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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 12/12/18 8:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Speculation vs reality. Polls, as relatively worthless as they are, should reflect the results of competition, I've always felt.

As such, an 18pt home loss deserves more than a drop to #2, at this current point in the season, all things considered.

Frankly my dears, i don't care too much.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 12/12/18 9:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
linkster wrote:
You have been hanging onto the Skyler Diggens era when ND did indeed out play UConn.


UConn beat ND even in the four-year Diggins era, 8-7.

I think it's quite possible that ND is overrated at #2 in the polls. An 18 point loss at home is quite a shellacking and should raise serious doubts about the team's quality.


depends on if you think UConn, playing as they did, would or wouldn't have given equally good/bad shellacking to any other team in the top five...


Exactly. A ranking system is about the relative position to the teams above and below. If you think, as apparently the voters do and I agree, that ND is better than Baylor, Louisville, Miss St, Md, et al, then the Irish still belong at #2.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 12/12/18 11:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
myrtle wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
linkster wrote:
You have been hanging onto the Skyler Diggens era when ND did indeed out play UConn.


UConn beat ND even in the four-year Diggins era, 8-7.

I think it's quite possible that ND is overrated at #2 in the polls. An 18 point loss at home is quite a shellacking and should raise serious doubts about the team's quality.


depends on if you think UConn, playing as they did, would or wouldn't have given equally good/bad shellacking to any other team in the top five...


Exactly. A ranking system is about the relative position to the teams above and below. If you think, as apparently the voters do and I agree, that ND is better than Baylor, Louisville, Miss St, Md, et al, then the Irish still belong at #2.


I guess we'll find out on Jan 3rd when UConn travels to Waco.

If Baylor wins or loses by less than 18, are the current rankings off?



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 12/12/18 2:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't think the margin of victory is necessarily the most important factor. Even though UConn beat ND by 18, I still think ND has a better chance of beating the Huskies than anyone else. Mississippi St is a close second. Baylor has an opportunity to show if they can play a competitive game with UConn and if so they can boost their stock. I don't believe Louisville can, but they will also get a chance later his season. In the second 5, I give Oregon and Oregon St the best chance of beating UConn if they have a hot shooting day.


PickledGinger



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PostPosted: 12/12/18 4:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also, consider, in the long run, that the other teams in the Top 5-10 will all be facing stiff competition and likely improving during their respective conference seasons, whereas (as seen the last 2 seasons) UConn will probably be about as good in March as they will be going in to their conference.

Not having any close games all season doesn’t prepare a team for close games in the FF. Just sayin.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 12/12/18 5:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:


Exactly. A ranking system is about the relative position to the teams above and below. If you think, as apparently the voters do and I agree, that ND is better than Baylor, Louisville, Miss St, Md, et al, then the Irish still belong at #2.


All those schools are undefeated.

Again, go back to 2015. When UConn lost by 2 in OT to Stanford no one thought the Trees were a better team on paper (they lost their next game at home to Texas). And yet UConn dropped from 1 to 3. If you think that UConn will win by more than 18 at Baylor (or at Louisville) then I hope you are a betting type.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 12/12/18 5:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
Also, consider, in the long run, that the other teams in the Top 5-10 will all be facing stiff competition and likely improving during their respective conference seasons, whereas (as seen the last 2 seasons) UConn will probably be about as good in March as they will be going in to their conference.

Not having any close games all season doesn’t prepare a team for close games in the FF. Just sayin.


Laughing



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tfan



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PostPosted: 12/12/18 6:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:

Not having any close games all season doesn’t prepare a team for close games in the FF. Just sayin.


If they have close games in the Final Four. They had close games the last two years, but that isn't always the case. Their victories in the finals have been by [1995 - 6, 2000 - 19, 2002 - 12, 2003 - 5, 2004 - 9, 2009 - 22, 2010 - 6, 2013 - 33, 2014 - 21, 2015 - 10, 2016 - 31]

Semifinals: [1995 - 27, 2000 - 22 , 2002 - 23, 2003 - 2, 2004 - 9, 2009 - 19, 2010 - 20, 2013 - 18, 2014- 19, 2015 - 23, 2016 - 29]

Historically, they are more likely to have a blowout at the Final Four than a close game.




Last edited by tfan on 12/12/18 10:51 pm; edited 4 times in total
linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 12/12/18 7:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
Also, consider, in the long run, that the other teams in the Top 5-10 will all be facing stiff competition and likely improving during their respective conference seasons, whereas (as seen the last 2 seasons) UConn will probably be about as good in March as they will be going in to their conference.

Not having any close games all season doesn’t prepare a team for close games in the FF. Just sayin.


I question how much "stiff competition" the likely FF contenders (N Dame, Miss St, Baylor) actually face in-conference. UConn plays OOC opponents Louisville, Baylor and a weakened S Carolina during their conference season. Does any FF contender in a P5 conference play 2 games as tough as at Louisville and at Baylor in-conference? Right now I don't see it.


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 12/13/18 3:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:


Exactly. A ranking system is about the relative position to the teams above and below. If you think, as apparently the voters do and I agree, that ND is better than Baylor, Louisville, Miss St, Md, et al, then the Irish still belong at #2.


All those schools are undefeated.



All of these teams are undefeated. Also, none of them have played a team as good as the one that beat Notre Dame.


5thmantheme



Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 12/13/18 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Massey has rankings up :
https://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaa-d1/ratings

"Old" style RPI (not the new just this year version) :
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Women.html


For whatever reason Sagarin doesn't have up, this years ratings.


umbeta1455



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 12/13/18 11:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

5thmantheme wrote:
Massey has rankings up :
https://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaa-d1/ratings

"Old" style RPI (not the new just this year version) :
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Women.html


For whatever reason Sagarin doesn't have up, this years ratings.


If their is a new RPI system out, why does the NCAA.com site still use the same formula that’s on the realtimerpi site?


Homyonkel



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 12/13/18 11:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

5thmantheme wrote:
Massey has rankings up :
https://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaa-d1/ratings

"Old" style RPI (not the new just this year version) :
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Women.html


For whatever reason Sagarin doesn't have up, this years ratings.


How does one get the rankings from the Massey site you posted?


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11773
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PostPosted: 12/14/18 7:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Homyonkel wrote:
5thmantheme wrote:
Massey has rankings up :
https://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaa-d1/ratings

"Old" style RPI (not the new just this year version) :
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Women.html


For whatever reason Sagarin doesn't have up, this years ratings.


How does one get the rankings from the Massey site you posted?



Is this a trick question?



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Homyonkel



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PostPosted: 12/15/18 2:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Homyonkel wrote:
5thmantheme wrote:
Massey has rankings up :
https://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaa-d1/ratings

"Old" style RPI (not the new just this year version) :
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Women.html


For whatever reason Sagarin doesn't have up, this years ratings.


How does one get the rankings from the Massey site you posted?



No trick. Last season when I clicked on the Massey site it showed the complete ranking or I could click on any day's games for the spread. Now nothing appears.



Is this a trick question?


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 12/15/18 2:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Homyonkel wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Homyonkel wrote:
5thmantheme wrote:
Massey has rankings up :
https://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaa-d1/ratings

"Old" style RPI (not the new just this year version) :
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Women.html


For whatever reason Sagarin doesn't have up, this years ratings.


How does one get the rankings from the Massey site you posted?



No trick. Last season when I clicked on the Massey site it showed the complete ranking or I could click on any day's games for the spread. Now nothing appears.

Is this a trick question?


When I use this link I get the same massey rankings as in past seasons.

https://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&sub=NCAA%20I


5thmantheme



Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 12/15/18 3:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

umbeta1455 ... I think I got ahead of myself and not enough info. The new NET system is being used by ncaa men. The women are using the old RPI system this year, (maybe) the last year of it.

Homyonkel ... hmm, I'm not a tech guy at all. Both links are working for me in Firefox and Chromebook. It might be a blocked ads problem, frames, https v http, but honestly I don't know.


Matt5762



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 515



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PostPosted: 12/15/18 3:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:

When I use this link I get the same massey rankings as in past seasons.

https://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&sub=NCAA%20I


I think the site's been having some issues. I use it a decent amount and I've seen quite a few times lately where it just hangs with the message "Please wait while the data loads". Not sure if this is the issue Homyonkel's referring to, but if you keep trying, it does tend to load everything eventually.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 12/15/18 6:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There will be movement on Monday. Laughing



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Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 12/15/18 6:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
In 2015, UConn opened the season at No 1 and then lost their second game to Stanford, AT Stanford, in OT. They dropped from 1 to 3 as N Dame, who had beaten no one of note but who was undefeated became No 2. This year, the No 1 team lost, AT HOME, BY 18 POINTS, and you think it's somehow evidence of bias to drop them to No 5?

Maybe the problem is with those who still think ND is a better team right now than Baylor, Louisville and Miss St., all of whom are still undefeated.

As far as UConn dropping after losing to Stanford in their second game of the year, isn't that different than Notre Dame dropping a game to UConn after having already beaten a bunch of good teams? Notre Dame had already proven itself in several games, beating Oregon State, DePaul, Drake, Iowa and Gonzaga? In 2014, UConn's only win before the Maples loss was a win over UC-Davis.

Maybe the problem is people thiking ND is better than Baylor, Louisville, and Miss St.? I'm not sure what you mean. UConn beat Notre Dame pretty bad in that game, but Notre Dame has already shown that they were an excellent team. What had these other teams shown, other than you can be undefeated longer if you play an easier schedule? Do you think any of these teams are better than Notre Dame? I would be shocked that you would rather face the Irish in the NCAA's than these teams.




Last edited by Fighting Artichoke on 12/15/18 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 12/15/18 6:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Homyonkel wrote:
No trick. Last season when I clicked on the Massey site it showed the complete ranking or I could click on any day's games for the spread. Now nothing appears.


To get Massey's ratings, click on this link: https://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cbw&sub=NCAAI

To get the days' games, click on this link: https://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaai/games

To get conferences rankings, click on this link: https://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaai/ratings?c=1

I hope that helps.


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 12/15/18 6:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
SpaceJunkie wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
Both South Dakota teams receiving votes. Will this be the year 2 summit teams make the NCAA tourney?


Probably


They would be locks if they beat Ore and Mizzou games coming up. Otherwise, they best not be losing any league games except to each other.


well you got Mizzou at Mizzou. That should count a bunch!



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 12/15/18 6:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fighting Artichoke wrote:


Maybe the problem is people thiking ND is better than Baylor, Louisville, and Miss St.? I'm not sure what you mean. UConn beat Notre Dame pretty bad in that game, but Notre Dame has already shown that they were an excellent team. What had these other teams shown, other than you can be undefeated longer if you play an easier schedule? Do you think any of these teams are better than Notre Dame? I would be shocked that you would rather face the Irish in the NCAA's than these teams.


agree. We've just seen what happens when Baylor plays a tough team. Miss. St won at Texas, but Texas hasn't shown they can beat anybody good. Louisville beat Kentucky and barely beat ASU. Miss. State will have a claim on #2 if they can beat Oregon at Oregon. Otherwise, to me it's absolutely clear that ND is the #2 team in the country.



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Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 12/15/18 6:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
I question how much "stiff competition" the likely FF contenders (N Dame, Miss St, Baylor) actually face in-conference. UConn plays OOC opponents Louisville, Baylor and a weakened S Carolina during their conference season. Does any FF contender in a P5 conference play 2 games as tough as at Louisville and at Baylor in-conference? Right now I don't see it.

You've made this argument before, and I haven't called it out, but it's probably time, as you keep repeating it. UConn does not play Baylor during its conference season. They play Baylor before their conference season begins. And Baylor's conference season will not begin until after the game either. So why have you repeatedly called it part of UConn's conference schedule?

Thus UConn plays @Louisville during its conference schedule, as well as a down South Carolina team and decent teams USF (twice) and UCF. Here is UConn's conference schedule, listing all the teams in Massey's top 100:

#33 USF
#72 @Tulane
#38 UCF
#5 @Louisville
#37 South Carolina
#38 @UCF
#33 @USF


Here's Notre Dame's:

#52 @GTech
#5 Louisville
#30 @VTech
#90 Boston College
#10 @Tennessee
#56 @UNC
#85 @Clemson
#52 GTech
#32 @Miami
#28 FSU
#90 @Boston College
#8 @NC St.
#47 Duke
#15 @Syracuse

I highlighted Top 25 teams from Massey above. After that (but before the NCAA tourney, the ACC conference tournament will have Notre Dame play another 2 top 25 teams, including probably Louisville, whereas UConn will probably only play either USF or UCF, and at home.

I know that Geno does his best to schedule a very tough OOC schedule to make up for the lack of challenges in the conference, but this year's in-conference season OOC games are weaker than last year because South Carolina is rebuilding.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 12/15/18 10:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One of those far West teams may sneak into the final four. They will all have plenty of in conference tough games to prepare them.



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