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Staley: Where Are All the Black Coaches?
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stever



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 5:18 pm    ::: Staley: Where Are All the Black Coaches? Reply Reply with quote

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/dawn-staley-black-coaches

Quote:
Yet this is a sport mostly played by black women. So how do we change that? How do we get more black people — especially women — in head coaching positions? How can our sport reflect back to young black girls what they see in the mirror? What their own hopes for success may look like?



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elsie



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 5:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I see a majority of white players across the country.....so what....and when is the nba and society going to get some more white male players...

oh but that's not important....


Howee



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

elsie wrote:
I see a majority of white players across the country.....so what....and when is the nba and society going to get some more white male players...

oh but that's not important....


....and what country are you in? Lithuania? Hungary? Laughing



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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The percentage of black coaches is significantly lower than the percentage of black players



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 7:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As I wrote in the Drake @ Creighton game thread this afternoon regarding this article:

ArtBest23 wrote:
I look at this game and realize how myopic and insular Dawn Staley's view of the world is as expressed in her recent article about black women coaches.

She writes "this is a sport mostly played by black women." Maybe she should have said "in the SEC" or "in my neighborhood in inner city Philadelphia" because I look at this game between a MVC team and a BE team played in the Midwest and I see ten white players on the court.

If anyone thinks that article was anything other than a recruiting pitch, they're dreaming. It's basically "black women players need to come play for me because I'm their role model." Frankly I'm never impressed by people who promote racial stereotypes and racial divides to advance their own personal objectives.

If that article was directed at Haley Jones ( the timing is certainly convenient), all I can say is she's better off attending college at Stanford over South Carolina regardless of what race or sex the basketball coach might be.

BTW, Dawn just got beat by this same Drake team last week.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 7:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The percentage of black coaches is significantly lower than the percentage of black players


In ALL of WCBB? Are you sure about that? Any numbers or evidence to support that?

We're not talking about the NBA here.


readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
pilight wrote:
The percentage of black coaches is significantly lower than the percentage of black players


In ALL of WCBB? Are you sure about that? Any numbers or evidence to support that?

We're not talking about the NBA here.



Admittedly I don't have numbers but I've noticed for quite a while that the percentage of black players is higher among the highest ranked teams. Of course there are exceptions. It's like the old adage "you can't teach height." You also can't teach athletic capability. Sprinters/hurdlers/long jumpers are primarily black with paler skin people excelling more at longer distances. Basketball makes more use of sprint and jumping abilities than some other sports. Of course, the sport is also full of players who've relied on athleticism and failed to develop basketball specific skills. But anyone failing to acknowledge that the best teams have more black players is akin to climate change deniers. Your belief does not change the facts.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 8:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
pilight wrote:
The percentage of black coaches is significantly lower than the percentage of black players


In ALL of WCBB? Are you sure about that? Any numbers or evidence to support that?

We're not talking about the NBA here.



Admittedly I don't have numbers but I've noticed for quite a while that the percentage of black players is higher among the highest ranked teams. Of course there are exceptions. It's like the old adage "you can't teach height." You also can't teach athletic capability. Sprinters/hurdlers/long jumpers are primarily black with paler skin people excelling more at longer distances. Basketball makes more use of sprint and jumping abilities than some other sports. Of course, the sport is also full of players who've relied on athleticism and failed to develop basketball specific skills. But anyone failing to acknowledge that the best teams have more black players is akin to climate change deniers. Your belief does not change the facts.


I don't know about that. UConn, ND, Stanford, Baylor, Oregon, Maryland, Syracuse, Duke, etc all seem to regularly have pretty racially diverse teams. Indeed, SCarolina seems to be the outlier in terms of lack of diversity.


Howee



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 10:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Sprinters/hurdlers/long jumpers are primarily black with paler skin people excelling more at longer distances.


....until you get to the Marathon levels. The Best are typically Ethiopian, Kenyan, etc.

It makes me think of how the National Spelling Bee has a huge preponderance of Indian winners. Is that genetic/racial, or cultural? I mean, when your first name might be Bhaveshshamjibhai (yes, that's a real Indian name), spelling "koinonia" is absurdly simple. Laughing

ArtBest23 wrote:
Indeed, SCarolina seems to be the outlier in terms of lack of diversity.


Rutgers has been very predominantly African American for as long as I can remember, too. And there are those institutions like Coppin State, et. al., that have traditionally been predominantly black.

I think it's safe to say that among basketball players, there is a much higher percentage of African Americans than in the general population, and in the coaches' ranks, there are fewer. But it's a work in progress....change is happening. I get that Dawn feels the need to *represent*, but hopefully it will be done in a positive, constructive way.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 10:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:

I think it's safe to say that among basketball players. . .


I think you need to address separately men's and women's. I think the demographics are significantly different between the two sports. I suspect part of the impression of WBB bleeds over from the men rather than reflecting the actual situation.


pilight



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 10:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

According to the NCAA, about 46% of D-I WCBB players are African American. About 23% of head coaches are African American. If we exclude HBCUs, the players are 43% African American while the coaches are 17% African American.

http://web1.ncaa.org/rgdSearch/exec/main

Are those numbers sufficient?



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 11:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
According to the NCAA, about 46% of D-I WCBB players are African American. About 23% of head coaches are African American. If we exclude HBCUs, the players are 43% African American while the coaches are 17% African American.

http://web1.ncaa.org/rgdSearch/exec/main

Are those numbers sufficient?


Yes, thank you. But do you find those numbers terribly offensive? People here were making it sound like it was 90% of players and 10% of coaches.

And those numbers also demonstrate that Staley's claim that "this is a sport mostly played by black women" is complete bullshit.


pilight



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 11:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I stand by my original statement



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/28/18 11:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
I stand by my original statement


Yes, It's literally true, but does it mean anything? What's the significance of the numbers you provided and what if anything do you believe is required in the face of those numbers?

Do you think that mathematical exactitude is some sort of solution to racial issues? Is that all that matters, that jobs be doled out in precise proportion to demographic representation?

BTW, you did not support you original statement nor respond to my reply. I said

ArtBest23 wrote:


In ALL of WCBB? Are you sure about that? Any numbers or evidence to support that?


You very carefully carved out one piece for your stats. I don't know what the numbers show for the rest, but you typically are purposeful in your precision.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 11/29/18 12:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There are a lot of players who are half and half. Or 3/4 - 1/4. Where are they lumped in these stats?

At any rate, for once I can agree with Howee in that change is clearly happening, just slowly. And that's basically the same way it has happened for women in general. And for gays. and for 'other' religions. And for any other minority group. We can hope, in spite of the misogynist, racist clown we have as POTUS, that more parity for all of us will become increasingly a reality.



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Matt5762



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PostPosted: 11/29/18 8:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
There are a lot of players who are half and half. Or 3/4 - 1/4. Where are they lumped in these stats?


There is a category for 2 or more races in the NCAA stats - looks like that's another 7% of basketball SAs.

The interesting thing in the NCAA's stats to me is that the racial divide among assistant coaches correlates more closely to that of players than to head coaches. Whether it's a sign of progress in the pipeline or a glass ceiling, I don't know...


pilight



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PostPosted: 11/29/18 8:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The percentages aren't the problem, they're a symptom. If the underlying discrimination is resolved the numbers will take care of themselves.



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Or kiss lots of girls
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snzuluz



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PostPosted: 11/29/18 8:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Before we worry about female black vs white coaches in the women's game we should be alarmed how few women are head coaches at all levels of women's/girl's basketball...men can take head women's Bball jobs on EVERY level of women's/girl's basketball... yet there are very few if any female head coaches of a men's/boy's program,


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/29/18 9:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The percentages aren't the problem, they're a symptom. If the underlying discrimination is resolved the numbers will take care of themselves.


Are they? What do the percentages tell you by themselves?

Do you have some number in mind that will exist "if the underlying discrimination is resolved"?

BTW, I'm not suggesting there's no racism. Far from it. I'm just not convinced these numbers tell you much about it. And I think there is at least as much racism in Staley's attitude and approach as there is in the things she complains about. What would people say if someone wrote an article that said "you need to come play for me just because I`m white". I'd be offended. But Staley writes "chose me because I'm the same race as you" and people applaud? I don't get that.

If she really gave a damn about the kids she's writing to, she should probably say "if you have a great academic record, you shouldn't waste it here. You should parlay your basketball skills into the best free education you can get. You've earned it. Go out there to Stanford or Princeton or Harvard or Duke and become the black female Jeff Bezos and change the world." But she doesn't. She just wants to win her own basketball games.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 11/29/18 2:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I find Staley's article to be very racist. If I wrote a similar story saying that as a white person, I ought to play for a white coach, I'd be labeled as a racist in the worst possible way.


pilight



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PostPosted: 11/29/18 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not going to defend Staley's attitude. It is not at all constructive. But it is also the result of the racial problems in college sports.



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If that's something you're into
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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/29/18 5:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Staley and four other black women's coaches discuss further

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/videos/ncaa-black-female-coaches-roundtable



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PickledGinger



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PostPosted: 11/30/18 3:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Black NCAAWB Players: 46%
Black NCAAWB Coaches: 17%
Black Americans: 13%

13% of the total population of Americans represent almost half of the WBB players in the NCAA.

Dawn’s not being racist, she is being real. She is combating systemic racism.

If you disagree and have questions about what systemic racism means, please ask.

Respectfully, if possible.


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PostPosted: 11/30/18 7:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

snzuluz wrote:
Before we worry about female black vs white coaches in the women's game we should be alarmed how few women are head coaches at all levels of women's/girl's basketball...men can take head women's Bball jobs on EVERY level of women's/girl's basketball... yet there are very few if any female head coaches of a men's/boy's program,


Big East anyone I love that conference but one black coach and one woman coach...no just no yeah Bruno and Harry are legends, flannery tarts and bozzella have been consistent winners and Crowley has street cred but it's still a bad look...esp when your led by "Wnba founder" Val ackerman...was expecting more ebb caring not less sigh



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 11/30/18 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
snzuluz wrote:
Before we worry about female black vs white coaches in the women's game we should be alarmed how few women are head coaches at all levels of women's/girl's basketball...men can take head women's Bball jobs on EVERY level of women's/girl's basketball... yet there are very few if any female head coaches of a men's/boy's program,


Big East anyone I love that conference but one black coach and one woman coach...no just no yeah Bruno and Harry are legends, flannery tarts and bozzella have been consistent winners and Crowley has street cred but it's still a bad look...esp when your led by "Wnba founder" Val ackerman...was expecting more ebb caring not less sigh


Bruno and Harry are "legends" only if they aren't held to the same standards as other "legends." Longevity in and of itself does not a coaching legend make.


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