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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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 Posted: 02/28/19 4:13 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| She wasn't talking specifically to me. I had said what I had to say earlier in that thread and bowed out because YOU were being ugly. You continue to be ugly, as is your usual forte. And since you seem determined to have the last word on this subject too, go ahead and have it. I hope it chokes you. I've tried to be reasonably nice to you but I'm over it. |
You didn't answer her question at all. You didn't like my answer so I asked you how you would answer. Instead of answering you started calling me names and then ran away and hid.
It's not too late. You can still provide a civil answer. . . If you have one.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 02/28/19 4:18 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| Why on earth would Walz leave Louisville? For anywhere? He has built that program into one of the top 5 or so in the nation, drawing top recruits and sell out crowds. He is paid very well and they have tremendous facilities. |
Unfortunately, that is what I thought about Gail Goestenkors and Duke in early March 2007. But circumstances changed.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7822
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 02/28/19 4:21 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Anybody think Vic Schaefer or Wes Moore is a viable candidate? |
Moore is a Tenn Alum and coached for many years at UTChatanooga. A big question would be why he would want to start over at age 61 when he is enjoying great success and support in the best conference with nice new facilities. I'd think It's unlikely unless it's just an itch he's always wanted to scratch.
For Schaefer, on the other hand, I would think he's basically maxed out and will have trouble sustaining his current success at Miss St. He might see this as his big opportunity. Far more visibility, support and easier recruiting. I don't know how tied he is to his current job.
I'm curious. Do you think there will be a lot of flack if Fulmer considers hiring a male coach for "Pat's job"? |
I dunno. It would just seem kind of......weird. That's all. I don't know if there would be a lot of flak about it though.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3511
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| Posted: 02/28/19 4:23 pm ::: |
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| IDK. Of the 4 coaches originally mentioned, I don't see Walz, Staley, or Mulkey giving up their current gigs for the same or less pay. The problem with Graves is he hasn't made any inroads at all into recruiting in the southeast. While I also think it would be best to look outside Tenn's coaching tree, I also wouldn't be shocked to see Harper or Fargas back in Knoxville either. I also wouldn't be shocked at a male coach. Schaefer's 57 and he doesn't have any young children to uproot.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/28/19 4:35 pm ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| IDK. Of the 4 coaches originally mentioned, I don't see Walz, Staley, or Mulkey giving up their current gigs for the same or less pay. The problem with Graves is he hasn't made any inroads at all into recruiting in the southeast. While I also think it would be best to look outside Tenn's coaching tree, I also wouldn't be shocked to see Harper or Fargas back in Knoxville either. I also wouldn't be shocked at a male coach. |
I would be extremely surprised to see Graves ever leave the West coast. Maybe he'd take the UCLA or USC or Stanford job if offered some day, but otherwise why give up the Nike financial support?
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snzuluz
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 190
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| Posted: 03/01/19 8:33 am ::: |
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| Harper did not make it at NC State, so I doubt she would be brought in to an even bigger program like Tenn...she is a nice Mid-major coach and needs to stay in that lane.
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elsie
Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 276
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| Posted: 03/01/19 11:19 am ::: |
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| graves is not a recruiter....he depends on his assistants to do that and Lisa Fortier did most of the recruiting at Gonzaga before he left just like he got the former Oregon State assistant to recruit to oregon....he is into golf and fair weather....he will not move.....
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/01/19 12:48 pm ::: |
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| Well, then, his assts can't recruit in the southeast. How many players from that region have they recruited in the past decade? One? Two?
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BD22
Joined: 27 Nov 2016
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Location: East
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| Posted: 03/01/19 1:06 pm ::: |
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| Kelly has a top 10 program locked and rolling. He is making plenty of money. He is a west coast guy. Not sure why this is even a conversation.
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PlayBally'all
Joined: 17 Oct 2013
Posts: 271
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| Posted: 03/01/19 3:22 pm ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
Something is going to emerge. Good (decent) coach with a lot of baggage and rumors of crazy behavior over the years. Wonder if we will get the full story. Seems like the current team has some elite freshmen and a chance to get back to the NCAAs
...but now this....
FYI: Mark Simons is the former husband to Gail Goestenkors. They were married for much of her Duke career. |
Mark Simmons was also an Assistant to Nell Fortner at Auburn. He has a couple of stints at Ga Tech as an assistant and at Michigan State.
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PlayBally'all
Joined: 17 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 03/01/19 3:24 pm ::: |
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| snzuluz wrote: |
| Harper did not make it at NC State, so I doubt she would be brought in to an even bigger program like Tenn...she is a nice Mid-major coach and needs to stay in that lane. |
You have a valid point as to her time at NC State. It wasn't bad, but nothing special either. However, I do believe that she has what it takes to lead a major program. She has Missouri State's program doing well.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7822
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/01/19 3:28 pm ::: |
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| PlayBally'all wrote: |
| snzuluz wrote: |
| Harper did not make it at NC State, so I doubt she would be brought in to an even bigger program like Tenn...she is a nice Mid-major coach and needs to stay in that lane. |
You have a valid point as to her time at NC State. It wasn't bad, but nothing special either. However, I do believe that she has what it takes to lead a major program. She has Missouri State's program doing well. |
That was quite a few years back. I daresay she has learned a good bit since then. What you seem to be saying is that nobody ever learns anything. Get over that one.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/01/19 9:53 pm ::: |
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If you looked at any team--ANY team--whose last 3 seasons were:
22-14, 20-12, and 25-8, and decided their coach was not a "winning" coach, most might think yer nutz. 
Now, I'm neither a Holly fan nor a hater. I only admire TN from the perspective of the huge legacy to 'our' game created there, but the double-edged blade of that legacy is *killing* Holly, as it includes the need to WIN MORE/BIGGER.
Can you imagine if Geno or Muff or Tara ended their careers next month? And several years later, their successors at UConn/Notre Dame/Stanford *only* posted 22-14, or 20-12 or 25-8 seasons?
Name ONE National Powerhouse program in our sport that has maintained that status under more than ONE coach? Probably not a realistic expectation. And The Masses ponder which wunderkind might restore it all....ain't gonna happen.
People always seem to forget a notsolongago tale at Texas. Gail Goestenkoers--an elite level coach in all regards--could not revive a once-proud program, and that situation wasn't even as disparate; Gail arguably had a better coaching record than Holly ever could have, AND she wasn't expected to maintain/restore a National Powerhouse of TN's status. Did. Not. Work.
And don't forget: Pat herself lost with the LV's to Bowling Green in the tournament. Even she was human.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16358
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 03/01/19 11:06 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
Name ONE National Powerhouse program in our sport that has maintained that status under more than ONE coach? |
Purdue was a consistent Top Ten team during a string of four coaches, including going to Final Fours under 3 and national title games under 2.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 03/01/19 11:09 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| Name ONE National Powerhouse program in our sport that has maintained that status under more than ONE coach? |
Louisiana Tech won national titles under both Sonja Hogg and Leon Barmore.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 03/02/19 9:47 am ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Or my UCLA *men's* basketball team. |
Please accept my apologies for taking this thread on a tangent, but Pat sort of brings up something I have been thinking about quite a bit lately as March Madness approaches. The Pac-12 is looking at 1 or 2 teams getting invites into the NCAA's, esp if Washington, the clear cut top team wins the conference tournament. I suppose they could maybe get 3 if Washington loses but honestly, Arizona State is squarely on the bubble and if they don't win the conference title, the auto bid may force them onto the wrong side of the bubble.
At any rate, what on earth has happened to Pac-12 men's basketball?
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BD22
Joined: 27 Nov 2016
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Location: East
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| Posted: 03/02/19 11:07 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
If you looked at any team--ANY team--whose last 3 seasons were:
22-14, 20-12, and 25-8, and decided their coach was not a "winning" coach, most might think yer nutz.
Now, I'm neither a Holly fan nor a hater. I only admire TN from the perspective of the huge legacy to 'our' game created there, but the double-edged blade of that legacy is *killing* Holly, as it includes the need to WIN MORE/BIGGER.
Can you imagine if Geno or Muff or Tara ended their careers next month? And several years later, their successors at UConn/Notre Dame/Stanford *only* posted 22-14, or 20-12 or 25-8 seasons?
Name ONE National Powerhouse program in our sport that has maintained that status under more than ONE coach? Probably not a realistic expectation. And The Masses ponder which wunderkind might restore it all....ain't gonna happen.
People always seem to forget a notsolongago tale at Texas. Gail Goestenkoers--an elite level coach in all regards--could not revive a once-proud program, and that situation wasn't even as disparate; Gail arguably had a better coaching record than Holly ever could have, AND she wasn't expected to maintain/restore a National Powerhouse of TN's status. Did. Not. Work.
And don't forget: Pat herself lost with the LV's to Bowling Green in the tournament. Even she was human. |
I totally agree with you on this. It just seems that the fanbase is so far gone on Holly that they won't allow themselves to look at it rationally. Like I said in the article, having the level of expectations that they have is absurd and completely unfair. Even if Tennessee were to sneak into the tournament this year and make another deep run, the second that struggled next season they calls for her head would rise again. She is in a no-win situation.
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 2313
Location: Culver City, CA
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| Posted: 03/02/19 11:50 am ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Or my UCLA *men's* basketball team. |
Please accept my apologies for taking this thread on a tangent, but Pat sort of brings up something I have been thinking about quite a bit lately as March Madness approaches. The Pac-12 is looking at 1 or 2 teams getting invites into the NCAA's, esp if Washington, the clear cut top team wins the conference tournament. I suppose they could maybe get 3 if Washington loses but honestly, Arizona State is squarely on the bubble and if they don't win the conference title, the auto bid may force them onto the wrong side of the bubble.
At any rate, what on earth has happened to Pac-12 men's basketball? |
I dunno, man, they're just bad. I wanna believe it's just cyclical, and maybe it's just that. But the P12 is a bad conference in MBB and in football lately, and it's very consternating to the mainstream west coast sports fan (of which I'm not included) who has no interest in the continued improvement (and, in some cases, dominance) of the P12 non-revenue teams... including women's basketball.
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 861
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| Posted: 03/02/19 2:54 pm ::: |
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One point that is missing from this discussion about Holly, is that her teams have progressively gotten worse from season to season. I can guarantee if Geno's successor went 22-14 and was losing to the like of Wichita St., and ECU,
they would be calling for that coach to be fired. There's already of some tension from some of the UConn fanbase due to the fact they haven't won the last 2 national titles, you can imagine if they start to lose multiple games in the AAC and get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round of the NCAAS.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3511
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| Posted: 03/02/19 3:21 pm ::: |
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| BD22 wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
If you looked at any team--ANY team--whose last 3 seasons were:
22-14, 20-12, and 25-8, and decided their coach was not a "winning" coach, most might think yer nutz.
Now, I'm neither a Holly fan nor a hater. I only admire TN from the perspective of the huge legacy to 'our' game created there, but the double-edged blade of that legacy is *killing* Holly, as it includes the need to WIN MORE/BIGGER.
Can you imagine if Geno or Muff or Tara ended their careers next month? And several years later, their successors at UConn/Notre Dame/Stanford *only* posted 22-14, or 20-12 or 25-8 seasons?
Name ONE National Powerhouse program in our sport that has maintained that status under more than ONE coach? Probably not a realistic expectation. And The Masses ponder which wunderkind might restore it all....ain't gonna happen.
People always seem to forget a notsolongago tale at Texas. Gail Goestenkoers--an elite level coach in all regards--could not revive a once-proud program, and that situation wasn't even as disparate; Gail arguably had a better coaching record than Holly ever could have, AND she wasn't expected to maintain/restore a National Powerhouse of TN's status. Did. Not. Work.
And don't forget: Pat herself lost with the LV's to Bowling Green in the tournament. Even she was human. |
I totally agree with you on this. It just seems that the fanbase is so far gone on Holly that they won't allow themselves to look at it rationally. Like I said in the article, having the level of expectations that they have is absurd and completely unfair. Even if Tennessee were to sneak into the tournament this year and make another deep run, the second that struggled next season they calls for her head would rise again. She is in a no-win situation. |
I've been a Pat Summitt fan, and by extension a Lady Vols fan, ever since seeing her play in the 1976 Olympics (dating myself there). I've been reading the various LV fan boards for at least 10-12 years, and I can go to VolNation and recognize most of the regular posters there.
Every year, starting with Holly's first loss, the board will become overrun with people I've never heard of, but checking their profiles and posting histories, they're primarily transplants from the football boards, who don't have a clue who the players are, what defense the team used in most of the last game, which guard can't make FT's, or anything else. All these people come on the board just to bash and curse Holly and demand that she be fired. It doesn't matter if she wins her next ten or fifteen games, and goes 25-8, she still should be fired. If she wins a NC, she should be fired because she didn't win it every year since she became HC. There's an enormous, largely ignorant, but very vocal group of "fans" demanding that she go. The vitriole which is being spewed about her by so-called fans is just appalling. The local press has taken up the call to have her fired as well. I doubt the UT administration is going to buck this tide much longer. Unfortunately, I also doubt they'll be able to hire anyone who's going to do a whole lot better in the immediate future, which is what the fans are demanding.
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Skyfan22
Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Posts: 520
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| Posted: 03/02/19 5:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| BD22 wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
If you looked at any team--ANY team--whose last 3 seasons were:
22-14, 20-12, and 25-8, and decided their coach was not a "winning" coach, most might think yer nutz.
Now, I'm neither a Holly fan nor a hater. I only admire TN from the perspective of the huge legacy to 'our' game created there, but the double-edged blade of that legacy is *killing* Holly, as it includes the need to WIN MORE/BIGGER.
Can you imagine if Geno or Muff or Tara ended their careers next month? And several years later, their successors at UConn/Notre Dame/Stanford *only* posted 22-14, or 20-12 or 25-8 seasons?
Name ONE National Powerhouse program in our sport that has maintained that status under more than ONE coach? Probably not a realistic expectation. And The Masses ponder which wunderkind might restore it all....ain't gonna happen.
People always seem to forget a notsolongago tale at Texas. Gail Goestenkoers--an elite level coach in all regards--could not revive a once-proud program, and that situation wasn't even as disparate; Gail arguably had a better coaching record than Holly ever could have, AND she wasn't expected to maintain/restore a National Powerhouse of TN's status. Did. Not. Work.
And don't forget: Pat herself lost with the LV's to Bowling Green in the tournament. Even she was human. |
I totally agree with you on this. It just seems that the fanbase is so far gone on Holly that they won't allow themselves to look at it rationally. Like I said in the article, having the level of expectations that they have is absurd and completely unfair. Even if Tennessee were to sneak into the tournament this year and make another deep run, the second that struggled next season they calls for her head would rise again. She is in a no-win situation. |
I've been a Pat Summitt fan, and by extension a Lady Vols fan, ever since seeing her play in the 1976 Olympics (dating myself there). I've been reading the various LV fan boards for at least 10-12 years, and I can go to VolNation and recognize most of the regular posters there.
Every year, starting with Holly's first loss, the board will become overrun with people I've never heard of, but checking their profiles and posting histories, they're primarily transplants from the football boards, who don't have a clue who the players are, what defense the team used in most of the last game, which guard can't make FT's, or anything else. All these people come on the board just to bash and curse Holly and demand that she be fired. It doesn't matter if she wins her next ten or fifteen games, and goes 25-8, she still should be fired. If she wins a NC, she should be fired because she didn't win it every year since she became HC. There's an enormous, largely ignorant, but very vocal group of "fans" demanding that she go. The vitriole which is being spewed about her by so-called fans is just appalling. The local press has taken up the call to have her fired as well. I doubt the UT administration is going to buck this tide much longer. Unfortunately, I also doubt they'll be able to hire anyone who's going to do a whole lot better in the immediate future, which is what the fans are demanding. |
A lot of the fans that are complaining are fans that have been fans since discovering them during EASTER WEEKEND in the final 4 in 88 or 89 or other memorable moment in basketball. Just because we don’t all post 30-40 times a day in volnation does not make us less passionate about the Lady Vols or what they were. Sterilizing the numbers surrounding Holly’s record and choosing the stats with which you want to defend her can easily be argued the opposite way. She playedcupcakes for the first 12 games until she stumbled into the SEC and got spanked. She has a string of firsts that keep getting worse. Here’s a star, 7000 people at senior night. Speaks volumes. Or, you can also argue qualitatively her coaching shortcomings. Starting with she has zero ability to motivate, does not hold players accountable, does not teach Tennessee defense, and takes none of the blame for the team’s shortcomings.
And it’s irksome posting in volnation and being dismissed for not being there since ‘12 and have 1300 posts.
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Skyfan22
Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Posts: 520
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| Posted: 03/02/19 5:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| BD22 wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
If you looked at any team--ANY team--whose last 3 seasons were:
22-14, 20-12, and 25-8, and decided their coach was not a "winning" coach, most might think yer nutz.
Now, I'm neither a Holly fan nor a hater. I only admire TN from the perspective of the huge legacy to 'our' game created there, but the double-edged blade of that legacy is *killing* Holly, as it includes the need to WIN MORE/BIGGER.
Can you imagine if Geno or Muff or Tara ended their careers next month? And several years later, their successors at UConn/Notre Dame/Stanford *only* posted 22-14, or 20-12 or 25-8 seasons?
Name ONE National Powerhouse program in our sport that has maintained that status under more than ONE coach? Probably not a realistic expectation. And The Masses ponder which wunderkind might restore it all....ain't gonna happen.
People always seem to forget a notsolongago tale at Texas. Gail Goestenkoers--an elite level coach in all regards--could not revive a once-proud program, and that situation wasn't even as disparate; Gail arguably had a better coaching record than Holly ever could have, AND she wasn't expected to maintain/restore a National Powerhouse of TN's status. Did. Not. Work.
And don't forget: Pat herself lost with the LV's to Bowling Green in the tournament. Even she was human. |
I totally agree with you on this. It just seems that the fanbase is so far gone on Holly that they won't allow themselves to look at it rationally. Like I said in the article, having the level of expectations that they have is absurd and completely unfair. Even if Tennessee were to sneak into the tournament this year and make another deep run, the second that struggled next season they calls for her head would rise again. She is in a no-win situation. |
I've been a Pat Summitt fan, and by extension a Lady Vols fan, ever since seeing her play in the 1976 Olympics (dating myself there). I've been reading the various LV fan boards for at least 10-12 years, and I can go to VolNation and recognize most of the regular posters there.
Every year, starting with Holly's first loss, the board will become overrun with people I've never heard of, but checking their profiles and posting histories, they're primarily transplants from the football boards, who don't have a clue who the players are, what defense the team used in most of the last game, which guard can't make FT's, or anything else. All these people come on the board just to bash and curse Holly and demand that she be fired. It doesn't matter if she wins her next ten or fifteen games, and goes 25-8, she still should be fired. If she wins a NC, she should be fired because she didn't win it every year since she became HC. There's an enormous, largely ignorant, but very vocal group of "fans" demanding that she go. The vitriole which is being spewed about her by so-called fans is just appalling. The local press has taken up the call to have her fired as well. I doubt the UT administration is going to buck this tide much longer. Unfortunately, I also doubt they'll be able to hire anyone who's going to do a whole lot better in the immediate future, which is what the fans are demanding. |
A lot of the fans that are complaining are fans that have been fans since discovering them during EASTER WEEKEND in the final 4 in 88 or 89 or other memorable moment in basketball. Just because we don’t all post 30-40 times a day in volnation does not make us less passionate about the Lady Vols or what they were. Sterilizing the numbers surrounding Holly’s record and choosing the stats with which you want to defend her can easily be argued the opposite way. She playedcupcakes for the first 12 games until she stumbled into the SEC and got spanked. She has a string of firsts that keep getting worse. Here’s a star, 7000 people at senior night. Speaks volumes. Or, you can also argue qualitatively her coaching shortcomings. Starting with she has zero ability to motivate, does not hold players accountable, does not teach Tennessee defense, and takes none of the blame for the team’s shortcomings.
And it’s irksome posting in volnation and being dismissed for not being there since ‘12 and have 1300 posts.
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