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Coaches on the Hot Seat 2018-19
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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 03/02/19 5:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
One point that is missing from this discussion about Holly, is that her teams have progressively gotten worse from season to season.

Well, that's just not true. Let's 'grab' a coupla seasons:
11/12: 27-9 (Pat's last season)
12/13: 27-8
13/14: 29-6
14/15: 30-6
15/16: 22-14
16/17: 20-12
17/18: 25-8
The above seasons refute the "Progressively gotten worse" theory.

Pat's 96/97 season: 29-10! Not as good as Holly's 2013-15 seasons! Shocked Oh, yeah....Pat DID win a national championship that year, but....still. Razz

What's the Big Difference? OUR GAME HAS GROWN TREMENDOUS DEPTH AND PARITY IN THE LAST 20 YEARS, AND EVEN PAT, IF SHE WERE ALIVE AND WELL TODAY, COULD NO LONGER SUSTAIN THE GOLDEN ERA AT TENNESSEE, I'M AFRAID TO TELL YA. Ask Geno.

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Unfortunately, I also doubt they'll be able to hire anyone who's going to do a whole lot better in the immediate future, which is what the fans are demanding.


Ain't it The Truth, Ruth!?

Ask ANY "FAB"/proven/amazing ('outside') coach: "Could/would YOU be willing to step in and take over for Geno/Tara/Muff/Kim, and maintain that same quality of program, guaranteed, if they'd bequeath their team to you?" How many raised hands might you count? Shocked



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 03/03/19 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

These are great points about Warlick, and have made me reconsider.

I think part of the general perception, mine included, is that Tennessee has underperformed relative to its talent level, but those win totals are pretty impressive.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 03/03/19 11:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tennessee's tournament results have gotten progressively worse under Warlick, and that's what matters to most LV fans



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 03/03/19 11:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm too lazy to look it up but what about SEC results? I can't imagine they have had a shittier SEC win-loss than this year...and this year is a 'down' year for the SEC. You can wrap up a lot of wins if you play nobody OOC. This year they played Stanford and Texas and that was it.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 03/03/19 12:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I'm too lazy to look it up but what about SEC results? I can't imagine they have had a shittier SEC win-loss than this year...and this year is a 'down' year for the SEC. You can wrap up a lot of wins if you play nobody OOC. This year they played Stanford and Texas and that was it.


And Clemson, Okla State, and Notre Dame. Tenn went 3-2 in those 5 games, not overly impressive but not a cupcake OOC schedule either.

This year will be their worst SEC record. The previous three years were also among their worst four years.


Davis4632



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 03/03/19 1:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

2012–13 Tennessee 27–8 14–2 1st NCAA Elite Eight SEC Regular Season Champ

2013–14 Tennessee 29–6 13–3 T-2nd NCAA Sweet Sixteen SEC Tournament Champ

2014–15 Tennessee 30–6 15–1 T-1st NCAA Elite Eight SEC Regular Season Champ

2015–16 Tennessee 22–14 8–8 T-7th NCAA Elite Eight

2016–17 Tennessee 20–12 10–6 5th NCAA Round of 32

2017–18 Tennessee 25–8 11–5 T-4th NCAA Round of 32

2018-19 Tennessee 17-11 6-9 9th

Some people will see a glass half full and others may see the glass as being half empty.


Ay Mate



Joined: 12 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: 03/03/19 1:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
2012–13 Tennessee 27–8 14–2 1st NCAA Elite Eight SEC Regular Season Champ

2013–14 Tennessee 29–6 13–3 T-2nd NCAA Sweet Sixteen SEC Tournament Champ

2014–15 Tennessee 30–6 15–1 T-1st NCAA Elite Eight SEC Regular Season Champ

2015–16 Tennessee 22–14 8–8 T-7th NCAA Elite Eight

2016–17 Tennessee 20–12 10–6 5th NCAA Round of 32

2017–18 Tennessee 25–8 11–5 T-4th NCAA Round of 32

2018-19 Tennessee 17-11 6-9 9th

Some people will see a glass half full and others may see the glass as being half empty.


I see the glass completely empty. With the recruits she’s getting, Warlick should have been fired after last season. Total inept coaching. This team will never be a power team again until they fire the deadweight and get serious about finding someone who actually knows what they are doing. Same thing will happen to Uconn after Auriemma retires, but I predict it’ll be even worse at Uconn because of the conference they are in. Tennessee still attracts highend recruits because they are in the competitive SEC. Uconn has already completely lost its recruiting edge because they are in the AAC.

All good things come to end. It might not be a great thing for Tennessee and Uconn fans, but it’s good for the sport in general and good for other schools.


Ay Mate



Joined: 12 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: 03/03/19 2:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
2012–13 Tennessee 27–8 14–2 1st NCAA Elite Eight SEC Regular Season Champ

2013–14 Tennessee 29–6 13–3 T-2nd NCAA Sweet Sixteen SEC Tournament Champ

2014–15 Tennessee 30–6 15–1 T-1st NCAA Elite Eight SEC Regular Season Champ

2015–16 Tennessee 22–14 8–8 T-7th NCAA Elite Eight

2016–17 Tennessee 20–12 10–6 5th NCAA Round of 32

2017–18 Tennessee 25–8 11–5 T-4th NCAA Round of 32

2018-19 Tennessee 17-11 6-9 9th

Some people will see a glass half full and others may see the glass as being half empty.


I see the glass completely empty. With the recruits she’s getting, Warlick should have been fired after last season. Total inept coaching. This team will never be a power team again until they fire the deadweight and get serious about finding someone who actually knows what they are doing. Same thing will happen to Uconn after Auriemma retires, but I predict it’ll be even worse at Uconn because of the conference they are in. Tennessee still attracts highend recruits because they are in the competitive SEC. Uconn has already completely lost its recruiting edge because they are in the AAC.

All good things come to end. It might not be a great thing for Tennessee and Uconn fans, but it’s good for the sport in general and good for other schools.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 03/03/19 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I doubt very much that CHW will be "fired." She will be allowed to "retire." Regardless of her half-full, half-empty results over the past few years, she's given 30 years of hard work to her alma mater, including the difficult years of Pat's decline. Few AD's would be classless enough to kick her in the *** on her way out the door.


purduefanatic



Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2388
Location: Indiana


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PostPosted: 03/03/19 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't think what happened in Bloomington today helped the situation in West Lafayette.


Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 03/03/19 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How many years will Wisconsin give Jonathan Tsipis? I don't think he's turning things around here.



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purduefanatic



Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana


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PostPosted: 03/03/19 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
How many years will Wisconsin give Jonathan Tsipis? I don't think he's turning things around here.


That was already addressed in this thread. He is getting things going.


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 5380
Location: Shenandoah Valley


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PostPosted: 03/03/19 11:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
How many years will Wisconsin give Jonathan Tsipis? I don't think he's turning things around here.


Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe he’s only in his third year, he’s getting some better recruits, and he’s not in the basement. Also, his home winning record is 10-6 and overall he’s 13-17, which isn’t that shabby when you’re trying to claw your way out of the hole the program was allowed to get into. It depends a lot on the AD, but I kind of get the impression that WBB isn’t a priority at my alma mater. If Alvarez is still the AD he’s going to let him have more time, mostly because it’s not a big priority. Three years is in no way enough time to turn a program around.



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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 03/03/19 11:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
I doubt very much that CHW will be "fired." She will be allowed to "retire." Regardless of her half-full, half-empty results over the past few years, she's given 30 years of hard work to her alma mater, including the difficult years of Pat's decline. Few AD's would be classless enough to kick her in the *** on her way out the door.


So I will ask you Howee's question one more time:
Ask ANY "FAB"/proven/amazing ('outside') coach: "Could/would YOU be willing to step in and take over for Geno/Tara/Muff/Kim, and maintain that same quality of program, guaranteed, if they'd bequeath their team to you?" How many raised hands might you count?

You think you hear the fans bitching NOW? Wait till the next one.



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Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 03/03/19 11:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
How many years will Wisconsin give Jonathan Tsipis? I don't think he's turning things around here.


Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe he’s only in his third year, he’s getting some better recruits, and he’s not in the basement. Also, his home winning record is 10-6 and overall he’s 13-17, which isn’t that shabby when you’re trying to claw your way out of the hole the program was allowed to get into. It depends a lot on the AD, but I kind of get the impression that WBB isn’t a priority at my alma mater. If Alvarez is still the AD he’s going to let him have more time, mostly because it’s not a big priority. Three years is in no way enough time to turn a program around.


Yeah Alvarez is still AD and yeah Women's Bball is probably not going to be a priority for him. I also think 3 years isn't enough time and there's nothing to say someone else you got in could really get things going quickly - you might be worse off if you fire him.


Phil



Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 03/04/19 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
I doubt very much that CHW will be "fired." She will be allowed to "retire." Regardless of her half-full, half-empty results over the past few years, she's given 30 years of hard work to her alma mater, including the difficult years of Pat's decline. Few AD's would be classless enough to kick her in the *** on her way out the door.


So I will ask you Howee's question one more time:
Ask ANY "FAB"/proven/amazing ('outside') coach: "Could/would YOU be willing to step in and take over for Geno/Tara/Muff/Kim, and maintain that same quality of program, guaranteed, if they'd bequeath their team to you?" How many raised hands might you count?

You think you hear the fans bitching NOW? Wait till the next one.


I agree. It's not going to be pretty at any of those programs. That said, Baylor may not belong with the others - only because I don't sense a deep seated commitment to wbb.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 03/04/19 10:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Phil wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
I doubt very much that CHW will be "fired." She will be allowed to "retire." Regardless of her half-full, half-empty results over the past few years, she's given 30 years of hard work to her alma mater, including the difficult years of Pat's decline. Few AD's would be classless enough to kick her in the *** on her way out the door.


So I will ask you Howee's question one more time:
Ask ANY "FAB"/proven/amazing ('outside') coach: "Could/would YOU be willing to step in and take over for Geno/Tara/Muff/Kim, and maintain that same quality of program, guaranteed, if they'd bequeath their team to you?" How many raised hands might you count?

You think you hear the fans bitching NOW? Wait till the next one.


I agree. It's not going to be pretty at any of those programs. That said, Baylor may not belong with the others - only because I don't sense a deep seated commitment to wbb.


I dunno. I think as long as Kim is there and doing well....and anyway, isn't she a Texas gal, with family all down there?



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 03/04/19 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Looking at Warlick's record from the outside with no bias about the talent level, one would assume that though she's kept the program relevant, the dropoff is real.

Still, it really hasn't been a huge dropoff until this year, though the early losses in the tournament the past couple years certainly don't make fans happy.

From his perspective, if she wants to stay one more year, she should be allowed to -- and if she rights the ship either in this postseason or next year's regular season, then she's probably earned the right to stay.

On the other hand, those with Ay Mate's point of view (which certainly can be justified) can legitimately claim that this is an underachieving program and just needs a boost in coaching to reclaim past glory.

I would opt for letting her finish her contract and retire, unless lightning strikes and the LVs return to glory.



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FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 03/04/19 12:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
I doubt very much that CHW will be "fired." She will be allowed to "retire." Regardless of her half-full, half-empty results over the past few years, she's given 30 years of hard work to her alma mater, including the difficult years of Pat's decline. Few AD's would be classless enough to kick her in the *** on her way out the door.


So I will ask you Howee's question one more time:
Ask ANY "FAB"/proven/amazing ('outside') coach: "Could/would YOU be willing to step in and take over for Geno/Tara/Muff/Kim, and maintain that same quality of program, guaranteed, if they'd bequeath their team to you?" How many raised hands might you count?

You think you hear the fans bitching NOW? Wait till the next one.


If you'll re-read my previous posts, you'll see I was asking similar questions about a replacement for CHW who can be expected to do any better, because I don't see a likely prospect myself.



ClayK wrote:
Looking at Warlick's record from the outside with no bias about the talent level, one would assume that though she's kept the program relevant, the dropoff is real.

Still, it really hasn't been a huge dropoff until this year, though the early losses in the tournament the past couple years certainly don't make fans happy.

From his perspective, if she wants to stay one more year, she should be allowed to -- and if she rights the ship either in this postseason or next year's regular season, then she's probably earned the right to stay.

On the other hand, those with Ay Mate's point of view (which certainly can be justified) can legitimately claim that this is an underachieving program and just needs a boost in coaching to reclaim past glory.

I would opt for letting her finish her contract and retire, unless lightning strikes and the LVs return to glory.


Is this year's dropoff mitigated by the fact that 7/9's of the players being used are freshmen and sophomores? What is a realistic expectation? And before anyone starts citing McD's AA accolades and how Holly isn't coaching them adequately, look at the other McD AA players from last year, and see how many of them are tearing up the courts for their respective teams. And note that Davis and Westbrook are near the top of their McD class as regards scoring, and in rpg and apg, respectively.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/04/19 12:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kim Mulkey is a Louisiana girl -- born, raised, high school, college, and coach at LaTech from college to 2000: her first 38 years.
ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/04/19 12:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I`m a little surprised no one linked the Knoxville News Sentinel's column "Why it's time for Tennessee Lady Vols basketball to fire Holly Warlick."

www.knoxnews.com/story/sports/columnists/university-of-tennessee/john-adams/2019/03/01/holly-warlick-tennessee-lady-vols-basketball-vanderbilt/3023625002/

I bet Phil Fulmer read it.

I understand that it's more convenenient to dismiss as "outsiders " and "haters" anyone who states the obvious about Warlick's mess and to call them names, but that's not so easy when Kara Lawson has become increasingly critical and the local paper is calling for her ouster.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 03/04/19 1:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Holly's record surely disappoints the spoiled former legions of The Legend, but it's darn good by objective measures. The average coach, by mathematical definition, has a .500 record.

For all her loyalty, service and pride in being a Lady Vol forever, I think it would be personally very difficult for the competitive Holly to admit defeat and quit.

If she does leave, I don't think any of the other big name coaches would leave their currently successful programs to try to resuscitate a bygone era.

Rather than looking for a person with no coaching experience, or a mediocre head coach at a prominent D1 school, or just about any assistant coach, I think UTK should consider a highly successful and proven recruiter at a mid-major (like a Graves) or at lower divisions (like a Rueck).
myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 03/04/19 1:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Looking at Warlick's record from the outside with no bias about the talent level, one would assume that though she's kept the program relevant, the dropoff is real.

Still, it really hasn't been a huge dropoff until this year, though the early losses in the tournament the past couple years certainly don't make fans happy.

From his perspective, if she wants to stay one more year, she should be allowed to -- and if she rights the ship either in this postseason or next year's regular season, then she's probably earned the right to stay.

On the other hand, those with Ay Mate's point of view (which certainly can be justified) can legitimately claim that this is an underachieving program and just needs a boost in coaching to reclaim past glory.

I would opt for letting her finish her contract and retire, unless lightning strikes and the LVs return to glory.


I pretty much agree with this... Although one of the problems with letting a program go too deeply into the morass is that then recruiting also becomes affected. Fewer top recruits (and their parents) want to go to a program with obvious problems. And the spiral just continues on a downward trajectory.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 03/04/19 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
I understand that it's more convenenient to dismiss as "outsiders " and "haters" anyone who states the obvious about Warlick's mess and to call them names, but that's not so easy when Kara Lawson has become increasingly critical and the local paper is calling for her ouster.

"Convenient" may be the operative word here: it's also been very convenient to assassinate Holly, without regard to the context of her situation.

And it's most convenient to 'forget' something else: Pat was already losing her grip on national supremacy before her demise. The 'Parker' years were her last hurrah.

Yeah, it's not too hard to pick apart Holly's shortcomings. But I also think it's misguided to place ALL blame directly on her shoulders; she very willingly stepped into a not-so-obvious-at-the-time Hot Mess with optimism and faith. If nothing else, Holly was always a tough competitor and a loyal protégé. When you've been raised within "The Legacy", you're blind to the objective reality that all Glory Days are behind you.

Can TN become the proverbial Phoenix, rising from the ashes? I'm not convinced they're even IN the ash heap yet, but....maybe just remaining in the top half of the SEC is the most realistic expectation. I'd love to be proven wrong.



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Last edited by Howee on 03/04/19 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 03/04/19 1:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
I`m a little surprised no one linked the Knoxville News Sentinel's column "Why it's time for Tennessee Lady Vols basketball to fire Holly Warlick."

www.knoxnews.com/story/sports/columnists/university-of-tennessee/john-adams/2019/03/01/holly-warlick-tennessee-lady-vols-basketball-vanderbilt/3023625002/

I bet Phil Fulmer read it.

I understand that it's more convenenient to dismiss as "outsiders " and "haters" anyone who states the obvious about Warlick's mess and to call them names, but that's not so easy when Kara Lawson has become increasingly critical and the local paper is calling for her ouster.


I haven't read that article, but John Adams is pretty much an idiot. He's a commentator who has a long history of criticizing the Lady Vols without knowing much about the team, took over LV coverage earlier this season when the paper cut the position of the long-time staffer who covered the LV's, and has been agitating for CHW's firing all season. Fulmer may take all that with a grain of salt.

Lawson, OTOH, sits on the university's Board of Trustees and is obviously someone whose opinion is respected. I'd bet she and Fulmer have talked.


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