator may feel they currently do. And if the Clintons had embraced enforcing immigration laws, the Hillary Clinton supporters would have supported that as well. Or as the creator would put it, they would see the facts as supporting immigration enforcement, and that would include building a wall if she had called for it to protect blue-collar American workers.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 12/14/18 11:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I see that the "tribal groups" shown are Bernie Supporters, Trump Supporters, Libertarians, and presumably old Republicans ("we still like Ike"). Easy to see who the creator voted for. If the video is suggesting that the Clinton supporters were not a "tribal group", I would disagree. I think that if the Clintons had not embraced job export and any related agreements like NAFTA and TPP, something Democrats would have traditionally fought, but rather, been against it, the Hillary Clinton supporters would have been against job export. They wouldn't have seen the facts as supporting job export as the creator may feel they currently do. And if the Clintons had embraced enforcing immigration laws, the Hillary Clinton supporters would have supported that as well. Or as the creator would put it, they would see the facts as supporting immigration enforcement, and that would include building a wall if she had called for it to protect blue-collar American workers.


Yeah, I got all kinds of problems with this. Not with the basic assertions which I think are fairly solid. Just with the irony as it applies in this specific context. Sweet Jesus, the irony.

Here's a better explanation. It's from me and not from a slick cartoon made by a political group solidly on one side and made specifically targeting politically like-minded slick cartoon lovers. But it's not a centrist thought at all. It's just me being me.

Context though. I recently was back home in Pittsburgh and my best friend told me his two sisters had really had it out over politics and Trump, etc. And he said he believes that they will probably never speak to each other again. That floored me. So I was thinking about it yesterday and this notion (of truth) popped into my head. Sort of my perspective on this phenomenon that is playing out in families and friendships everywhere now. Even here. Shocked

I got it figured out though. The reason there’s so much passionate division politically in this country, to the point where there's irreconcilable hostilities dividing families and friendships, is very simple and very logical.

It’s because both sides are right. So simple but I'm sure it won't be an easy idea for people even here to digest.

The problem isn't because one side has mighty science and goodness and logic on their side and the other side is silly stupid racist white people who you have to pretend you're with to even hope to get through to. That's not it.

People are absolutely RIGHT about who their enemies are but they're just not seeing the complete landscape of enemies. So the Trump crowd doesn't see the evils on the Republican side of things to a great extent because they are SO busy and distracted AND RIGHT AS RAIN about the Democratic Party and they've decided that, fuck it, we're going to go with the side that isn't calling us stupid racists. And the other side is, of course, correct about Trump, the Republican Party, and right wing radio and Fox News etc. and all of the incredibly destructive things they have and are doing to everything from the elective process to the environment. But a huge portion of that side has NO fucking idea who the real Democratic Party is and who is funding it and who is calling the shots. OR WHY.

Are people here capable of believing that that side is being badly fooled? Their own side? Maybe themsleves? I'd put my money down saying no.

People see what they see and we all want to believe we're on the side that is right and that we're doing the right things. But maybe it's just me and my own interest in politics that brings up this stuff but I hardly see anyone on Twitter who doesn't have all this rabid political shit in their bio. And everyone is an authoritarian bully. If I didn't know those people were real I'd swear it was the Russians. People are fucking nuts.

So I don't hold out much hope, honestly, and my solution is as pathetic as anything else. The people of this country have to take back the Democratic Party. Haha. What a joke. Take it back from California and Hollywood especially. But that ain't gonna happen because of the descriptions in this video of how the human mind works in the face of challenging information which, as I said, I think is pretty accurate.

But the predictions about that effect are ESPECIALLY accurate when the people thinking their thoughts are right about what they're thinking ARE RIGHT. Nothing quite like that feeling of knowing you're right. It's different than being wrong and thinking you're right.

Different people, in different parts of this country, at different economic levels, with different experiences, HELLO! ... know different things.

Remember the lady I posted on here a few years ago? London School of Economics. Blue blood from Canada. Progressive do-gooder creating a resume that sings like a missionary choir. Started some foundation in NYC helping poor people. Then one day she steps out of her brownstone and some guy catcalls her. Then she started an organization the intent of which was to get laws enacted that would get these black and brown men real jail time for speaking to her in such a way.

This lady knew one thing. She wanted to help the underprivileged in the big city. Then suddenly, just like that, she knew something else entirely. Now she knew she wanted to lock up their men. The reason I bring it up is because, forget the world for a second, this country is as complicated socially and economically and politically as it could possibly be. It doesn't take much to set people scattering in all directions.

Look at the Women's March. Should have been an unstoppable force of good (if that's what you believe resisting Trump is.) But it got taken over by a weird faction which included a pretty substantial representation of anti-semitic people.

Last thought that popped into my head right now as I'm typing was...

This is why we can't have nice things.



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7415



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PostPosted: 12/14/18 5:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trump seems to have caused the most political polarization in modern times. You see a lot of people on social media talking about "no longer on speaking terms" when the issue of Trump came up between family or friends. One woman was dismayed her husband supported Trump and told her friends and they advised her to divorce him, which didn't go over too well since she still loved him.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 11988
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 12/14/18 6:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Easy to see who the creator voted for. If the video is suggesting that the Clinton supporters were not a "tribal group", I would disagree

I didn't see that suggestion implied anywhere. Now, in that one graphic of tribes, if there had been a "Hillary" group depicted, I couldn't have found the message to be any more or less truthful. Or just skip the depiction of any tribes....it IS a real phenomenon, regardless.



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Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 12/14/18 6:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting article about how D's and R's see each other. Turns out both really are misinformed about each other. For ex - R's think 36% of D's are atheist or agnostic (actually 9%), 46% black (v. 24%), 38% LBG (v 6%.) D's think R's are 44% over 65 (actual 21%) 44% "evangelicals" (v. 34%) 44% Southerners (v. 36%) and 44% earn over 250k (v 2%).


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-are-wrong-about-republicans-republicans-are-wrong-about-democrats/


Quote:
A Pew Research Center poll from last year found that about 40 percent of both Democrats and Republicans belong to their party because they oppose the other party’s values, rather than because they are particularly aligned with their own party


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11773
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 12/14/18 7:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"both sides do it". Rolling Eyes



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 12/15/18 9:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CsxXty6vEBA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IzC-l7tovFk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 11988
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 12/15/18 11:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Re: the above? Illustrates a couple things....

1. MANY voters are ill-informed on platform details, especially that far before the actual election and debates.

2. Trump has "said" a number of Good Things: i.e., Common Core (or its implementation) has been abysmal, and needed to go.

3. One could do the exact opposite (throw out various, lesser-known Hillary quotes, and get Trumpettes to give their ringing endorsements.)

Overall, cute tho....Laughing

cthskzfn wrote:
"both sides do it". Rolling Eyes


Definitely more accurate to say ever-BODY does it. It's part of being human, as the OP explains.



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11773
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 12/16/18 11:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Re: the above? Illustrates a couple things....

1. MANY voters are ill-informed on platform details, especially that far before the actual election and debates.

2. Trump has "said" a number of Good Things: i.e., Common Core (or its implementation) has been abysmal, and needed to go.

3. One could do the exact opposite (throw out various, lesser-known Hillary quotes, and get Trumpettes to give their ringing endorsements.)

Overall, cute tho....Laughing

cthskzfn wrote:
"both sides do it". Rolling Eyes


Definitely more accurate to say ever-BODY does it. It's part of being human, as the OP explains.



It has been used in this thread to mansplain the support of/disgust with Trump.

"Both sides do it".



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