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Inside the WNBA's Fight for Higher Pay
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tfan



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 2:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In a lot of areas, the biggest women’s college basketball demographic seems to be older (at least empty nest) couples. But some UConn fan once said that they asked AARP age UConn fans why they weren’t going to Sun games, and the response was “when they are older it just isn’t the same”.


Hawkeye



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Marketing to the LGBT community is a must.


Why? That's a tiny demographic -- 4.5% of the U.S. population according to the most recent Gallup Poll, a result that's probably above average for historical polls on this subject. 4.5% is less than the percentage of Asians or Methodists in the U.S. population. Would targeted marketing to Asians or Methodists be a "must" for the WNBA? No, it sounds silly.

In addition, while marketing based on identity politics may seem like a virtue-signalling SJW thing to do, the majority of Americans are likely turned off or offended by injecting cultural politics blatantly into sports. It's not smart or successful business to alienate more customers than you attract with targeted marketing.

It would make much more business sense to market to a much larger and noncontroversial demographic, such as another you mention: women in general.


LGBT may be a small percentage of the total US population, but they are a very large percentage of women's basketball and women's sports fans. To dismiss the group and being to small to market to is an error. Writing off the group by looking at the entire population as opposed to the realities of the audience misses the opportunity.


That’s precisely why you don’t have to market to them. They already attend and seek out the WNBA without marketing. If the goal is to become as popular as the NBA, wouldn’t it make sense to market to the mainstream NBA fans.... make them want to attend games?


If you ignore them and take them for granted, the stay home and refuse to support the league, even if they are fans of it---Just like the Clinton voters in 2016.

If they were already coming to games in droves, why then when Donna took over did attendance drop by nearly 50%?? Could it be the WNBA turned their backs on the LGBT community to be "family friendly"? The WNBA ignored them and took them for granted and they stayed away.


Hawkeye



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 1:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Haven't they already tried that? Remember the "Basketball is basketball" ads on TV.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6-1P83-YThk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Marketing to NBA fans


Shades



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 3:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Haven't they already tried that? Remember the "Basketball is basketball" ads on TV.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6-1P83-YThk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


They had the right idea, but maybe something higher quality that I couldn’t splice together myself on a computer. Maybe the scene could be a pickup game with some of your more recognizable WNBA and NBA players actually playing together.

Just more basic advertising is needed too. Let people know that League Pass is only $16.99, and let people know more frequently when the bigger games are on ESPN. Get some ads on ABC.



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Hawkeye



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PostPosted: 11/06/18 12:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/06/18 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there.


In the early days, the WNBA was on Lifetime (which may or may not exist any more). They gave it a shot ...



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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 7:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there.


In the early days, the WNBA was on Lifetime (which may or may not exist any more). They gave it a shot ...


Not only does Lifetime exist...they are NWSLs primary partner and content producer

So they're all in on soccer opportunities missed in my book

Otherwise they're known for really awful tv movies.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 8:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Should get ads on daytime TV---game shows and soap operas. LOTS of eyeballs there and LOTS of FEMALE eyeballs there.


In the early days, the WNBA was on Lifetime (which may or may not exist any more). They gave it a shot ...


Not only does Lifetime exist...they are NWSLs primary partner and content producer

So they're all in on soccer opportunities missed in my book

Otherwise they're known for really awful tv movies.


Now that's interesting ... I had no idea.

So if the NWSL is working for them, maybe they will do more on the WNBA. Obviously, ESPN won't give them any games to cover, but they could do a WNBA show or two.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The female eyeballs on Lifetime have shown very little interest in women's basketball, and I doubt there will be anymore interest in soccer. "Soccer moms" are not soccer fans, they are fans of their children. From what I have observed the WNBA is much more a father-daughter experience than mother-daughter.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 10:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
From what I have observed the WNBA is much more a father-daughter experience than mother-daughter.

Have they ever targeted that specific group with advertising? Not the generic 'families', but just dad-daughter. Because I noticed that even in Tenerife for Worlds, never mind the WNBA - you'd see these big tattooed guys who'd scare the crap out of you in a dark alley but they're happily walking along holding the hand of their adorable little girls. It's one of the few places where women's sports have a positive crossover point. It's a sporting event, so the kind of thing guys are used to going to anyway; and women are the focus, so the daughters get to see positive role models and evidence that women can achieve these levels just as much as men can.

Plus if you can draw those groups you hit two positive demographics for the future - average male sports fans, and little girls who grow up to be your future audience/players.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 12:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
From what I have observed the WNBA is much more a father-daughter experience than mother-daughter.

Have they ever targeted that specific group with advertising? Not the generic 'families', but just dad-daughter. Because I noticed that even in Tenerife for Worlds, never mind the WNBA - you'd see these big tattooed guys who'd scare the crap out of you in a dark alley but they're happily walking along holding the hand of their adorable little girls. It's one of the few places where women's sports have a positive crossover point. It's a sporting event, so the kind of thing guys are used to going to anyway; and women are the focus, so the daughters get to see positive role models and evidence that women can achieve these levels just as much as men can.

Plus if you can draw those groups you hit two positive demographics for the future - average male sports fans, and little girls who grow up to be your future audience/players.



Father's day was promoted as Dads and Daughters day though I don't recall whether there was TV advertising of that and I don't think they promoted anything else related to Dad's/Daughters.

I think the fact is they have tried just about everything over the last 20 years and we all know the results.


hyperetic



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PostPosted: 11/11/18 2:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Katie Nolan has issues with WNBA players not being paid enough

https://youtu.be/4kSwF2oAqVI
scrappy



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PostPosted: 11/16/18 2:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

just fold the league and suspend it for a couple years. as a matter of fact, players should start their own league, then they can pay whatever they think the deserve.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 11/16/18 5:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scrappy wrote:
just fold the league and suspend it for a couple years. as a matter of fact, players should start their own league, then they can pay whatever they think the deserve.


Or just bring back the ABL . They were fine before the NBA took over then gave up .



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/17/18 11:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
scrappy wrote:
just fold the league and suspend it for a couple years. as a matter of fact, players should start their own league, then they can pay whatever they think the deserve.


Or just bring back the ABL . They were fine before the NBA took over then gave up .


The ABL was never fine ... it was bleeding money from day one, in part because the player salaries were unrealistic.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 11/19/18 1:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
scrappy wrote:
just fold the league and suspend it for a couple years. as a matter of fact, players should start their own league, then they can pay whatever they think the deserve.


Or just bring back the ABL . They were fine before the NBA took over then gave up .


The ABL was never fine ... it was bleeding money from day one, in part because the player salaries were unrealistic.


So has the WNBA always has been without those ABL salaries .



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hyperetic



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PostPosted: 11/19/18 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think their request for a comparable percentage of the profits is not asking too much.
ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/19/18 2:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hyperetic wrote:
I think their request for a comparable percentage of the profits is not asking too much.


I think they're asking for a percentage of the revenue, which is somewhat different. If they got a percentage of the profits, they might not get paid at all.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 11/19/18 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA CBA Negotiations: Adam Silver, Terri Jackson Discuss The Stakes And The Grand Bargain
Quote:
Acting WNBA president Mark Tatum responded on ESPN's Outside The Lines last month that "the Players' Association has all of those financials. They have access to that. We’ve shared it with them, and what we are looking forward to doing is having a fully open, transparent and engaging discussion around the business realities that exist in the league.”
That would seem to be a difficult place from which to build trust, and weeks later, that problem has only deepened. As a league source put it, "between the professional staffs of the Players' Association and the league office, there is zero disagreement on financials."
Terri Jackson, executive director of the WNBPA, disagrees that there is zero disagreement.
"That would be an incorrect statement," Jackson said by email when asked about that quote.

Quote:
There are 12 WNBA team owners, whose teams collectively own 50% of the WNBA. The other 50% of the WNBA is owned, collectively, by the 30 NBA owners, through a company called "WNBA Holdings." What this means is that in order to sign off on any collective bargaining agreement, Silver needs to convince not only the WNBA owners who are directly affected by any changes, but also a majority of the 30 NBA owners, many of whom are involved with the league only in the sense that it appears as a single line item on their budget.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardmegdal/2018/11/19/wnba-cba-adam-silver-terri-jackson-discuss-stakes-and-the-grand-bargain/



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/19/18 9:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting article but some puzzling statements. For one - says the opt out means the CBA is in effect until the end of the 2020 season. That's wrong. It would be in effect until the end of the 2019 season. Second - it's a bit confusing when it says the 30 NBA teams own half of the WNBA. Does the WNBA exist as an organization aside from the teams? How are costs and revenues shared between the WNBA and the 30 NBA teams? Not really explained.

The upshot of it all seems to be that the "grand bargain" would entail giving the players a (big?)share of the "new" revenue source from gambling, twitter type deals, etc and it would be intended to get them to stay at home and skip overseas play. Hard to imagine that will happen but it would be nice if it did. That would allow expansion of the season, reduce injuries, reduce the endless stream of national team obligations players have to meet (at the expense of the WNBA) and get the players in the spotlight more throughout the year.

Forbes picking Megdal to write for them is interesting - he's not the most credible guy on the block though he has been right some of the time..... Laughing


ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/20/18 11:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's really interesting ... I had thought the NBA contributed to the funding of the league office, to the tune of several million dollars, but if the NBA actually owns half of the WNBA, it could explain a lot of things.

For example, if the NBA is absorbing half the losses, then it makes it much less painful to own a franchise (though of course they presumably take half the profits).

But that is also puzzling, because does the NBA own half of each franchise? Or a higher percentage, maybe all, in some others?

It does make sense, though, because the NBA definitely wants a monopoly on all professional basketball in North America (excluding college, of course), and this way it's a relatively inexpensive way of keeping a rival women's league from springing up -- which would surely happen if the WNBA folded.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 11/20/18 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Nneka Ogwumike: "we never get to see the numbers. We don't know how the league is doing."

Mark Tatum: "the Players' Association has all of those financials."

league source: "between the professional staffs of the Players' Association and the league office, there is zero disagreement on financials."

Terri Jackson: "As I’ve commented earlier in the week, we are awaiting complete information from the league."


pilight



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PostPosted: 12/04/18 9:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mark Cuban Is Wrong About Why WNBA Pay Is So Low

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-mark-cuban-wnba-pay_us_5c05a726e4b0cd916faef969

Quote:
the Sonics in 1970-71 were paying 63.5 percent of their revenue in player salaries



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 12/04/18 10:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

An interesting article ...

So one underlying assumption is that the WNBA owners are actually making a profit off of the league, and that profit -- or part of it -- should be going to the players.

This may or may not be true, but it doesn't seem likely to me. One issue, it seems to me, is the cost of the venues (as we've seen in New York). In general, the WNBA has opted to pay more for professional venues in order to upgrade its image, and the percentage of seats sold in those arenas is considerably less than the percentage of seats sold by the Sonics in their arena.

If we assume that the $60 million in revenue is correct, and the $18 million increase needed to get to 50% of revenue is correct, then each of the teams either has or would have to be able to find $1.5 million (on average) to give to the players.

If the teams are making $1.5 million in profit each year, they could give all of that money to the players, keeping none for themselves. More logically, and more fair, would be a 67%-33% split for the players -- which would require, according to my likely inaccurate mental math, a profit of $2.2 million or so per team.

But if each team were making $2.2 million per year, one would think a franchise like the Liberty would have value on the open market, but since no WNBA team has ever really been sold, that seems unlikely.

But let's say each team is making $1 million per year (which also seems unlikely given that franchises have no value). If they allocate $670,000 to the players, they still need to come up with $900,000 or so to get to the $1.5 million mark.

So what cuts in other expenses do teams make that saves/generates $900,000? My sense is that's a pretty huge operational cut, and there's not that much fat in any WNBA budget.

The bottom line, so to speak, is that if indeed the WNBA had money to spare to increase player salaries, its franchises would be profitable enough to generate investor interest. But since there is no investor interest, it seems highly unlikely that there is that much profit being generated, or that there is that much excess spending in administrative and operational costs.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 12/04/18 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the coaches are getting too much money or some of them as it seems relative to the season and the fact that some are getting more than double the top players.


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