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Exceptions to the one-year sit-out rule for transfers
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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 11/01/18 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
So in your mind, Shepard should have been treated unequally and been denied a waiver regardless of the merits . . . .


You have an interesting bunker mentality way of interpreting posts sometimes. I didn't say Shepard was treated unequally or should have been denied. The entire thrust of this thread is that she likely had a knowledgeable team that successfully presented a case that she fit within one of the many exceptions or waiver provisions for the residency year. In response to CB, I was suggesting that maybe her petition was filed late and that's why it was acted upon late.

Yes, Shepard is picked on more than other waived transferees because she became a big winner. Big winners almost always get picked on and sour-graped: Goliath, Moby Dick, Wilt Chamberlain, Pat Summitt, Geno Auriemma, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, God. And picking on Shepard is made even easier because the waiver process is secret, unpublished, unexplained and seemingly arbitrary and capricious, even if it really isn't under the covers.

Hint: Giving rings to the subcommittee members was just rhetoric to spice up a tediously legalistic topic.
Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 5:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
There's no good reason for student-athletes to be forced to sit out when transferring.

True. It's collusion amongst the slave masters. They want the slaves to know that they are always in control.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 12:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Yes, Shepard is picked on more than other waived transferees because she became a big winner. Big winners almost always get picked on and sour-graped.


You must be speaking for yourself, because I was quite upset when the approval was first announced. Make the effort to exclude me from your ill-advised generalizations.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 3:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Yes, Shepard is picked on more than other waived transferees because she became a big winner. Big winners almost always get picked on and sour-graped.


You must be speaking for yourself, because I was quite upset when the approval was first announced. Make the effort to exclude me from your ill-advised generalizations.


Why? I don't recall ever including you in any of my ill-advised or well-advised generalizations on any subject whatsoever in my 13 years on this forum.

But I agree that several fans from different schools expressed wonder, confusion or resentment when Shepard's waiver was first announced right before the season. I didn't mean to exclude that; it's just that my focus was agreeing with Art that the sour grapes among some posters got even worse after Notre Dame won the national championship and their teams didn't.
Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 9:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Shades wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Yes, Shepard is picked on more than other waived transferees because she became a big winner. Big winners almost always get picked on and sour-graped.


You must be speaking for yourself, because I was quite upset when the approval was first announced. Make the effort to exclude me from your ill-advised generalizations.


Why? I don't recall ever including you in any of my ill-advised or well-advised generalizations on any subject whatsoever in my 13 years on this forum.

But I agree that several fans from different schools expressed wonder, confusion or resentment when Shepard's waiver was first announced right before the season. I didn't mean to exclude that; it's just that my focus was agreeing with Art that the sour grapes among some posters got even worse after Notre Dame won the national championship and their teams didn't.

+1


CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: 11/14/18 2:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There is a blog that lists the transfer waivers for this year.

https://wbbblog.com/2018/11/13/transfer-waivers-granted-in-d-i-womens-basketball-for-2018-19-season/


By their count, there were 20 this year (about 14%). That's quite a few mid-western Catholic schools... Wink


tfan



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PostPosted: 11/14/18 7:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
The entire thrust of this thread is that she likely had a knowledgeable team that successfully presented a case that she fit within one of the many exceptions or waiver provisions for the residency year. .


Doesn't look like "many" when the question is asked "which would have applied to Jessica Shepard or anyone else?" Looks a lot closer to none.


Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 11/14/18 11:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe folks just got fed up with all the ND whinging which was quite frankly out of whack. Laughing


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 06/04/19 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This interesting article on Shepard discusses her waiver process and concludes that the result was a mystery to Shepard and her parents. That's still much less informative than it could be, because neither Shepard nor her parents disclose the particular waiver reason (discussed in my OP) that her paperwork was aimed at or focused upon.

Quote:
She was optimistic a waiver request for immediate eligibility would be granted in the wake of Nebraska’s coaching change after her sophomore year, but even her parents had to admit it pretty much a coin flip.

Jill Bodensteiner, now the athletic director at St. Joseph’s University, and assistant AD for compliance Heidi Uebelhor handled the byzantine paper trail for Notre Dame. Shepard never had a chance to go before the NCAA to make her own case, which is just how the system is designed.

“I didn’t know if I would be playing or not (in 2017-18),” Shepard said. “It was just keeping the mindset that I would be playing knowing that I very well could not be playing. I was preparing as if I was getting ready to play.”

Nearly eight months after taking the transfer plunge, Shepard had just finished a two-hour workout with Irish assistant coach Beth Cunningham when Uebelhor greeted her with the good news. Shepard’s waiver request had been granted, making her immediately eligible just as Notre Dame was about to play its first exhibition game.

“I was just walking through the hallway in Joyce Center, and Jess is like, ‘Hey, I can play,’" Mabrey recalled. “I was like, ‘What? Really?’ She was like, ‘Yeah, I guess I should go get a uniform.’"

To this day, Shepard’s parents have no idea why her appeal was successful. That same fall, for instance, Navy transfer Alohi Gilman was told he’d have to sit out a year before playing football for the Irish.

“Nobody seems to really know what the deal is there,” Mark Shepard said. “When we looked at it, about 50 percent of the applications got approved and you have to go through multiple appeals to make it happen. She fully anticipated she would have to sit out for a year.”

. . . .

“I think that was just (because) we filled out the waiver the proper way and we were honest in everything that we did,” she said. “We had heard it was kind of a 50/50 deal. We knew we had gone about it the right way. We were just honest in the questions that they had asked, so whatever the result was we were going to be good with it.”


Note from my OP that the NCAA Bylaws do not say that a transfer residency requirement waiver can be granted simply because of a coaching change. Bylaw 14.7.1 says that a waiver can be granted if the transfer-from institution (Nebraska) has "suffered extraordinary personnel losses" in a sport "due to accident or illness of a disastrous nature." A simple and commonplace coaching change does not seem to meet this definition.

As we've discussed, I still think an effectively gussied-up "mental health" reason under Bylaw 14.7.2 is the most manipulable argument for a waiver. That would require the recommendation of a physician, as quoted in my OP, and Shepard would know whether a physician recommendation was part of her paperwork.
elsie



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PostPosted: 06/05/19 8:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

it makes the ND/shepard situation look even more conniving since the player and her parents reportedly had so little to do with it......somebody did ND a nice favor....

but people lie all the time......

unless its all OPEN then this will happen again in favor of one the bigs...


willtalk



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PostPosted: 06/07/19 2:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But I agree that several fans from different schools expressed wonder, confusion or resentment when Shepard's waiver was first announced right before the season. I didn't mean to exclude that; it's just that my focus was agreeing with Art that the sour grapes among some posters got even worse after Notre Dame won the national championship and their teams didn't.

Actually, mine remained the same other than that time had passed and the issue of the waiver was old news. Which basically means that it actually lessoned with time. Probably because I had already considered the potential long term consequences of that decision. Whether ND won a championship or not really has no impact on whether it was favoritism. All it does provide more focus on and renewed interest in an unfair waiver was unfair via an obvious consequence of that action.

Trying to label people who believe it was unfair as expressing " sour grapes " is nothing but a manipulative redirecting of focus off the actual issue. Vilifying the messenger. is a sorry tactic that reeks of an intent to justify an action by focusing on a possible negative interpretaion of the reaction.



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SDHoops



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PostPosted: 06/07/19 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All I'll say is that if Westbrook gets the waiver, I'll shut my fat mouth up about Shepard for as long as I live. I didn't say a word when AEH went to Hail State and got immediately eligible, I won't have any ill will if Coombs gets to play right away at Georgia. If UConn doesn't get that same treatment, I will call BS on all crooks and nannies in the world!!!!!!!! UConn hasn't won a title in three years nor have they made it to the title game so they are the underdogs in a sense.


Howee



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PostPosted: 06/07/19 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SDHoops wrote:
UConn hasn't won a title in three years nor have they made it to the title game so they are the underdogs in a sense.


Shocked What alternate universe do you reside in?? Razz Laughing



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 06/07/19 10:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:

Note from my OP that the NCAA Bylaws do not say that a transfer residency requirement waiver can be granted simply because of a coaching change. . . .

As we've discussed, I still think an effectively gussied-up "mental health" reason under Bylaw 14.7.2 is the most manipulable argument for a waiver.


Having said these things, I should add that I think that a coaching change could be a good predicate for a "mental health" argument for a residency waiver, under certain strong conditions. And I further think that those strong conditions are present in the case of Evina Westbrook. I'll flesh out my specific reasoning later or in the UConn thread (or maybe even a separate thread).
SDHoops



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PostPosted: 06/08/19 12:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
SDHoops wrote:
UConn hasn't won a title in three years nor have they made it to the title game so they are the underdogs in a sense.


Shocked What alternate universe do you reside in?? Razz Laughing

lol come on Howee. For UConn, they have been very underwhelming these past few years! 2018 was the most frustrating.


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 06/08/19 3:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Did anybody watch the Women's College World Series last week?

Starting pitcher for Oklahoma played for one team (ASU?) last fall, transferred and went to the championship series this spring.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 06/08/19 6:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SDHoops wrote:
All I'll say is that if Westbrook gets the waiver, I'll shut my fat mouth up about Shepard for as long as I live. I didn't say a word when AEH went to Hail State and got immediately eligible


Sounds like you’re not up on why AEH should have been granted an immediate waiver. There was a video floating around where Geno says this:
"She's not here anymore because I didn't want her here anymore. This is what I want you to do. If you don't do it, I'm going to remind you again. And if you don't do it, I'm going to remind you again. And to a point where I don't remind you and you are not here anymore. It's that simple. It's like living in the real world."

The coach not wanting you anymore seems like clear grounds for a no-wait transfer.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 06/08/19 1:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
SDHoops wrote:
All I'll say is that if Westbrook gets the waiver, I'll shut my fat mouth up about Shepard for as long as I live. I didn't say a word when AEH went to Hail State and got immediately eligible


Sounds like you’re not up on why AEH should have been granted an immediate waiver.
There was a video floating around where Geno says this:
"She's not here anymore because I didn't want her here anymore. This is what I want you to do. If you don't do it, I'm going to remind you again. And if you don't do it, I'm going to remind you again. And to a point where I don't remind you and you are not here anymore. It's that simple. It's like living in the real world."

The coach not wanting you anymore seems like clear grounds for a no-wait transfer.


In my OP I have attempted to quote or paraphrase all possible grounds stated in the NCAA bylaws for a no-wait transfer. Where in the bylaws do you see being threatened, or actually thrown off the team, for refusing to practice or for violating team rules as "clear grounds" for a no-wait transfer? That would simply open up a massive loophole in the residency requirement scheme -- namely, players could just deliberately defy the coach, break team rules, and then claim they are entitled to a no-wait transfer.

I don't know what bylaw ground AEH/Miss. St. relied upon to get the waiver. However, to your point, I again suspect some convincingly concocted variation on a "mental health" theme, possibly including allegations that AEH (rationally or not) subjectively perceived a mentally abusive coach.
mzonefan



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PostPosted: 06/12/19 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Did anybody watch the Women's College World Series last week?

Starting pitcher for Oklahoma played for one team (ASU?) last fall, transferred and went to the championship series this spring.


Only a handful of sports has the 1-year sit out rule. Softball is not one of them.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 06/13/19 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mzonefan wrote:
Only a handful of sports has the 1-year sit out rule. Softball is not one of them.


Football, men's and women's basketball, baseball and men's ice hockey transfers must sit out one year unless they apply to the NCAA for and are granted a waiver for immediate eligibility.

Meanwhile, student-athletes in all other sports are allowed immediate eligibility without penalty, provided they only transfer once.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/26948342/big-12-commish-all-transfers-sit-one-year


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